No start

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No start

June 23, 2014, 12:21:38 pm

Started the coach this morning, and all was fine. Got to the end of the driveway and needed to shut down for a bit. When I went to restart, nothing. That was 90 minutes ago. I've had the generator going for the a/c, and the boost switch is on. There is no light on the boos switch, so I don't know if the batteries are connected or not. The dash gauge shows about 10.5 volts, but a meter directly on the start batteries shows 12.55 volts. Battery connections are tight.

Question: could I safely attach jumper cables from the Jeep to the start batteries and maybe get the coach going that way?

Re: No start

Reply #1 – June 23, 2014, 12:28:52 pm

I have done that on my 270 and 320 in. The past

Re: No start

Reply #2 – June 23, 2014, 12:39:06 pm

Is the engine even trying to turn over and just won't start or not? Possibly try jumpering the starter solenoid.

Is the engine getting fuel? Could be the fuel solenoid not opening.

Re: No start

Reply #3 – June 23, 2014, 12:43:41 pm

If no clicking = ignition solenoid may be bad. Or, your battery connections are loose. Do try jumping the ignition solenoid to see if the batteries are well connected.

You do not state whether there is any clicking or cranking of the starter and the fuel just will not fire up.

ps: test the battery isolator. If you do not know how to do this, ask.

Re: No start

Reply #4 – June 23, 2014, 12:49:23 pm

Yes you can always jump the start batteries from you car.

If motorhome starts, you know it is probably a battery issue.

Safe jump sequence, jeep positive post, motorhome positive post, motorhome negative post, jeep ground point to some place away from battery (to keep spark away from Jeep battery).

Keep Jeep running before and after jump, disconnect in reverse sequence.

Often better to let jumper connections in place for a while (15-30 minutes) to let motorhome battery recharge, as it is needed to crank motorhome. Jeep battery and long cables may not be enough to crank motorhome if battery is very low.

Re: No start

Reply #5 – June 23, 2014, 12:54:47 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – June 23, 2014, 12:21:38 pm

Started the coach this morning, and all was fine. Got to the end of the driveway and needed to shut down for a bit. When I went to restart, nothing. That was 90 minutes ago. I've had the generator going for the a/c, and the boost switch is on. There is no light on the boos switch, so I don't know if the batteries are connected or not. The dash gauge shows about 10.5 volts, but a meter directly on the start batteries shows 12.55 volts. Battery connections are tight.

Question: could I safely attach jumper cables from the Jeep to the start batteries and maybe get the coach going that way?

David,

The problem is probably somewhere between the start batteries and the starter. Would recommending pulling all terminal connections, cleaning even using a file to clean and flatten the cable ends. See my post from several years ago. Pop dash top open and check voltage on the big terminal of the ignition solenoid on the left (outside). Voltage should be around the battery voltage. Check voltage on the same terminal with the ignition switch in the start position. If voltage drops way down, the problem is back at the start batteries. Again, pull all terminals, clean the six battery posts, male and female, pull cables and clean and flatten ends with a file until shiny copper color.

Pierce

Re: No start

Reply #6 – June 23, 2014, 01:00:47 pm

David,

Here are three photos of what it should look like after done. I also installed an extra ground cable from the negative side to the closest ground. Also installed all stainless hardware including stainless nylocks.

Pierce

Re: No start

Reply #7 – June 23, 2014, 01:05:07 pm

I had this issue with our U225 this spring. It turned out to be a solenoid on the isolator board behind the driver-side rear wheel in the engine area. There are three solenoids in our starting system: one in the dashboard; one on the isolator board; and one on the starter itself. We solved the issue by turning on the ignition key and then jumping the two large terminals on the isolator-board-mounted solenoid. This energized the starter (it makes you jump!) and once the engine starts just remove the jumper. (Don't leave the jumper connected as the starter will continue to operate while the engine runs.)

Replaced the solenoid with a new - water protected - one from Amazon for about $35.

And yes, you can jump the system from the car.

Craig

Re: No start

Reply #8 – June 23, 2014, 01:06:35 pm

David,

Congratulations! Good talking to you. Glad you got it going. Thought the connections were the problem. Have a safe trip!!!

Great phone message! Wie dem auch sei, gute Reise.

Pierce

Re: No start

Reply #9 – June 23, 2014, 02:09:11 pm

Successfully that is

Re: No start

Reply #10 – June 23, 2014, 07:21:21 pm

Everyone has sent you all good advise and it could be anyone of those items I would first start with the negative battery connections. Since you are getting some voltage, I'm suspect of the negative battery connection. I had the same problem only to find that what was a tight connection was not a good connection. Good Luck let us all know what the problem turned out to be.

