Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

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Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

July 24, 2014, 06:11:39 pm

Last two times we broke camp and hit the highway, we got a check engine light within minutes of starting out which extinguished itself before I could find a safe place to pull over (of course after making sure all the vital signs like oil pressure were okay and it did not indicate stop engine either time). VMSPC indicated high intake manifold temperature on both occasions (PID 105). The second time I was glancing at the VMSPC screen as we were starting out and noticed it was showing around 150f! Normally, it is 120f or less when I shut it down after a day's travel. My initial thought is that the intake preheat is staying on too long for some reason... So I am looking for guidance to see what steps I can take that won't interfere with our progress on the way to Canada. Any thoughts?
Currently, we are parked in a RV park just outside of Yellowstone NP. Got here too late in the day to get a site in YNP. Any Fofums nearby?
Don & Tys

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #1 – July 24, 2014, 06:51:59 pm

Don,

Once you get it started in the morning and warm, you could shut down, unplug the intake heater and then check temps while heading down the road. I know how cold it can be there even in summer. It snowed and was in the teens in June or July. We are in Yellowstone every other year so if you have any questions...

Pierce

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #2 – July 24, 2014, 08:19:50 pm

Actually, if you suspect the intake manifold heater is remaining on, just wire a test light or volt meter to the heater side of the heater relay or at the heat element itself. That will positively tell you from start up exactly when the heater is on.

BTW, you should see a major drop in voltage when the heater is on-- it is a very high amp 12 VDC heater element.

Brett

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #3 – July 24, 2014, 08:55:18 pm

Don,

Typically, hot screen heaters or glow plugs have timers with sensors for engine temperature and outside temperature. They will stay on much longer in cold weather and a cold engine. If you left shortly after starting, it could be normal operation. What was the overnight temperature?

Pierce

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #4 – July 24, 2014, 09:42:50 pm

Pierce,
The first time it happened, we were in Filmore, Utah. It had been idling forat least 5 minutes and I don't think the temperature went below 70f over night. It was at least 80f when we started out on both occasions, this morning from Pocatello, Idaho. Like I said, I noticed this morning before the CE light came on that VMSPC was showing 150f for the intake manifold. After the light went out, it was showing the usual between 112 and 125 or so.
Here in West Yellowstone at 7:30pm, it is windy as heck but still in the mid 60's. First thing I need to do is identify the manifold heater connections (shouldn't be too hard I would think). I suppose the ECM would throw a fit if I just disconnected the grid heater and started it... I need to do some more research! Just comes at a bad time (when does it not

).

Brett,
The test lamp sounds like a plausible check for the heater staying on, assuming I can find a place to put a test clip and extend the wire so I can see the test light from the front. Maybe I can use the extra wire bundle so I can put a light up by the dash... If all goes well and we can find a campsite in Mammoth Campground tomorrow morning, I will have time to try and rig something.
Thanks for the suggestions! Pierce, I would love to tap into your familiarity with YNP, but since I am a complete newbie here (first time ever!) and we will only have two days before heading out the north gate, I can hardly miss being amazed... This is a spur of the moment side trip for us this time. Next time, I will be better prepared to take advantage.
Don

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – July 24, 2014, 08:55:18 pm

Don,

Typically, hot screen heaters or glow plugs have timers with sensors for engine temperature and outside temperature. They will stay on much longer in cold weather and a cold engine. If you left shortly after starting, it could be normal operation. What was the overnight temperature?

Pierce

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #5 – July 24, 2014, 10:07:28 pm

Could be a bad temperature sensor. Might try cleaning sensor connectors.

Mammoth is our favorite campground. Nice older stone buildings in the village and hot springs at the river just outside the park. Lowest elevation in Yellowstone with good weather. Has excellent campsites with a lot pull through. Good distance between sites. 10 minute walk to the village.

Pierce

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #6 – July 25, 2014, 12:13:51 am

We really liked Madison as well. Close by to a lot of neat stuff, and Stubby the Macot Bison is enilivening entertainment.

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #7 – July 25, 2014, 12:21:06 am

I came across a Cummins fault code document and it says air intake restriction or inadequate air filter capacity might cause the temperature to rise too high. Since I changed the filter two days before the first occurrence, I thought maybe something got in there somehow. I took a look and the filter was fine and the restriction gauge hadn't moved. It does work, because I can put a vacuum to it and pinch the air tube and it holds the indicator until I reset it. I have attached a picture of the relevant page from the cummins doc.
Don

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #8 – July 25, 2014, 12:45:48 am

Don,

The gauge you looked at is not the sensor the ECU sees. Something else is triggering the problem. Another possibility is the high reading you saw is not correct and your intake temperature is normal but the sending unit is bad. Check the connection there. You can also check like Brett suggested to see if the heater is coming on. After reading about the engine going into shutdown mode, you need to talk to someone at Cummins. Should be a big one in Bozeman that can figure out what sender is out. Doubt if it is the ECU. Bozeman is only an hour and a half from Mammoth in Yellowstone. Why not give them a call tomorrow and make an appointment with Cummins for Monday and then enjoy the weekend in Yellowstone? They may have some insight over the phone. Cummins Rocky Mountain 800-332-7788

Pierce

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #9 – July 25, 2014, 10:53:19 am

My Silverleaf will show the temp getting up to 150 orzo when I start out. Usually about 144 in cold weather but as soon as we hit 170 on the engine it starts going down and it us normal by the tine the temp hit 180. Then I am just over ambient.

