What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Topic: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes) (Read 1814 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #25 – August 03, 2014, 02:53:29 pm

Your findings Neal echo ours, and as we are plenty fine with the wide body and Ruth cannot understand why we would ever need a slide, even fulltiming! Storage is far more 8important than being able to sit 6 people in the coach, that is what the outdoors is for and in evenings/dark 2 chairs or? is all we need before bedtime ETTO I guess.
JohnH

ps- plus less issues and cost of upkeep.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #26 – August 03, 2014, 06:03:06 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – August 03, 2014, 02:46:40 pm

Hmmm, my aH is pretty small and tucked between wet bay and utility bay in middle of coach. If I lost space vs propane I would be surprised. Agree on all the rest

I agree. Our 97' non tag, non slide 40' WTBI floorplan without Joey beds easily has the most storage of any non 45' coach.

The Richardsons who bought this first knew exactly what was the biggest it seems.

Every tankful and the coach 90% loaded internally and storage wise the coach is right at GVW.

front tires are at 108 pdi out of a full load being 110 psi. Rears are 98 out of 100-105?

After adjusting the shocks twice and then driving the coach 4,000 miles the stability in winds and the body lean in tight corners with a dip in the turn is very good.

Versus needing a tag axle for stability?

But I bet foretravel for marketing and bigger(heavier) future coaches starting fitting tags.

Turning radius on a non tag 276" WB 40' is wide. A tag moves the pivoting axle up towards the front. For non experienced owners the easier turning might be appreciated.

Especially in the east side of the country as I understand everything is tighter.

Nice fancy campgrounds, no problem.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #27 – August 03, 2014, 08:51:27 pm

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – August 03, 2014, 02:41:06 pm

Walt,
I understand your difficulty in sorting out the facts. We had exactly the same question back in 1996 when we were trying to determine which FT we wanted to find.
Over the years, it became much more clear to us as we experienced the FT evolutions. As it turns out, there is a very simple thumb rule that applies to all models and all years. And yet, we see others struggle in trying to figure out the realities of various choices. Note: the thumb rule ignores the other side of the coin which is"net carrying capacity".

THUMBRULE: A base coach floorplan, in any length, will have the most storage volume: By "Base", I mean, no tag, no slide, no Aqua Hot, no private toilet.

a tag = less storage

a slide = less storage, each additional slide = additional loss in storage volume

an Aquahot = less storage

a separate toilet = less storage
Start by looking at the wheelbase dimensions:
Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year
It will quickly become obvious that there is a reduction of two feet in one max. possible storage bay dimension when a tag is added to any given FT length (38', 40', 42').

Then consider that a slide removes overhead cabinet volume as well as removes bay storage volume (required additional slide systems are in the bays).
Finally, an Aqua Hot may reduce propane tank size but an Aqua Hot still occupies more volume than a propane furnace(s) plus 3-way water heater. Absence of a the 3-way heater provides minimal additional storage volume in the water bay.
We proved these thumb rules several times over throughout the course of trying to find our ideal upgrade coach. What I did, for several coaches that we were interested in over the years, was take the dimensions of every available storage volume and calculate the inside and bay total available storage volumes. Until we became accustomed to the reality of it all, it was hard to get our heads around the fact that a 40', two slide, tag axle, Aqua Hot coach had significantly less storage volume than our 36', no slide, no tag, no Aqua Hot coach.

The location and usability of any given storage volume may present other complications. For instance, we found storage cabinets over slides to be far less useable than the original higher, deeper cabinets. Likewise, some otherwise good storage becomes awkward or can't be accessed with a slide "in", smaller bay "Joy Beds" are less efficient in making full use of the available storage volume, ease of access to bay storage volume (under slides) suffers, etc.

I hope that this provides some insights for you. We decided that the open floor space, created by slide(s), comes at far too much expense for us. The more we consider full timing, the more true that fact becomes. Of course many would rather have the opposite, and that is fine. But, it does severely restrict the number of available used coaches for us to choose from in the future. Best wishes with your research.

Neal

Neal, thank you for all of this. I may hold onto it when the time comes that my wife and I move into serious looking. It should certainly help with our decision-making process.

The comments by everyone else are well-taken. One reason I'm not sure they'll apply in our case is that I'm not sure either my wife nor I expect at this point that we'll be doing our own maintenance on things like the furnace. And perhaps that is not necessarily a consideration for many of you. Perhaps the ease of access (I'm assuming that is one of the reasons for the grill and furnace's location) translate into less labor hours during a repair and leads to a lower overall repair bill.