Re: No start

Reply #11 – June 23, 2014, 08:50:04 pm

Quote from: joeszeidel – June 23, 2014, 07:21:21 pm

Everyone has sent you all good advise and it could be anyone of those items I would first start with the negative battery connections. Since you are getting some voltage, I'm suspect of the negative battery connection. I had the same problem only to find that what was a tight connection was not a good connection. Good Luck let us all know what the problem turned out to be.

David fixed it and is on the road to Nebraska now. Cleaning the battery hardware did the trick. I'm sure he will thank everyone for their concern.

Pierce

Re: No start

Reply #12 – June 24, 2014, 04:09:02 pm

Thanks to Pierce's long-distance repairs, and thanks to all of you who chimed in with advice. I had checked all of the battery connections to make sure they were tight, but didn't clean them. They didn't appear to be too bad, but a couple of minutes with the terminal cleaning brush did wonders. Good to know that I can jump from the Jeep if necessary.

I'm going to have some time here at the campground later this week, so I'm going to pick up a handful of stainless bolts and Nylock nuts and change all of them out. I might even get a couple of other small projects done this week, too.

Re: No start

Reply #13 – June 24, 2014, 10:00:38 pm

Mine wont start after sitting there since I got bogged on the drive.

It turns over very good, It makes no difference with jumper batterys on it, So I dont have a battery problem,

I have pumped diesel up to the injectors and bled them out, with the little tap on the top of the motor, and by cracking open the injectors, I have fuel to the injectors,

any suggestions,
I would also like to put a remote starter switch in the back, Which wires on the Starter do I hook up to the switch,
Any piccys on here where I could see what they connect to,

Which one is the fuel solenoid, Could that be dodgy, and how do I check it, that its working or not, Im no sparky,

Re: No start

Reply #14 – June 24, 2014, 11:55:41 pm

Quote from: MR B2 – June 24, 2014, 10:00:38 pm

Mine wont start after sitting there since I got bogged on the drive.

Which one is the fuel solenoid, Could that be dodgy, and how do I check it, that its working or not, Im no sparky,

I had to fill the fuel filter. The cat has a pump on top of the motor if memory serves me. Turn to loosen ball on top then pump?

I think it was where the filter is?

Re: No start

Reply #15 – June 24, 2014, 11:59:04 pm

Brian,

OK, my best guess. Don't know what engine you have but betting you were low on fuel when you got it stuck. The coach was leaned way over from looking at the photos and ran on the fuel in the filters. Now you have air in the system. You could pull a spin on filter and see how much fuel is in it. Sure way to get it running if you don't have a hand pump is to get another person, remove the fuel return line at the tank if you can reach it or the return line at the engine. Pressurize the fuel tank with only 2 or 3 psi until fuel comes out of the return line. You may have to have the key on so the fuel shutoff is open if you have one. Once you have the air out, replace the return line. Then loosen at least one injection pipe at the injector a turn or two. Crank the engine until it starts, shut it off and then tighten the injector pipe. If you have a hand pump, you don't have to pressurize the tank or remove the return line.

Coming up a steep driveway low on fuel, especially if tilted over, runs the risk of having the fuel pickup in the tank above the level of fuel. Just sucks air until the fuel in the filters is used up and then dies.

Don't crank on the starter for more than 20 seconds and let it rest for a few minutes before trying again.

Pierce

Re: No start

Reply #16 – June 25, 2014, 10:05:36 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – June 24, 2014, 11:59:04 pm

... Coming up a steep driveway low on fuel, especially if tilted over, runs the risk of having the fuel pickup in the tank above the level of fuel. Just sucks air until the fuel in the filters is used up and then dies....

+1 on Pierce's suggestions. Years ago I embarked on an adventure in our '93 Dodge 1-ton farm truck which included descending a very steep slope with a fuel tank that was only about 1/4 full. The result was that air got sucked into the fuel system. Luckily the fuel lines on that pickup are short and I was able to get the air out without a lot of other issues.

Pierce's suggestions about how to cure the issue are spot-on. I always try to choose the last injector in the line but maybe it's not much of an issue. As soon as the engine starts close the injector off and you're good to go.

The moral to my story was to not go up or down steep slopes with anything less than a pretty full tank of fuel.

Craig

Re: No start

Reply #17 – June 25, 2014, 10:25:55 am

My experience with the 3208 Cat.
We learned when stalled from lack of fuel or loss of prime how to start it real quick. After insuring that you do have fuel..... Driver pumps fuel primer as assistant ( DW ) cranks, started immediately, I never could just pump fuel at primer and then go to drivers seat and have it start. It is amazing what you can teach the DW to do if you remember who is really in charge.

Gary B

Re: No start

Reply #18 – June 25, 2014, 11:25:56 am

SO.......... now that you know she is in charge, is life not better ??

