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Topic: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches (Read 1180 times) previous topic - next topic

Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

I have seen and owned one of the newer problem Foretravel coaches with the famous paint problems. The 2007 and some of the 2008 Nimbus coaches have a paint issue, where the paint cracks or flakes off. Many have in this forum stated this was a problem with the fiberglass. Foretravel themselves also admitted to this problem but since these coaches are way past warranty, they feel they are not responsible for further repairs. In addition, we are also seeing cases of delamination too. This occurs where either the front shell meets the sidewall or the rear shell meets the side wall. Foretravel tried using the trim piece covering the joints to waterproof the joint, however that failed and allowed water resulting in delamination.

The question is: Is it worth repainting these coaches with crazing since it is a fiberglass issue? Will the crazing only return to the new paint job? How can we stop the water penetration problem and keep from delaminating? Would painting the coach a lighter color help keep it from crazing?

I would surely want Extreme to paint the coach at this point if I was to repaint it. They appear to really know their stuff and have years of experience. I have seen too many new young faces floating around the paint shop at FOT the last time we visited the place.
Bob & Kathy
2007 Nimbus
Full Timers
Retired Charter Bus Owner/Operator

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #1 –
I've not seen crazing... what does it look like?
Dub McBride 1996 270

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #2 –
Quote from: dub –
I've not seen crazing... what does it look like?

The crazing are like cracks in the paint. You can as I had, over a hundred of them on just one side of the coach. They are usually in the darker color paint area. Interesting to note, where FOT stripped the fiberglass off the coach and re-fiberglassed the section, the crazing did come back in the repaired areas. This to me made me think that possibly we were having more of a paint issue since the crazing was appearing on new fiberglass areas. We also had bubbling or blisters of paint in areas. These blisters were about the size of a dime. Since I sold the coach to a family member for a dollar, it would surely have been a major hit for me financially to sell a coach with all the crazing. I personally saw several other Nimbus coaches with the same issues. One was just sold last week or so.
Bob & Kathy
2007 Nimbus
Full Timers
Retired Charter Bus Owner/Operator

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #3 –
I believe that the current rage (which has been going on for 10 years or more) of predominantly dark colors are the main culprit. Take an IR thermometer and point it at a white gel coat and any dark color. The temperature difference is beyond dramatic. I have measured differences over 50 degrees F on black paint. One can imagine the stresses placed on the fiberglass where the boundary of the light and dark colors meet. Amazing that there aren't more issues with cracking and delaminating fiberglass. While at Xtreme, I saw an all black National Islander (SOB child of Country Coach and National RV with a CC chassis and everything else by National) that was in the shop. The problem wasn't crazing of the paint or fiberglass, but rather the telegraphing of the Steel frame work through the paint. The owner of this coach had spent over $40K on upgrades mostly at Xtreme, and was considering spending another 10 to 20K to fix the problem (which I could have lived with myself :o ). I thought was a testament to the quality of paint and preparation that the paint still looked smooth without the crazing. Greg, the shop foreman at Xtreme had warned the owner about the potential problems with the dark color (black!) and since the telegraphing problem wasn't with the paint itself, any repairs caused but the dark paint would be on the owner's dime.
Don
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Don & Tys
1999 U270 3602 WTFE #5402
Xtreme Stage 1 w/Headlight, Step Conversion, etc.
2009 Honda Fit Sport with Navi
Freedom is NOT "just another word for nothing left to lose"... with apologies to Kris Kristofferson

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #4 –
Would be a drag to have that even on a coach the age of mine...High dollar 07/08 Nimbus all a man expects to see is his image when gazing into the paint.
Dub McBride 1996 270

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #5 –
Those dark colors are sure beautiful, but I can't imagine myself ever owning one - even if the paint issues didn't exist.  It's just so darn hot in our part of the world that I'm sure we'd never get the coach cooled down.  I guess that's why I see may of these newer ones with 3+ a/c units.  But I see plenty of the dark ones driving down the road, so maybe we're all just wrong?
1996 U295 36' WTBI

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #6 –
I share your opinion of they sure are beautiful...can't be denied.
Dub McBride 1996 270

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #7 –
I will update ours at some point, but I will definitely stick with a light base color. It just has too many advantages over the other options.

David and Carolyn Osborn
1995 U320C SE 40' Build 4726 Feb 1995
FMCA 147762
Motorcade 17186

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #8 –
Quote from: dub –
Would be a drag to have that even on a coach the age of mine...High dollar 07/08 Nimbus all a man expects to see is his image when gazing into the paint.

