What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Topic: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes) (Read 1814 times) previous topic - next topic

What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

August 01, 2014, 09:59:50 pm

I was looking at pictures of a 2005 Foretravel U270 36-foot model on the MOT site and saw something that puzzled. In the kitchen, where sometimes there is a second drawer below the stovetop, there is what appears to be an air exchange or something along those lines. I've seen this on some, though not all FT coaches I've looked at.

I guess I really have two questions: First, what actually is this for? Second, why put it there and not somewhere that would not eat up interior storage space?

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #1 – August 01, 2014, 10:06:09 pm

Since it's a U270, it will have a propane furnace. Maybe that's the heater register?

ETA you can see a similar register for the bedroom/bath in another photo of that coach.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #2 – August 01, 2014, 10:21:11 pm

Our 2000 295 also has that grille but below a large "Pots and Pan" drawer and it is for access to the propane heater and maybe for other uses.
JohnH

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #3 – August 01, 2014, 11:05:18 pm

Our 270 had propane heater access but the 320 has two drawers.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #4 – August 01, 2014, 11:24:32 pm

Propane furnace is behind grill, and the grill is also the only cold air intake to the furnace.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #5 – August 02, 2014, 02:01:08 am

And on our U295, there is a second grill in the bedroom. Two furnaces.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #6 – August 02, 2014, 07:58:00 am

Someone on the forum posted a photo of a beautiful wooden grill upgrade, something I intend to do.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #7 – August 02, 2014, 08:22:23 am

Quote from: Dave and Dolly Cobb – August 02, 2014, 07:58:00 am

Someone on the forum posted a photo of a beautiful wooden grill upgrade, something I intend to do.

That would be Don Don and Tys' new furnace duct cover

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #8 – August 02, 2014, 09:36:21 am

Barry & Cindy, I seem to remember someone saying that the air intake for furnace is the outside area around the exhaust pipe on them, meaning air comes from out and hot exhaust goes out.
I have had my vent cover off to pull wiring for solar etc and also paint it a close colour to Walnut cabinets and do not remember seeing any intake. I vacuumed all that space out while it was off.
John H

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #9 – August 02, 2014, 10:30:16 am

Hi John,

I thought the outside air intake is for the combustion chamber only. And the way inside air flows to squirrel cage blower is through louvers on side of furnace near circuit board, where the furnace is not tightly fastened together.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #10 – August 02, 2014, 11:44:13 am

You may be right and I will remove cover to see. I read your words (cold air intake for furnace) to mean the actual "firing" of it.
JohnH

5 mins later. You are correct as the squirrel cage has open ends and the top has an opening in box so round motor fan can sit above the box and get air. You get to give out the pensils in class!!

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #11 – August 02, 2014, 12:09:11 pm

Quote from: WaltH – August 01, 2014, 09:59:50 pm

I was looking at pictures of a 2005 Foretravel U270 36-foot model on the MOT site and saw something that puzzled. In the kitchen, where sometimes there is a second drawer below the stovetop, there is what appears to be an air exchange or something along those lines. I've seen this on some, though not all FT coaches I've looked at.

I guess I really have two questions: First, what actually is this for? Second, why put it there and not somewhere that would not eat up interior storage space?

Quote from: John Haygarth – August 02, 2014, 11:44:13 am

.....................You are correct as the squirrel cage has open ends and the top has an opening in box so round motor fan can sit above the box and get air.................................

You beat me to it John!
The Atwood Furnace has a blower wheel on one end of the propane furnace motor and a combustion wheel on the other end. The two spaces, inside the furnace motor housing, are separated by a Combustion Wall. The outside air, from the outside intake vent, and the inside air, from the inside intake grill, (located either under the 8 ftᵌ refrigerator or under the stove, if the U270 or U295 has the larger refrigerator) DO NOT mix in the furnace.
Some, especially newbies, wonder why a drawer is missing and overlook the fact that a propane furnace uses up the volume of a drawer while "upgrading" (others consider it to be downgrading) to an AquaHot system uses up the volume of 1/3 to 1/2 of a storage bay.
Trade offs,
Neal

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #12 – August 02, 2014, 12:21:04 pm

I had no AH in my 270 and rarely used the space for the ah as it was buried.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #13 – August 02, 2014, 07:35:08 pm

Okay, I guess I'll continue to show my ignorance. I think what it's for, but I'm still not sure I understand the placement, especially when other coaches - and even other FT coaches - with propane furnaces don't seem to place the grill there. Since the under 40-foot FT coaches seem to already have a bit less basement storage than other coaches of similar length (at least based on pictures, which I know can be deceiving), it seems FT would want to provide as much interior storage as possible. I'm sure I must be missing something, so feel free top let me have it.