Personally, I'd be tempted not to have a furnace at all. In our current fifth-wheel, we have used our furnace maybe twice in three years of ownership. And that includes camping in Idaho in November, December, January, and February. Since I don't know what I don't know, I'm grateful for the knowledge and advice I've gained from this forum.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #28 – August 03, 2014, 10:11:30 pm

Propane furnaces are almost maintenance free, always accessible (all the ones I've seen), and EVERY RV tech knows how to work on them. AH does need more care, are sometimes hard to get to, and need a (hard to find) RV tech with experience. My propane furnaces are rarely used too, as we try to stay away from really cold weather. If we need heat, the rooftop heat pumps are all we need, and we carry an electric space heater "just in case".

But speaking from experience, placing AH on your must-have list will eliminate too many nice coaches. We thought we wanted AH too (and the power of a U320), but the otherwise perfect (now actually perfect) coach turned up, and we bought it. With Foretravel, there are no bad choices, just personal preferences.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #29 – August 03, 2014, 11:04:17 pm

Propane in that case and replace tank style water heater with on demand based propane unit might make sense

Hard to give up quiet zoned heat and endless hot water with ah once you experience it.

Put it simply, who here has had an ah, and went back to propane and thinks that is better . Lots of folks here that have never had an ah prefer what they have. Cool. I've had two coaches propane and one ah. Never going back

If you have had both and would rather have propane furnace and hot water, tell us your story!!!!

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #30 – August 04, 2014, 12:35:30 am

We think AH works quite well. Cindy's comment is:

We know some real nice guys that make a living fixing & maintaining AH. And there are lots of people busy keeping AH's going as their business.

But there is no one who makes a living maintaining propane hot water tanks and furnaces.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #31 – August 04, 2014, 07:22:00 am

We had a motorhome with a propane furnace and a propane water heater. The furnace was noisy and the hot water was limited. Now we have a motorhome with an Aqua-Hot, and I would never want to go back!

I've been told (by a person very familiar with Aqua-Hot) that the primary reason for Aqua-Hot problems is too little use. If it's not used regularly then the nozzle can begin to become obstructed. If it's used (in diesel mode) for a minimum of perhaps 10 minutes a month, then the nozzle will stay clear and will likely be trouble-free.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #32 – August 04, 2014, 09:58:29 am

Maybe depends on where you live. In Texas the hot water heater and furnaces serve me well. I can see if I was in a colder environment AH would be an asset. It must be an extra expense to maintain the AH system. Its all in what you prefer and get use to. Both has its place just like slide or no slide// the thing is that currently all motorhomes are being built with slides. Resale slides really help.
Its what the general public has perceived as the norm. Its all about the gadgets. A neighbor just purchased a new Berkshire 40 with 4 slides. 360 Cummins. First trip was to Colorado and Wyoming.
Just got back and they loved the coach. Lots of bells and whistles. Maybe if you own it you love it. DAN

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #33 – August 04, 2014, 10:03:11 am

Quote from: Dan J. Stansel – August 04, 2014, 09:58:29 am

Maybe depends on where you live. In Texas the hot water heater and furnaces serve me well. I can see if I was in a colder environment AH would be an asset. It must be an extra expense to maintain the AH system. Its all in what you prefer and get use to. Both has its place just like slide or no slide// the thing is that currently all motorhomes are being built with slides. Resale slides really help.
Its what the general public has perceived as the norm. Its all about the gadgets. A neighbor just purchased a new Berkshire 40 with 4 slides. 360 Cummins. First trip was to Colorado and Wyoming.
Just got back and they loved the coach. Lots of bells and whistles. Maybe if you own it you love it. DAN

Probably true. I am looking at any purchase as a future coach for full-timing, which means we'll likely be here, there, and everywhere, although hopefully never in really cold or really hot weather.

Because of that interior and exterior storage will be important to us. Personally, I think I would rather go no slide (less to go wrong?), while I think my wife prefers a slide or two (doesn't want four or full-wall but is willing to keep an open mind on no slide). I'm also not too worried about resale. If possible, I'd like to get it right the first time and make my first coach my last. Idealistic, perhaps, but a man can dream.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #34 – August 04, 2014, 10:53:46 am

Got a question; on slide models, are the bay heights effected?

Walt we full time, these are our learned space requirements:
decorations; for seasons and holidays 3x3x4, 40cf.
Tools-spare parts 3x3x3, 30cf
Clothing for 2 all seasons inside 80cf
Camping equip, stoves, chairs etc 40cf
Wet bay, cords, hoses 10cf

FULL is an under statement!