Probably why cm did not paint coaches initially
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #10 –
Quote from: bobnkathy –
Please tell me who or what is CM? Thanks

Mr Fore
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #11 –
I will repeat what I reported couple of years ago.

I found right at a 70 degrees difference between white and dark paint.  I approached James with question if that heat level was the problem, causing what I then called cracking, some call crazing. I posted this.  Most said the crazing not a problem.

The issue James and I saw was that the crazing could move to cracking, water intrusion and delamination.  (It is not the only cause of delamination)

We loved our coach.  I offered to James to repaint it white.  He said that for the years of my coach there was some that had fiberglass with different formulations and re painting may well not solve.  I thought I had six spots.  Rance found 21.

I looked at a replacement coach and asked mr tinkle about this.  He said it was true about formulation but limited.  We looked then at a newer coach and I pointed out the crazing even on the newer, why buy that, it ok?  He told me it not uncommon to see some but people generally did not care, they liked the very dark paint.

We sold the coach, the buyer was told of my concern and he did not share my concern.  Last I knew it was doing just fine, did not lead to water intrusion. I have talked to owners of SOB and he said they have same issue.

I concluded color matters but fiberglass formulation may also factor in.  Whatever brand of coach, the landscape is not littered with cracked surfaces and delamination, so I think be aware and investigate if you buy and monitor if you own.  Fix any spots that come up, I think that reasonable but for me, in Texas heat, I will stay with lighter colors.

Mike
Mike
2001 U320 4010 Build 5878 (Gus)
Wrangle Unlimited Toad
Nacogdoches

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #12 –
My Foretravel presentation in the 80's was to walk a perspective customer over to a gel coated Foretravel and have them touch the skin in direct sunlight then walk to a trade in or to the country coach lot next door and have them touch the other coach.

My comment was always that its not that Foretravel did not know how to run a paint gun but painting the coach added to the heat load of the air conditioning plant and made the exterior much easier to damage if you scrape a branch on the side by accident.

Maybe sikkens paint is as hard as the max guard 29 used on the mid 90's and up coaches prior to the paint but I doubt it.  And Foretravel probably did not use the sikkens when they finally went to paint.  Like country coach and beaver used.

The entire industry used dow epoxy that crazed under heat from dark paint as far as my sources say.

Hand washed my entire coach today including the roof and marveled at the still shiny sides and slightly less shiny roof.  Nicely treated by Richard Bark prior to trading it in.

Unless someone proves any paint is as long lasting as the max guard on our coach now I may figure out how to reapply the original gel coat.  More or less decrease its life span and heat gain to paint it.  More or less dark.

In do understand pride of ownership and wanting a beautiful coach.  Sold many brands all prettier than old Foretravels.

What did I buy after being out of the biz and not setting foot in any Rv in 17 years?

Gel coated center entry walk through bath walnut wood u320.  I still laugh at the cosmic circumstances to have my old buddy call me about the barks coach.  Was not in the market really.

More of a prepper thing to start with.  Have a storage lot walking distance from our hone. Coach kept stocked and fueled always.  Earthquake zone in so cal.

Plus an amazing drive.  And if less than high 80's degrees out and not humid no a/c is needed.  No gen.

Camped a lot of places and never bothered to plug in this coach or our old borrowed Foretravels.

Different idea. 

Set up an 77 33' for a couple that liked to read.  Drive out to the desert and dry camp in nice weather and one in front and one in rear both playing their own music at each end would relax and read for days. Remember them thanking me afterwards as it was exactly what they wanted. 

No gen to disturb them.  Old windows had a middle section that allowed excellent flow through ventilation.

I guess we are just old fashioned rv'ers. ,quiet camping in a forest is our style.

Spent weeks at outdoor resorts with coaches on display.  Do not miss it.

I rebuilt our ford headlights this week and put hid lights in all four new housings and added a Stryker hid remote roof spotlight to be able to scout out remote camp sights.

Crazy aren't we?

No paint, no residental refer so far. 
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #13 –
When we painted our coach (3 years ago) our most important concern was to choose a light color for the top front and most of the coach, and this color ended up high metallic silver. We did it mostly to reduce heat in the top front cap, but reducing fiberglass temperatures was also in the mix.

We think that all the dark coaches look great, but not something we wanted. We did end up with some darker colors in our design.

