OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Topic: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING! (Read 2642 times) previous topic - next topic

OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

May 26, 2014, 12:10:53 am

I must confess, I have read quite a few threads dealing with steering box problems. With my to do list sooooooo long, but shrinking, I have always felt a sigh of relief that my steering box was just fine, and I would NOT have to deal with that problem, THANK GOD!

Today I started the coach and the generator for a last look see before I ventured out this summer camping.

There it was, the dreaded drip from the steering box, a few drips and a groan from the steering wheel when I turned it, and then a few more pronounced drips.

I think I will be spending some time with the search function.
At this rate I will have a brand new 95 Foretravel in a few years, One piece at a time.
MAN vs MACHINE!
I can't let it win!
The eventual VICTORY will be sweet!

Does it EVER END!

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #1 – May 26, 2014, 01:39:00 am

Well .... I think we are ALL on our way to a brand new machine ... one piece at a time. That's just the way it goes. We have a lot of fun between pieces!

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #2 – May 26, 2014, 09:10:13 am

Mine leaks a bit too. I put some oil-dry cat litter like stuff on the floor of the compartment under the driver. It catches most of the occasional drips. Check hydraulic oil level. Make sure your left and right steering stops are set correctly. Mine was just hitting the right stop which make the pressure go up and will eventually make the top seal fail as I read here. Pretty easy adjustment.

Roger

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #3 – May 26, 2014, 10:09:09 pm

Kinda reminds me of the old Johnny Cash song about the Cadillac that was built "one piece at a time" With these older machines, it gets quite challenging to come up with the proper replacement parts. As long as it works and doesn't look weird, it's probably OK. Have a great day ---- Fritz

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #4 – May 27, 2014, 04:41:10 am

I bought a 5 quart jug of Valvoline High Mileage 10-40 synthetic blend oil. I'm hoping (WISHFULL!) that the properties in the high mileage formula will swell the seals enough to slow the leak.
I doubt it will help, but I have to add or change the oil anyway, so might as well give it a try.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #5 – May 27, 2014, 05:46:48 am

Lon it has been my experience in the past that leaking seals just need to be replaced, although Barrs Leak make some good products for a short term fix. Also the molecular structure of synthetic oil is smaller than natural oil, and as such will leak past seals quicker. If you have not been running synthetic oil in the system and change it over now it will likely leak worse.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #6 – May 27, 2014, 06:30:54 am

If your leak is primarily when the coach is parked and not running, and it has almost always been parked with the front wheels straight try parking with the steering wheels turned just slightly to the right or left. This will position the pitman arm at a different spot on the seal. I was able to buy some time before I did my seal repair by doing this. Because we almost always park with the front wheels straight the weight of the pitman arm collapses that area of the seal and causes it to go out of round. This worked for me for about a year and then I replaced the seals. Good Luck.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #7 – May 27, 2014, 08:31:48 am

When my steering box leaked I tried the Lucas stop leak product. Didn't help a bit.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #8 – May 27, 2014, 09:00:26 am

As already alluded to improperly adjusted steering stops which allow the steering knuckle to hit the axle stop (instead of their being a gap, with the Sheppard box stops providing maximum angle) causes extreme high pressure and is probably the primary cause of seal failure.

This is easily adjusted with the two tiny screws on the exterior of the Sheppard box and/or adjusting the steering stops themselves.

Basically, the steering stops should be adjusted to prevent tires from contacting body or suspension components at maximum turn angles. Then use the Sheppard adjusters to provide a 1/8- 1/4" gap between knuckle and stop. Sophisticated tools include wrench for steering stop and small standard screwdriver for the Sheppard box.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #9 – May 27, 2014, 09:06:42 am

The first sign of leakage from our steering gear was a puddle on the ground when I parked the coach to check in to a campground. The puddle was about two inches across. I topped the oil reservoir with oil about every 200 miles. It required about one quart every 200 miles. I traveled about 1800 miles to finish a trip and get to FOT. The leak was on the Pitman arm side and required a rebuilt steering gear.

The second seal failure was sudden and severe. We dropped about 3 1/2 gallons of oil in less than 50 miles. I think most of the oil was lost in about 10 miles. That was a "show stopper." Fortunately we were very close to our destination. We were able to drive in. Our destination was only three blocks from a repair facility. Repair required a new seal and did not require removal of the steering gear. I think that type of failure is relatively rare.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #10 – May 27, 2014, 11:29:13 am

Ho ho, so it's going around is it?

Discovered mine while parking at home after the most recent FT rally....only leaks when running, not going on any more trips til she's fixed. Going to have Paul Y. take care of this "little issue".....and just when I thought most of the "bugs" were getting worked out! Parts for the rebuild to be ordered this week.

Good tip about a pan of kitty litter in that compartment, she's starting to leak in 2 separate places, never a dull moment I guess! (by the way the love bugs absolutely LOVE the drippings!)

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #11 – May 27, 2014, 11:39:31 am

I looked at our steering gear and was not sure where the shepard adjustment is made. I reviewed the service manual, with little help. Any specific help is appreciated. Any old posted photos could be helpful.

I did see the stops at the king pin area.

I know turning in clockwise will cause relief valve to open earlier and there are probably adjustments on top and bottom of gear box. Top has steering column and is hard to see, bottom is completely in the open.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #12 – May 27, 2014, 11:59:56 am

Barry,

One of the tiny exterior adjustment/limit screws are on the top (where steering column shaft comes down from the steering wheel AND on the other one is on the bottom.

They are in small recesses. Use a mirror if you can't get directly over (for top) and under (for bottom) one.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #13 – May 27, 2014, 12:03:43 pm

From Brett Wolfe

"First thing to do is verify that you do have a gap between the axle stop on the steering knuckle and the axle on full steering wheel turns. Takes no tools to verify this-- just someone to to turn the wheel with the engine going and someone to look for the gap. 1/8" is the very minimum clearance.