Re: No start

Reply #19 – June 25, 2014, 12:33:50 pm

It started it on the hill with no problems, I just didnt run it long enough when I got it up the hill and onto the flat surface where it now sits,
Normally I turn it around first before turning it off, That has so far worked on getting any air out of the lines, But it had been raining heavily, so to avoid getting bogged in my front yard, I just idled it for a bit, But not long enough, It seems,
I had half a tank full, But it still sucked air,

I dont have any one to help me, So that is why I was asking about installing a switch at the back to turn it over from the starter motor,
Its a 300 HP 3208 T Cat,

I have never owned or driven any thing like this Coach before, So its all a very steep learning curve for me,
It does get bogged easily with the road tyres on it,

I got it bogged on a wet dirt road, when I went away on one of my trips, Just going slow, and I swung out a bit to miss a low tree, and the rear of the Coach slid sideways about 6 feet, A tip truck pulled me out the next day, another 10 feet and I would have been back on solid rock again,

I left it there overnight as I couldnt see in the dark, 11-00 PM, and raining, It almost side swiped another R/V and a Caravan parked there,

We woke up in the morning, and all three of us were in a foot deep of water, The other R/V was also pulled out by the tipper, He came back later and pulled a 4 wheel drive and caravan out with a tractor, It was very sloppy,

Re: No start

Reply #20 – June 25, 2014, 04:25:26 pm

Brian,

That happened to another member who had a steep driveway so don't feel badly. He wondered why he had a hard time starting it the next day. Yes, good to bring it up to a thousand RPM for a minute or so to get all the air out. My tractor does the same thing. No fuel gauge so when it starts surging, I shut it down and add a couple of gallons. Sometimes takes a couple of minutes before it smooths out.

Our U300 has a button in the compartment that comes in handy. Not hard to run a duplex wire from the starter solenoid hot terminal back to a engine compartment switch and then connect the other wire to the small terminal on the starter. You could have a remote starter solenoid so be aware and just run the wires to it.

It does have a learning curve, especially when you are driving on the wrong side of the road.

The longer you drive it, it smaller it gets. Just takes a while to get comfortable.

Pierce

Re: No start

Reply #21 – June 25, 2014, 08:48:18 pm

Mr B, you can check if the fuel solenoid is getting power when the switch is turned on. I stands upright in the center of the engine side to side and near to the rear of the coach, front of the engine. If it is getting power and you think it is not opening, you can remove it and that will allow the engine to get fuel. To shut off the engine you would have to have the key off and reinstall the solenoid. Like Gary said if you could be pumping the primer pump and have someone crank it, it should start. You can use a remote start switch that puts power to the small wire on the starter

Re: No start

Reply #22 – June 25, 2014, 11:23:49 pm

Hahaha, I am very comfortable driving it, Its magic to drive, But we have very skinny roads here,

I have had to back it up a few times and have another go at getting it around the corners,

The left rear is inches from the Rock wall, the mirrors are over the armourail on the right hand side, Any thing coming, Just has to wait till I am around the corner,

Are there any piccys of the Starter motor remote switch on here any where, Just the connections to the starter motor,
I can do the switch easily enough, Just where the wires connect too,

There are lots of thingys, on the motor that have wires coming out of them, I did replace a burnt out wire on one, No idea on what it does,
All my previous diesels, had a start switch, Thats it, very simple, I turned one off with the Injector pump lever, other wise it wouldnt stop, Mainly Perkins 3 cylinder motors,

Re: No start

Reply #23 – June 26, 2014, 10:43:17 am

Brian,

All diesels used to be really easy to turn on and off. It was a mechanical link to the pump or if a Detroit 2 cycle ran away, it had a flapper on the engine to push that blocked off the air.

The electronic engines today are stopped by turning off the key. The ECU (ECM) cuts power to the injectors and the engine stops. Mercedes has done it best for a while with a vacuum system for the engine, door locks, etc. The engine will run without a battery with a vacuum actuator used to shut off the fuel. They can even be coasted down a hill, pulled into first (yes, automatic transmission) and will start.

Most of the others use an electrical solenoid to open and let fuel into the injection pump. Down side is if the solenoid fails or the vehicle runs out of 12V, the engine stops.

So, you need a switch with wires to power the solenoid from the engine compartment along with a push button to the starter solenoid. You could even just use a clip-on remote start switch you buy at the auto parts store. Either side would go to the small solenoid terminal and the other to the big hot one next to it. I don't have a schematic for your rig but I have attached a PDF showing the arrangement for our U300. Go to the starter motor at the bottom of the page and follow wire B25 (red) to the starter. This is where a remote starter could be wired in with a single wire going to a push button in the engine compartment with the other side of the push button connected to the engine batteries (if they are back there). Have to be careful not to push if you have the kind of transmission that could be left in gear. If you have a remote starter solenoid, other members may be able to help with the location.

You could also just turn on the key and that will open the fuel shutoff solenoid so you would not have to wire in anything for the fuel.

Pierce

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