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #35 – August 04, 2014, 11:30:48 am

regarding Barry & Cindy's quote on no RV service guy's for Propane appliances-
My answer to that would be that these units are very dependable and last for many years with just the simplest checking needed that ANY owner can do once they know what to do.
Keep all flues/burners etc clean, esp' on Fridge.
Last year I helped R/R in friends coach an Aqua Hot unit the he bought from Roger B and my opinion is that it is a very expensive piece of equipt just to get a bit more hot water and warmth for a short time in winter. We have not run out of hot water for showers or had a cold coach with the Propane units and on our trips back and forth to Mexico in the winters, we go thru snow/ice and freezing rain sometimes, even parking overnight in these conditions with no hook up!
I guess this is another case of IMHO
John H

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #36 – August 04, 2014, 01:08:21 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – August 04, 2014, 11:30:48 am

regarding Barry & Cindy's quote on no RV service guy's for Propane appliances-
My answer to that would be that these units are very dependable and last for many years with just the simplest checking needed that ANY owner can do once they know what to do.
Keep all flues/burners etc clean, esp' on Fridge.
Last year I helped R/R in friends coach an Aqua Hot unit the he bought from Roger B and my opinion is that it is a very expensive piece of equipt just to get a bit more hot water and warmth for a short time in winter. We have not run out of hot water for showers or had a cold coach with the Propane units and on our trips back and forth to Mexico in the winters, we go thru snow/ice and freezing rain sometimes, even parking overnight in these conditions with no hook up!
I guess this is another case of IMHO
John H

I think I'm with you on this one. The Aqua Hot sounds like (and I'm sure it is) a great feature, but anything I can do to simplify the complexity of any coach I buy is a good thing, as I am not the most mechanically adept. (I once had a counselor advise me, after I had completed a series of tests including manual dexterity, to avoid getting a job which required using my hands.)

Our current fifth-wheel has a six-gallon (I believe) hot water heater, and we managed enough hot water for three people to take showers each day and for doing dishes several times for four days without hookups. As for warm floors, which is one of things I've read touted by those with Aqua Hot, we're accustomed to a bit of a morning chill when we RV in the off season.

I won't rule a coach out because it has Aqua Hot. Nor will I rule it out because it doesn't - as long as it has everything I think I want and need and as long as the layout works for us.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #37 – August 04, 2014, 01:25:41 pm

Walt,

If you are getting by with a 6 gallon water heater, you'r likely to have less problems with the standard 10 gallon propane in most of the later 90's Foretravel's you might buy. We enjoy having the motor aid heating the water tank as we drive, for free. The long term risk to repair costs were a selling point to us, with 2 furnaces and one that works as a back up. A propane furnace or water heater is an off the shelf part, and simple repair to me, any one for around the reported yearly cost of AH service and parts.

When I have been at FOT, a number of coaches have been there for AH issues. Worst was a member that I think went 14 weeks. They were getting their unit replaced by the Extended Service contract company, and FOT, and the re-built replacement leaked within a week of them leaving FOT, requiring a return to do it all again. We offered the DW our shower, as they were driving up to a campground for showers.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #38 – August 04, 2014, 01:56:05 pm

Regarding bay height, our 2003 U295 has a single slide room. It spans three bays. It does not take any height away from the fuel tank and house battery bay nor from the full width bay. The only visible part of the mechanism is right next to the equipment bay door, on the ceiling of that non-storage bay.

Regarding hot water, we've never run out of hot water with our 10 gallon water heater. Engine heat allows us to arrive with hot water. We keep it on electric when we have hookups. When dry camping, we turn it on (propane) about 15 minutes before taking a shower. We sometimes run it on both propane and electric while taking a shower, and run the water pump along with campground water for more pressure and flow.

Honestly, barring unforeseen circumstances, I doubt we'll ever upgrade to another coach. But if that happens, and we still need a diesel pusher, it will definitely be a Foretravel. As for AH vs. propane, that would only come into play as a deciding factor between two coaches we fall equally in love with. All else being equal, we would likely go with Aqua Hot.

But the reason for giving the nod to AH is that I could remove the propane tank and add another 8D battery, a residential refrigerator, an induction cooktop, and a roof full of solar panels. Or better yet, find a coach where the previous owner already did all that on his nickel.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #39 – August 04, 2014, 02:07:43 pm

Tom, thanks for the explanation on bay height

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #40 – August 04, 2014, 02:26:59 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – August 04, 2014, 01:56:05 pm

But the reason for giving the nod to AH is that I could remove the propane tank and add another 8D battery, a residential refrigerator, an induction cooktop, and a roof full of solar panels. Or better yet, find a coach where the previous owner already did all that on his nickel.