If no clearance (i.e. the steering knuckle axle stop can contact the axle-- metal to metal) hydraulic pressures sky rocket and will surely blow seals.

And even the adjustment is easy-- small standard screwdriver on the small screw on the bottom and top of the Sheppard M100 box. Screwing IN lessens steering cut angle, OUT increases cut angle. Top screw does one direction/bottom the other-- sorry don't remember which does which, but turning either a full turn will show you which direction is affected.

Brett"

Bottom screw is for right turns, clearance on the right stop. Upper screw is for the left.

Mine was the right turn, the easy one. About 1-1/2 turns in reduces the cut angle and increases the gap size. "In" is turning the screwdriver clockwise.

Hope that helps.

Search for "steering stop". There are videos from Shepard that show the adjustment. They don't work on an iPad. I thought there was something on Barry's site but I can't find it.

Try this adjustment before rebuilding. I think I read that hitting the stops hard will blow out the top seal. That is where mine leaks. Not much though, I have added a quart or so in the last two years. My oil dry gets spotted but no drips on the ground anymore.

Roger

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #14 – May 27, 2014, 01:17:58 pm

Thanks for the quick replies. We can do this. . .

After I asked, I dug deeper, and found info and a video on the topic.
The first PDF is the cover of the manual where I found the 2nd PDF pages.
The great youtube link is from BeamAlarm.com.

Relief Plunger Adjustments & Repair - YouTube

Does our age coach does not have the auto-stop feature?
Can we make axle stop adjustments without lifting front axle?

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #15 – May 27, 2014, 01:25:57 pm

Barry,

Good video. Foretravels (at least all I have worked) on have MANUAL, not AUTOMATIC plungers so be sure to follow the manual section.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #16 – May 27, 2014, 01:45:32 pm

I have two 12 ton stubby hydraulic bottle jacks, put one at each end of the axle and lifted it just enough that the tires cleared. Put on my wheel chocks on the back end. It made it easy to turn each way to see what clearance i had without the loads from just turning on the ground. I used a mirror on an extendable arm and a flashlight to have look-see.

The bottom screw adjustment was easily accessible at normal ride height but easier and safer with safety tubes in place.

Roger

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #17 – May 28, 2014, 05:56:00 am

Quote from: Gerry Vicha – May 27, 2014, 06:30:54 am

If your leak is primarily when the coach is parked and not running, and it has almost always been parked with the front wheels straight try parking with the steering wheels turned just slightly to the right or left. This will position the pitman arm at a different spot on the seal. I was able to buy some time before I did my seal repair by doing this. Because we almost always park with the front wheels straight the weight of the pitman arm collapses that area of the seal and causes it to go out of round. This worked for me for about a year and then I replaced the seals. Good Luck.

Wheels are always straight when parked. I will turn the wheels this weekend.
Thanks for the tip!
Maybe its telling me to "take me someplace!"
I will also check the travel adjustment.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #18 – May 28, 2014, 05:43:34 pm

A seal kit is a very inexpensive fix for this problem and will save thousands down the road.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #19 – May 28, 2014, 07:39:43 pm

Roger,

Did you adjust/check axle stop with tires just off the ground?

And did you also adjust Sheppard manual adjustments with tires just off the ground?
Sheppard directions say to adjust steering gear with wheels back on ground.
Do you think it makes a difference with wheels off the ground?

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #20 – May 28, 2014, 10:48:50 pm

I first drove the front wheels onto a couple layers of cardboard. It sort of made turning easier. Left looked OK. Right looked very close to a hard stop. I had not seen the instructions just description of what to so from the forum. My goal was to make it easier to turn left and right without excessive loads on the mechanism or scuffing up the tires. I went up till they were just clear of the ground. I doubt I could have gotten a piece of cardboard under the tires. Made the adjustment. Checked right and left. I had a good 1/4" each way.

I'm not sure how on or off the ground would make much difference as far as clearance is concerned. But loads in the steering system mechanics and hydraulics would be more realistic on the ground.

I have not turned hard left and right sitting on the ground to see clearance under load after making adjustments. Maybe I should. A couple sheets of HDPE plastic under each front wheel might be slippery enough to ease the turning loads. Maybe some formica. Maybe I will just wait till a winter when there is some snow and ice on the road out from the barn.

They can probably do this when they set alignment with the wheels on a lazy susan sort of thing.

In any case, leaking is now minimal. Some damp spots in the oil-dry but none on the ground.

Roger

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #21 – May 30, 2014, 08:41:00 am

If this issue is found on PDI visit what dollar value are we talking for seal repair?

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #22 – May 30, 2014, 09:16:05 am

I wonder how much steering travel might be induced by bump steer (i.e. when suspension moves to it's travel limits) ?
I know you're never going very fast at maximum steering wheel angles but you might be traveling over uneven terrain like in driveway dip where left wheel suspension is extended and right wheel is compressed. This would be a good reason to keep that extra 1/4" of clearance with the hard stop.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #23 – May 30, 2014, 09:34:14 am

You can make a grease plate out of two pieces of thin metal ( or other hard material), grease it well between the sheets.
Drive on and with weight on wheels it will steer easy for a maintenance check.

Re: OMG, NOW THE STEERING BOX is DRIPPING!

Reply #24 – May 30, 2014, 10:32:48 am

Good idea, Thanks. I have plenty of Formica scrap. I'll try some grease.

Since all of this came up I am more aware of hard left and right turns. They are not needed very often so i tend to not go all the way if I can avoid it.

Roger

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