Of course there is nothing like a white coach to keep fiberglass and inside cooler. Our original fiberglass was in perfect shape and it would have lasted many more years, with cleaning and sealing. Painting (including the roof) makes the coach much easier to maintain and allowed Cindy to retire from her second career as a fiberglass sealer, and she does not head up the roof ladder as much either.

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Barry & Cindy –
When we painted our coach (3 years ago) our most important concern was to choose a light color for the top front and most of the coach, and this color ended up high metallic silver. We did it mostly to reduce heat in the top front cap, but reducing fiberglass temperatures was also in the mix.

We think that all the dark coaches look great, but not something we wanted. We did end up with some darker colors in our design.

Of course there is nothing like a white coach to keep fiberglass and inside cooler. Our original fiberglass was in perfect shape and it would have lasted many more years, with cleaning and sealing. Painting (including the roof) makes the coach much easier to maintain and allowed Cindy to retire from her second career as a fiberglass sealer, and she does not head up the roof ladder as much either.

My expertise is non existent on this but I thought that any  paint has metal in it even white.

Versus the gel coat is straight epoxy?

My temp comparison on other coaches included the light or white areas as they were hotter than the Foretravel surfaces if memory serves me.  Not too bad.

Country coach used predominately light color paint with mildly darker strips.

Beaver use darker paint but their sidewalls were hung walls and both the roof and sidewalls had end grain balsa wood as the layer under the skin as did country coach in their roof.

Insulation and to lower the expansion factor.

Foretravel made their sides originally on plate glass tables to make a very smooth finish versus have to sand and paint the surfaces.  Way different money.  Even at a factory level.

My info stops in the late 90's do much after that is my two mechanic/electrical guru buddies who still work on all brands.
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #15 –
I talked to James at Extreme this week about re-paint of a Foretravel.  Fine gentlemen who I never met but yet he talked to me for 30-minutes.  Anyway, long-story short, he definitely recommends avoiding the dark colors and told me to watch for Fiberglass checking, which a new paint job would not cure and you would have to replace the fiberglass.  No matter what coach I choose, it will definitely be white or tan.

As we discussed the differences in pricing between re-painting a FT, Newell, or Prevost, he told me he would be selling his Prevost in a few months and touted the Prevost as his coach of choice, despite his five years working at FT.  He had many reasons for his opinion, but the nationwide service centers seemed to be top on his list, which lowered maintenance costs on them since there were thousands across the U.S. 
Carpe' Diem!
Tim & Cindy

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #16 –
Quote from: jake62 –
I talked to James at Extreme this week about re-paint of a Foretravel.  Fine gentlemen who I never met but yet he talked to me for 30-minutes.  Anyway, long-story short, he definitely recommends avoiding the dark colors and told me to watch for Fiberglass checking, which a new paint job would not cure and you would have to replace the fiberglass.  No matter what coach I choose, it will definitely be white or tan.

As we discussed the differences in pricing between re-painting a FT, Newell, or Prevost, he told me he would be selling his Prevost in a few months and touted the Prevost as his coach of choice, despite his five years working at FT.  He had many reasons for his opinion, but the nationwide service centers seemed to be top on his list, which lowered maintenance costs on them since there were thousands across the U.S.

Painted metal can.  Hot in the sun and cold in the shade.  Never shut off the gen and HVAC plant.  Not made to live in.

Curved roof at top and slanted side windows on a le mirage.  Heavy, 5-6 mpg.  Aluminum windows and up shell.  No
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #17 –
Can't really comment on the "metal can" aspect; however, I don't like where the passenger seat is and, I don't need a million mile coach when the average 10-year coach has less than 100,000 ... no one ever gets to the million mile mark! 

I'd rather have the best "livable" coach for full-timing which I think the FT or Newell offer.  My problem with Newell is that the interior of their coaches are "too much glitz" for my taste...but again, top of the line nonetheless.  I think the FT is simply more bang-for-the-buck.
Carpe' Diem!
Tim & Cindy

Re: Repainting Newer Foretravel Coaches

Reply #18 –
Agree with Bob. Every one custom, lots more maintenance because of this " each one is a prototype". James is a pragmatic business person. FT decided to compete, so he switched his primary allegiance to Prevost . Higher ticket, less competition lots of units on road.

If I need paint and body, James is the man
Tim Fiedler    2025 LTV Unity MBL on Order
2000 Chevy Tracker 2 Door Convertible 4WD Now lifted 4.5"
1985 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston
Murphy Rebel on wheels with 175HP Titan
Cessna P337
1980 48' Westport MY (!/4 Share)