Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Topic: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa, (Read 1345 times) previous topic - next topic

Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

June 16, 2014, 02:01:56 am

Ladies and Gentlemen,

You must be sick of me by now, But I now have another Problem That I cant figure out,

My Windscreen moves sideways, Back and Forth, Both wipers actually move in and go over the Centre Rubber that divides the two Screens,

Then they move outwards so there is a big gap between the centre and the wiper blades,

It has now smashed my left hand windscreen,

The Bulkhead stays under the coach look like they are solid and no rust or movement, No rotting timber anywhere I have looked,

I have had the dash remade by the conversion company in California, From left to right hand drive,

I think this may be the problem, As there are no continuous stays across the dash from side to side, as per Piccys,

There is nothing there to hold the window frames apart, The sides of the Coach at the bottom of the Screen move into the Coach, Flex would be a better description,

I have no idea on what it should look like, or if there is something missing, To support the Sides of the Coach moving inwards, and then back outwards, Putting pressure on the screens both sides,
The windscreen is popping out of the Rubbers at the outside edges,
The wipers are over the centre at the same time,

I would love to see a Blueprint of what this frame originally looked like, As I cant find one any where, Or a piccy of when it was being built, I could manufacture something that would repair this problem,

Or even an inside measurement that I could check against mine, Between the base of the two screens across the inside of the Coach,
Or a Piccy of some one elses Grand Villa with the Dash up, so I can see what is missing from in there, and how it was fixed in originally,

Thanks in advance,,
Brian

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #1 – June 16, 2014, 02:08:37 am

A few more piccys of the windscreen from the outside, You can see how the screen has moved,

Its popping out of the Frame, on both sides, and still over the centre line in the middle,

Its got me scratching my head,

Its still a Great Coach, I love it,

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #2 – June 16, 2014, 02:10:18 am

Both sides need to be pushed out and anchored, so that it wont move sideways, in Travel Mode,

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #3 – June 16, 2014, 02:11:08 am

Both sides need to be pushed out and anchored, so that it wont move sideways, in Travel Mode,

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #4 – June 16, 2014, 12:09:51 pm

Brian, surely if you email James Triana at FT he can send you some measurements of what it should be and drwgs! It is not as though you live a few hrs from factory and can take it there. Maybe in the refit in Calif' they had to cut too much away without any thought of "cross strength" to hold window support??
JohnH

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #5 – June 16, 2014, 01:42:33 pm

Do these model coaches have the nose cap glued to the frame around the windshield opening lilt the bus front coaches?
This sounds like a loose cap.
Maybe a James Triana question.

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #6 – June 16, 2014, 05:04:42 pm

For whatever it's worth, I had similar issues in the past and was told that by using the levelers side to side was causing the coach to twist and resulted in the windshield looking like yours. I had a cracked drivers side replaced and the both resealed at the factory. Since then I've been extra careful when leveling the old girl and haven't had a problem since.

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #7 – June 16, 2014, 06:06:35 pm

Oh, Oh, Brian! I was just looking at your last set of piccys. The very first one shows the center weatherstrip off-center to the fiberglass down below the windshield. And I do mean WAY OFF-CENTER. At first I thought someone had replaced your right-hand wiper blade with a longer one. Not the case! Both windshields are way over towards the right side of your coach. Get them back on center. What I think happened is your coach got really twisted coming up your drive when you got stuck and the windshields moved.

I also looked at your pics of under the dash and did not see any difference from our coach except the whole thing is reversed.

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #8 – June 16, 2014, 07:17:52 pm

I sent Brian's posting to an expert and his comments did not pin point anything specific, but here is what he had to say:

Those '89 GV coaches were bad about movement anyway.

Can't be much help, without being there to see where the flexing starts.

A bulkhead brace, bonded to the cap, to support the front cap just below the windshields would be my first thought, without knowing what was modified.