This, for me, would be the biggest reason and advantage for going with Aqua Hot over a propane furnace and hot water heater, as I definitely want solar on the coach. Like you, I would love to find a coach where all of that has already been done, although I don't necessarily mind adding a couple of solar panels if the rest has been taken care of.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #41 – August 04, 2014, 07:09:31 pm

We have a 40' single slide coach with an Aquahot. We proudly represent the folks who do very little of their own maintenance ... we know our limitations and are fine with our best tool being a telephone and a credit card. The Aquahot is a lovely thing ... helps "goose" the electric hot water heater when needed and is a super furnace. We just make sure to run it regularly and give it the proper maintenance, which is certainly not burdensome. We have several solar panels ... nice addition in case we want to use a park that has no hookups for a while and because we are planning on adding a residential fridge. Also keeps the batteries full when we are stored in the winter. We could get along just fine with no slide and never thought we wanted one. We really bought this coach for other reasons, including the tile floor interior ... but we have just had grand kids visiting for a total of almost a month. The extra space made that possible! Otherwise ... no room.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #42 – August 04, 2014, 10:22:00 pm

No aquahot here and I've never run out of hot water. And I don't even let it heat up all the way. It stays hot for at least a day after driving from the engine (3way water heater).

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #43 – August 05, 2014, 10:36:44 am

Quote from: Carol Savournin – August 04, 2014, 07:09:31 pm

We have a 40' single slide coach with an Aquahot. We proudly represent the folks who do very little of their own maintenance ... we know our limitations and are fine with our best tool being a telephone and a credit card. The Aquahot is a lovely thing ... helps "goose" the electric hot water heater when needed and is a super furnace. We just make sure to run it regularly and give it the proper maintenance, which is certainly not burdensome. We have several solar panels ... nice addition in case we want to use a park that has no hookups for a while and because we are planning on adding a residential fridge. Also keeps the batteries full when we are stored in the winter. We could get along just fine with no slide and never thought we wanted one. We really bought this coach for other reasons, including the tile floor interior ... but we have just had grand kids visiting for a total of almost a month. The extra space made that possible! Otherwise ... no room.

A part of me thinks I would like to be able to do some maintenance. Another part of me recognizes that the phone and credit card will be my standard tools of choice.

Solar is definitely a part of our future plans. Don't know yet about a residential refrigerator, although that is certainly a possibility.

We have an autistic son (our only child), so grandchildren are less likely, but I guess one should never say never. Plus we don't really entertain, so I don't think a slide is essential for us, although my wife may well disagree.

As far as the great Aqua Hot / water heater debate

, I'm willing to go either way. We've used propane for refrigerator, water heater, stove, and rarely our furnace on three different RVs over the last seven years without problem. But I'm willing to consider something else.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #44 – August 05, 2014, 09:25:38 pm

My one beef with an aquahot system is that if you live in the South and hardly use heat, it's kinda pointless to have such a complex system just to make hot water.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #45 – August 05, 2014, 10:03:21 pm

Well, I was in Nac this Jan and it snowed. It got into the twenties. I was in Yellowstone in late June and it snowed and the high was 38.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #46 – August 06, 2014, 12:48:41 am

Quote from: krush – August 05, 2014, 09:25:38 pm

My one beef with an aquahot system is that if you live in the South and hardly use heat, it's kinda pointless to have such a complex system just to make hot water.

true

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #47 – August 06, 2014, 08:13:39 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – August 06, 2014, 12:48:41 am

true

Same for us, in 3 years, we have heated maybe 40 nights out of 220. The one night at 10 degrees we were on a Frieghtliner lot, and just ran the generator, as we like the electric blanket with dual controls. All the other nights we had electric hook ups and used electric heat. The propane furnaces have not seen 6 nights of use, it that so far. And with 10 gallons of hot water, we shower, one after another even with a guest traveling with us, for some 7 weeks of those nights.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #48 – August 06, 2014, 08:41:05 am

Seems to me that you are going to love AH, be indifferent about having an AH or be against having an AH. If it is in the coach you really wanted to buy you have it. Would it stop someone from buying a coach that they otherwise want because it doesn't have an AH? Probably not unless you have had one in the past.

It wasn't on my list of must haves when we were shopping but floor plan, 450HP and other features of the U320 were. After 33 years with propane furnaces before our FT, the AH has been a very welcome newcomer. If I ever upgrade to a newer coach (not likely) an AH would be on the list of most desirable features.

Roger

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #49 – August 06, 2014, 11:26:56 am

Quote from: Home2fromHastings – August 06, 2014, 08:41:05 am

Seems to me that you are going to love AH, be indifferent about having an AH or be against having an AH. If it is in the coach you really wanted to buy you have it. Would it stop someone from buying a coach that they otherwise want because it doesn't have an AH? Probably not unless you have had one in the past.

It wasn't on my list of must haves when we were shopping but floor plan, 450HP and other features of the U320 were. After 33 years with propane furnaces before our FT, the AH has been a very welcome newcomer. If I ever upgrade to a newer coach (not likely) an AH would be on the list of most desirable features.

Roger

I agree 100%. On our next coach, AH would be desirable, but not essential. But since all-electric and the bigger engine are also desirable, AH would most likely come along for the ride.

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