Also, someone mentioned Aqua Hot. Assuming you had propane for cooking (if not your refrigerator), wouldn't the Aqua Hot reduce your basement storage even further? If that is the case, what would be the best FT configuration for maximizing interior and exterior storage, and is it possible to get in the 36 or 38-foot models?

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #14 – August 02, 2014, 07:47:18 pm

AH is buried in the middle on the older coaches. It does not really take that much room as it is between the batteries and where the water manifold is on my coach. I still have two full pass thrus.
Don't forget if you have propane you have a propane tank and a water heater and you have a furnace. WIth an AH I have only small registers in the rest of the coach.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #15 – August 02, 2014, 08:01:57 pm

Quote from: John S – August 02, 2014, 07:47:18 pm

AH is buried in the middle on the older coaches. It does not really take that much room as it is between the batteries and where the water manifold is on my coach. I still have two full pass thrus.
Don't forget if you have propane you have a propane tank and a water heater and you have a furnace. WIth an AH I have only small registers in the rest of the coach.

Fair enough, although it seems to me that other brands that have similar configurations do not take away that interior storage, or maybe I just haven't seen it.

I do have a couple of other questions, then. Is it fair to assume that if the coach has two drawers instead of one drawer and the intake grill it likely has Aqua Hot (if, of course, the intake is not under a smaller refrigerator as Neal mentioned)? Also, what year did Aqua Hot either become standard or fairly common in FT coaches?

I ask these things because I know my wife would have a real issue with what she might see as bad design. Her degree is in Industrial Engineering, and she points out design flaws and other problems in just about every coach and trailer we've looked at. She does understand the notion of trade-offs, but there are some trade-offs she would not be likely to make. Fortunately, not every FT coach I've seen pictures of is configured in exactly this way.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #16 – August 02, 2014, 08:24:11 pm

Quote from: WaltH – August 02, 2014, 08:01:57 pm

Fair enough, although it seems to me that other brands that have similar configurations do not take away that interior storage, or maybe I just haven't seen it.

I do have a couple of other questions, then. Is it fair to assume that if the coach has two drawers instead of one drawer and the intake grill it likely has Aqua Hot (if, of course, the intake is not under a smaller refrigerator as Neal mentioned)? Also, what year did Aqua Hot either become standard or fairly common in FT coaches?

I ask these things because I know my wife would have a real issue with what she might see as bad design. Her degree is in Industrial Engineering, and she points out design flaws and other problems in just about every coach and trailer we've looked at. She does understand the notion of trade-offs, but there are some trade-offs she would not be likely to make. Fortunately, not every FT coach I've seen pictures of is configured in exactly this way.

Fair assumptions.

AH takes up bay space and has an extra exhaust pipe (one each for the AH, generator, and main engine)

Propane takes up interior space and has a grill for each furnace. It has to be somewhere.

Most Foretravel coaches were built with propane tanks, even those with AH. AH models have smaller propane tanks, and all electric AH models do without the propane tanks altogether.

No bad design, just trade offs. You choose which is best for you.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #17 – August 02, 2014, 11:27:22 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – August 02, 2014, 08:24:11 pm

Fair assumptions.

AH takes up bay space and has an extra exhaust pipe (one each for the AH, generator, and main engine)

Propane takes up interior space and has a grill for each furnace. It has to be somewhere.

Most Foretravel coaches were built with propane tanks, even those with AH. AH models have smaller propane tanks, and all electric AH models do without the propane tanks altogether.

No bad design, just trade offs. You choose which is best for you.

I certainly understand that the grill(s) has to be somewhere. I just think FT is the first coach where I've seen a grill under the cooktop and then, not on all models.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #18 – August 02, 2014, 11:40:12 pm

Quote from: WaltH – August 02, 2014, 11:27:22 pm

I certainly understand that the grill(s) has to be somewhere. I just think FT is the first coach where I've seen a grill under the cooktop and then, not on all models.
[/quote

As you will see if you look long enough tote Foretravel engineering needs are at least equal to the marketing needs.

Others would have hidden the system better and had service/use issues?

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #19 – August 03, 2014, 12:03:00 am

On our U270, the furnace (and the grill) is under the fridge.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #20 – August 03, 2014, 12:31:41 am

From an engineering point of view, it makes sense to locate a furnace where there already is a propane using appliance located. Both the stovetop and refrigerator use propane.