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #9 – June 16, 2014, 09:06:21 pm

Your right there, I cant just drop into Foretravel and get them to look at it, Hahahahaha,

When I bought my Coach, I didnt know any thing about it, But now, Maybe, I could have sent it to Foretravel to do the R/Hand conversion, As the coach was just up the road from Nacochodges, 100 miles or so, In Gladewater, Texas,

But it has been doing it since I got it, at times, Both wipers have been at least an inch and a half away from the centre rubber, and then come back and are over the centre rubber,

The wipers have been touching each other in the centre,

Coming up the drive just squeezed it all together and cracked the screen, Just loaded it up too much, Some thing had to give,
I just assumed that the Coach had twisted, But I dont think it did now, as the doors both opened easy when it was on the angle, Bogged on the drive,

I have no problems repairing it all, I have the all gear, and the skills required, I just dont have any information on what is missing from in there,

It may even be the centre of the windscreen moving in and out, At the base of the screen at the centre, As when I eyeball the sides of the Coach, they look straight, Not bowed out at all, which they should do if the sides are moving out,

It definately needs jacking apart, and being anchored so it wont move, The nearest Grand Villa to me is in Queensland, 1000 miles to the north, So I just cant look at another one to see the problem, But they are all right hand drive too, So that defeats the purpose,

I havent been using the levellors, I just park on flat level ground, So that hasnt been a problem,

I think the dash originally was a solid piece going across that held the base of the windscreens in position,

I didnt think that Foretravel would be interested in helping me, as my Coach is so old, But I will send them an email and ask them for help, Its worth a try,

I do want to travel in my Coach for about 10 years when I get it all totally reliable, This is a big country with nothing in the middle of it, and no help any where, so Its fix it myself,

I seriously dont think that the front cap is moving, It all seems very solid,

I appreciate all your good advice and ideas, It gives me some thing to think about, And different ways to approach the problem and the remedial work I need to do,

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #10 – June 16, 2014, 09:35:43 pm

Brian,
I just went out a took some pics for you. My front nose piece inside is one piece and the access panel is one price as well. Inside the access there are two wood support piece the run front to back on the right and left side but nothing in the middle.

I hope this helps....BTW because of your pics I never knew the caps over the gear shift and side panel opened

learning things all the time lol
Jeff

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #11 – June 16, 2014, 10:08:17 pm

Brian, my dash is just like Jeff's construction. I am just lousy at taking pictures.

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #12 – June 16, 2014, 11:40:53 pm

I'm wondering if your frame is bent? We know the midnight driveway incident caused your windshield damage but did everything else go back to the straight condition?
I would put the coach on level ground and start measuring diagonals where you can:
- Start on the interior just behind the driver/passenger seats from wall/floor corner to wall/ceiling corner.
- Suspension points on let side and right side to ground.
- Diagonal across the front bulkhead (the one that the dash A/C unit is mounted through.
(I'm sure you get the idea)

You'll have to take into consideration un-even loading (I think I remember that you've done some customizations in the compartments), but I would use where the body is over the rear axle as your reference (i.e. if right is 1" low at rear axle then, if the coach is straight, the right should be low by 1" at front axle).

I'm not familiar with the Oshkosh but I would inspect the body to frame connection points in the front to look for damage.
I would also consider if the (now out of position) windscreens are holding the fiberglass framing around the window out of whack - might need to remove them to see if it's still square.
I believe the windscreen seal is to be bonded to the fiberglass and the windscreen is to free float without adhesive in the seal.

By the way, we all talk about chassis twist. I think a better term is tweak (I have know idea what the best term might be in aussie speak). The cross-section of a tweaked body looks like a parallelogram.
Ok here's a good laugh for everyone, but a good visualization of this is a saltine box (pretty good proportions to a motorhome). I drew a line down the center of the box end with the main flaps at top and bottom. I opened the end and tweak the box by placing it on a block in one corner - the same corner that was lifted on Brian's coach in the driveway. The top flat acts like the windscreen and you can see it's shifted to the left side - just like on Brian's coach. It's interesting to note that the walls of the box are relatively flat compared to how much shift there is in the flaps on the front face. Diagonal measurements are the best way to determine how much tweak there is.

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #13 – June 17, 2014, 07:52:59 am

In the good news department, the fact that the doors are still operating properly give hope that this is a front cap problem rather than a major structural issue. I do think that using John's technique for establishing a baseline is good, would even expand on it a bit by then extending some lines forward off the outside sidewalls, strike a right angle line measured from axles, and start comparing measurements to measured points on the front cap to see how much, if any, it has shifted. Front cap movement can cause a surprising amount of problems when it happens. There is not a whole lot holding it in place, and possible to shear glue bonds, had to rebond mine (bus style), windshield popped out of gasket. I could not see a problem from outside just looking at it. Foretravel spotted it instantly. I found that tapping on the fiberglass in areas where it is supposed to be bonded to framework readily indicates where bond is suspect.