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #10 – July 25, 2014, 11:04:51 am

Slight correction on how the air filter minder is supposed to work.

Once it sees a vacuum-- even sucking lightly on its hose should peg the reading, it should hold that reading (pinching the hose could falsely tell you the gauge is reading correctly). The reading should hold until you push the release button. If you need to pinch the hose to retain the high restriction reading, the gauge is bad.

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #11 – July 25, 2014, 11:15:22 am

As Brett says, it should hold the reading until manually reset. The gauge will only reach the highest restriction under full throttle and full load conditions but should retain the reading. At idle or even opening the throttle momentarily will not show any restriction.

If you can read boost pressure, it will be lower with an air cleaner restriction. With lower boost pressure, the ECU will cut the fuel back a bit so the power will also be down not only because of less turbo boost but less fuel also.

Pierce

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #12 – July 25, 2014, 12:41:56 pm

Does your coach have a dash "wait to start" light like ours? It indicates when manifold heater is on.

Since intake air comes through turbo, which is driven by hot exhaust, could the air be extra hot because of intercooler not doing its job?

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #13 – July 25, 2014, 02:45:09 pm

Thanks for the ideas guys... The restriction gauge does hold its indication without pinching the line. Thanks for the clarification.
Barry, ours does have a wait to start light and it only stays on 10 or 15 seconds. The intercooler not doing its job would make sense, except that it only happened so far when we were just starting out for the day, with the hot weather and hard climbs still ahead of us. When the CE light went out, all indications remained normal for the rest of the day. We made it to Mammoth Campground this morning without a hitch. We got a nice site, which required me to to the Austin Powers Gol cart maneuver to get in with the view I wanted from the couch

I did make and break the connections for the manifold heater relays and the air temperature sensor (if I identified the part correctly), and sprayed the contacts with DeoxIT. Who knows weather that helped, but so far so good. One of the relay connectors wasn't completely seated (the locking tab wasn't engaged), but it is now. Also one of the relays (again, if I identified the parts correctly), was connected with butt splices. They seemed to be okay, but I suppose that probably indicates a repair... Though I have seen other instances of splices like that in the coach that appeared to have been there since new.
The mystery remains, but our schedule won't allow for a side trip to cummins... unless it progresses to an emergency. Both times it happened, it was at the beginning of the day and while or right after merging on to the expressway. After that, there were several more occasions of merging or long climbs with on issues. I am still puzzled... But happy to be parked amidst such beautiful surroundings.
Don

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #14 – July 25, 2014, 05:37:04 pm

Don, any pictures from your coach window coming???

Larry

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #15 – July 25, 2014, 06:37:41 pm

Don,

Yes, photos. What do you think of the campground? Did I misrepresent it?

Pierce

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #16 – July 25, 2014, 10:20:58 pm

Here are a few pictures of the view out of the front window... and Pierce, Tys loves this campground and I prefer it to the one we stayed at outside the park for $54... it was nice, but like the difference between a manicured golf course and a real mountain meadow. The former is okay and the conveiniences are nice, but we prefer the real thing... and we love the open vistas and 180 degree plus views we can see from our site (number 60). The construction on the roads leading up to the park (route 20) and the construction on the roads in the park was pretty bad. We are so glad that we are leaving out the north gate and not going back through it. We plan to check out the hot springs where the Boiling River Trail meets up with waters of the Gardner River tomorrow for a hot dip.
Don & Tys

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #17 – July 26, 2014, 06:35:32 am

Don, have I told you lately how jealous Joy & I are right now

. Have a great trip, post pictures so that we can travel along with you.

Larry

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #18 – July 26, 2014, 11:50:05 pm

Then our work here is done

Truly, your time is going to come. Persistence pays off and I think you have shown that you guys posses that quality. One of these days, we meet up at a nice campground when you have your new to you coach and we will have a show and tell. In the mean time, we will be happy to oblige posting pictures. It is a good way to keep track of where we have been and what we have done. Here are few...
Don & Tys

Quote from: ohsonew – July 26, 2014, 06:35:32 am

Don, have I told you lately how jealous Joy & I are right now . Have a great trip, post pictures so that we can travel along with you.

Larry

Re: Check Engine Light- high intake manifold temperature

Reply #19 – August 08, 2014, 10:00:15 am

Inter cooler sound plausible, read that even the slightest oil contamination can significantly reduce effectiveness.

I wish I was there ,nice pics!

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