In my 1988 Winnebago, the furnace was under the stove drawer. In my 1972 Revcon, it was under the oven beneath the stovetop. Later motorhomes added a convection microwave, and put a drawer in the former oven location.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #21 – August 03, 2014, 12:44:00 am

Quote from: Dave Katsuki – August 03, 2014, 12:03:00 am

On our U270, the furnace (and the grill) is under the fridge.

Same on our 36' 2002 U270.

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #22 – August 03, 2014, 12:06:36 pm

Walt,

You asked about when/what years were Auga Hots? I know in the 90's coaches U270's seemed to get single propane furnaces, U295 got 2 propane furnaces, and U320's got AH's. This is per specs on the info on the links to each year. But then Foretravel built custom ordered coaches, where you could spec your's to have AH upgrade on the base 270's or 295. I think I saw a 320 without AH, it got speced with propane. We have a U295, and we feel we have no shortage of storage. We do not full time, but in the old coach and the newer U295, at least half of out storage areas are empty! We do spent weeks and some times a month in the coach with out any shortage of our things. The biggest joke has as been when looking for something at home to be reminded, "oh, that is in the coach". Three years ago I suggested we load all our favorite things into the first coach, a few things got added to the second.

A bigger concern to me was, can you get to those furnaces, and I can to any of the four that I have checked. And when giving tours, guest are amazed by the amount of storage in our Foretravels compared to their SOB.

I hope you and your wife get into a Foretravel to see how someone is living and storing their things. Dolly got to see how other's stored what and where. That is so different from photos and rv shows for us both inside and in the bays.

On some other threads members have reported removing their bottom storage under the refer. when adding a new refer. Those bottom storage areas are not as handy as we get move years of use,

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #23 – August 03, 2014, 02:41:06 pm

Quote from: WaltH – August 02, 2014, 07:35:08 pm

..............If that is the case, what would be the best FT configuration for maximizing interior and exterior storage, and is it possible to get in the 36 or 38-foot models...................................

Walt,
I understand your difficulty in sorting out the facts. We had exactly the same question back in 1996 when we were trying to determine which FT we wanted to find.

Over the years, it became much more clear to us as we experienced the FT evolutions. As it turns out, there is a very simple thumb rule that applies to all models and all years. And yet, we see others struggle in trying to figure out the realities of various choices. Note: the thumb rule ignores the other side of the coin which is"net carrying capacity".

THUMBRULE: A base coach floorplan, in any length, will have the most storage volume: By "Base", I mean, no tag, no slide, no Aqua Hot, no private toilet.

a tag = less storage

a slide = less storage, each additional slide = additional loss in storage volume

an Aquahot = less storage

a separate toilet = less storage

Start by looking at the wheelbase dimensions:
Foretravel Specifications, Floor Plans, Photos & Brochures by Year
It will quickly become obvious that there is a reduction of two feet in one max. possible storage bay dimension when a tag is added to any given FT length (38', 40', 42').

Then consider that a slide removes overhead cabinet volume as well as removes bay storage volume (required additional slide systems are in the bays).

Finally, an Aqua Hot may reduce propane tank size but an Aqua Hot still occupies more volume than a propane furnace(s) plus 3-way water heater. Absence of a 3-way heater provides minimal additional storage volume in the water bay.
We proved these thumb rules several times over throughout the course of trying to find our ideal upgrade coach. What I did, for several coaches that we were interested in over the years, was take the dimensions of every available storage volume and calculate the inside and bay total available storage volumes. Until we became accustomed to the reality of it all, it was hard to get our heads around the fact that a 40', two slide, tag axle, Aqua Hot coach had significantly less storage volume than our 36', no slide, no tag, no Aqua Hot coach.

The location and usability of any given storage volume may present other complications. For instance, we found storage cabinets over slides to be far less useable than the original higher, deeper cabinets. Likewise, some otherwise good storage becomes awkward or can't be accessed with a slide "in", smaller bay "Joy Beds" are less efficient in making full use of the available storage volume, ease of access to bay storage volume (under slides) suffers, etc.

I hope that this provides some insights for you. We decided that the open floor space, created by slide(s), comes at far too much expense for us. The more we consider full timing, the more true that fact becomes. Of course many would rather have the opposite, and that is fine. But, it does severely restrict the number of available used coaches for us to choose from in the future. Best wishes with your research.

Neal

Re: What is the grate for in this photo (was Silly question, perhaps, but here goes)

Reply #24 – August 03, 2014, 02:46:40 pm

Hmmm, my aH is pretty small and tucked between wet bay and utility bay in middle of coach. If I lost space vs propane I would be surprised. Agree on all the rest

Affiliate Notice