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #14 – June 17, 2014, 08:46:09 am

Brian, I have only just come back onto the forum and seen your problem, If you need me to look or photograph something on mine , just give me a yell. Your photos look just like mine except where the wipers are crossing over. I will crawl over mine coach tomorrow and see what i can for you.
Ian

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #15 – June 17, 2014, 08:57:15 am

Brian, just looking again at your photos, and your rubbers are in bad condition. I have learnt that the screens are a main support for the pod. When my screen was out the whole front moved and had to be realigned as the new one was fitted. it took three blokes to do it. Ralph Moore in Sydney has had some experience in these as he has been involved in the rebuild of one that hit a tree. Anyway yell if i can help.

Ian

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #16 – June 17, 2014, 10:27:08 am

Quote from: danieljeff545 – June 16, 2014, 09:35:43 pm

Brian,
I just went out a took some pics for you. My front nose piece inside is one piece and the access panel is one price as well. Inside the access there are two wood support piece the run front to back on the right and left side but nothing in the middle.

I hope this helps....BTW because of your pics I never knew the caps over the gear shift and side panel opened learning things all the time lol
Jeff

As long as it helps some one to know their Coach better is all good, I am pleased you found the flaps lift up,

Its all give and take, Preferably Give on my part, I do like to help people when I can,
Thanks for the Piccys, It makes it easier for me to see what the original one looked like, As I dont have a clue on it,

I think I am missing a couple of wood blocks at the end of the dash, Under the lift up flaps, What is behind your plastic dash,
Is there a backing plate of some kind, or is it just the plastic that the switches and gauges sit on,

Ians has been converted, so his is the same as mine, Unfortunately, I need the original Measurements from a Coach that hasnt been altered,

Could you please measure yours across the top of the dash from the bottom corners of the windscreens, in a straight line,
A continual measurement between the two corners, at the bottom,

If possible,
A line straight across from the two corners of the base of the screens, and then in the centre of the dash, a line from the base of the centre of the screens back to the straight line,

That will give me some thing concrete to work too, It will pick out the faults on mine, or where I am differing in measurements from yours,
Thanks Jeff,

Ian, My rubbers are Totally Cactus, I am just waiting for a price from Gaurdian in Oregon to get back to me with the prices for the screen and rubbers inclusive, Plus all costs involved to ship it to me,

I got your price on your rubbers, I will see what Gaurdian have to offer first, Thanks Mate, I may still get back to you on them,

I will buy a vacuum clamp and fit it myself, I almost had the right one in, but couldnt get the last 2 inches with out a Sucker, It was going to fit perfectly, I learn from my mistakes,

The bloke that installed mine, could not understand the way it has to be fitted and cut the windscreen to make it fit, Making it loose when its fitted in place,
He wont be doing the next one,

It has to be put in under the top cap and then slid sideways towards the middle, Its very easy when you figure it out,
Its only a one man job, I made a scaffold to stand on, So its at waist height, Easy Peasy for me to do,

More info later, Back soon,

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #17 – June 18, 2014, 12:20:00 am

Brian, check your email. I sent you a PM with measurements

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #18 – June 18, 2014, 04:34:04 am

Brian, i am no expert but it looks to me that by trimming the screen you have altered the strength of the support to the pod. Just like in a regular coach, the glass holds the front of the vehicle in shape. This may be your problem. The guy in Sydney said that he had to make a jig to hold the front together when he fixed a vehicle with both screen removed. It took quite a bit of tweeking to get the to go back in.

Ian

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #19 – June 18, 2014, 08:34:20 am

Thanks Nitehawk!! I'm stuck working and wouldn't be able to do it for him till Friday.

Brian...keep us updated I'm interested in your resolution! Good Luck Mate!! BTW I saw a video on Youtube that i believe your friend took of the GV coming up your driveway...Impressive!

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #20 – June 18, 2014, 10:43:43 am

Might also bear in mind that Foretravel beds the glass with adhesive sealant inside and outside the gasket, at least they did on my coach. No problems since this was done.

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #21 – June 18, 2014, 12:31:57 pm

Quote from: danieljeff545 – June 18, 2014, 08:34:20 am

Thanks Nitehawk!! I'm stuck working and wouldn't be able to do it for him till Friday.

Brian...keep us updated I'm interested in your resolution! Good Luck Mate!! BTW I saw a video on Youtube that i believe your friend took of the GV coming up your driveway...Impressive!

That was not impressive to me,
I was scared out of my wits, I dont get Fazed easily either, I had only driven it from the docks, approx 60 miles,
Never driven anything like it before, It was also the first time I had seen it, I bought it sight unseen from Texas, 8 months previously,
I only had the MR licence about two months or so,
It had already blown the hoses on the steering, Before I could drive it home, i had to replace them at the Docks,,
I had no idea whether it would go up my drive, or not,
If it stalled coming up, would the brakes hold,
It was flat chat all the way, Just in case, Hahahaha.
But it was doing it so easy, I backed it off as I hit the the top,

Unknown entity, Here I am putting it to the extreme test, Nothing to stop it if the brakes failed, Its all downhill behind the Coach,
Had a good sit down for a while after it,

Very pleased you like the video, Rod got it great, He is a tow truck driver, and wanted it all on video if some thing went wrong, He came with me to pick it up from the Docks,

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #22 – June 18, 2014, 01:27:13 pm

Quote from: danieljeff545 – June 18, 2014, 08:34:20 am

BTW I saw a video on Youtube that i believe your friend took of the GV coming up your driveway...Impressive!

What is the title? I looked all over Youtube and could not find it.

Thanks,

Trent

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #23 – June 18, 2014, 01:45:05 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – June 18, 2014, 12:20:00 am

Brian, check your email. I sent you a PM with measurements

Thanks for your effort Keith, I got your email, The measurements across the Coach, and to the front of the bottom of the screen are exactly what you have, Or very very close, The pointy bit in the centre, could possibly go out a further 1/4 inch, That would bring the corners back in line, Just from looking at it,

The box frames holding it all square, on top of the chassis, I will clamp down and weld them in place, The angle cross member has a slot cut in it that could allow it to bend, I will weld a plate over it, That will take any flex it might have out of it,

I do have a very slight ripple in the timber under the screen in the front of the coach, where the timber support under the front of the dash ends,
It may have had a slight front end stack at some time, Not that you would notice, unless your looking very hard,

Every thing in there is very solid, No rust evident anywhere, The caps are all lined up and no gaps any where they join,

I am tending to go with Ians suggestion, That cutting the windscreen has made it float around as there is nothing to hold it in,
I dont think the bloke that installed it, put the square blocks of rubber back in either,

I will do that Chuck, Thank you, Glue it all in, I do think that the screen is a structural member in the scheme of things,

I was ignorant at the time, and he was a professional installer, So I left it in his hands, But I had tried to fit it my self before that, So I did have some idea on installing it,
I tried to tell him that it didnt fit by laying it on top of the frame, It had to go under the top cap first, Thats the way it was designed, But he wouldnt listen,
And I didnt want to take the risk of damaging a $3200-00 windscreen, One side only,

Live and learn, I do know now, But it was an expensive lesson, I will fit the new one myself, and put all the rubbers back in,
I am in the process of importing it myself direct from Guardian in Oregon, Retail, is still a saving of
approximately $800-00 from last time, Including all the rubbers, Air shipping is over the top, expensive, About $2400-00 AUD Total delivered,

Been a bit slow doing this, A few problems on the side, Looks like I will have to get my shoulder pinned, as its not Healing, It crunches as the bones grind together, I am over being a cripple,
The Intervention order I had with the Ex, She has broken it, and I have had to lodge a complaint with the Police, and she looks like she will be charged, Narcistic Schicopath. Control Freak, She just wont let go, I hate putting people in, Its just not me, It makes my skin crawl just thinking about it,

My Boat repairer has just announced for the 6th or 7th time that my vessel will be ready to go back in the Ocean before the end of July, I hope so, I can start living again, My lifes on hold till I get the boat back, Sail it around OZ, then sell it, then I can afford to drive my Coach around OZ, Permanently Retired with cash in my pocket again, In a Grouse Coach, That I love Dearly,

Looking forward to it,
Another Utube Video I starred in, Crossing the Tasman in a Gemini, I sailed it back from Fiji, singlehanded, That was a hell of an achievement for me, I am not a sailor by any stretch of the imagination, I spent six weeks in Fiji learning how to sail it first, Hahahahaha. All the electronic Gizmos, I learnt in a day and a half from the PO. I didnt even know how to turn it on, I got chucked up on the rocks at anchor in a very bad storm, I was asleep at the time,

Re: Floating Windscreen on my Grand Villa,

Reply #24 – June 18, 2014, 02:48:47 pm

Quote from: TulsaTrent – June 18, 2014, 01:27:13 pm

What is the title? I looked all over Youtube and could not find it.

Thanks,

Trent

I just spent an hour looking for it, I cant even remember what it was Called, Rods Video of Brian coming up the drive,
Brians new Bus,
Or some thing like that, If I find it I will post it up for you,

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