A smarter regulator for the alternator

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A smarter regulator for the alternator

August 29, 2014, 10:52:46 pm

Craig there are some interesting options for a smarter regulator for the alternator, both internal and external. The internal ones may void any warranties if the alternator has one as you have to do some soldering on the inside of the alternator. I bought one of the external models, just waiting until I get a chance to the new inverter and solar stuff installation. This is the one I bought...
Don
Sterling Alternator-to-Battery Charger / 12 Volt - 210 Amp

Quote from: wa_desert_rat – August 28, 2014, 02:48:03 pm

...But a better "smarter" regulator for that system makes more sense.

Craig

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #1 – August 29, 2014, 11:18:59 pm

Quote from: acousticart – August 29, 2014, 10:52:46 pm

Craig there are some interesting options for a smarter regulator for the alternator, both internal and external. The internal ones may void any warranties if the alternator has one as you have to do some soldering on the inside of the alternator. I bought one of these, just waiting until I get a chance to the new inverter and solar stuff installation. This is the one I bought...
Don
Sterling Alternator-to-Battery Charger / 12 Volt - 210 Amp

That makes a lot more sense than a couple of diodes on a heat sink.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #2 – August 29, 2014, 11:34:29 pm

Don, did I read you right that with the model you got you do not need to touch the present (internal) regulator for the Sterling to work? Sounds and looks interesting to say the least.
JohnH

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #3 – August 29, 2014, 11:55:34 pm

That is correct John. There is an interesting video that discusses the concept on the link in my post on it. Also, it won't affect the ECM and cause a check engine light on these electronic engines. According to the literature, some of the ECM's will have a fit if they read a higher voltage than expected from the alternator.
Don

Quote from: John Haygarth – August 29, 2014, 11:34:29 pm

Don, did I read you right that with the model you got you do not need to touch the present (internal) regulator for the Sterling to work? Sounds and looks interesting to say the least.
JohnH

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #4 – August 30, 2014, 04:47:18 pm

I emailed Sterling and they just got back to me with info and manual. Here is the PDF file if anyone want to read it.
JohnH

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #5 – August 30, 2014, 06:57:11 pm

Am I seeing this correct, it takes the place of the isolator?

The Sail write up was informative

did not see in any of the info if its waterproof, like some isolators. It wouldn't stop me cause like brett said, some can move this to under the bed using the same cables.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #6 – August 30, 2014, 07:02:41 pm

Quote from: fouroureye – August 30, 2014, 06:57:11 pm

Am I seeing this correct, it takes the place of the isolator?

The saol write up was informative did not see in any of the info if its waterproof, like some isolators. It wouldn't stop me cause like brett said, some can move this to under the bed using the same cables.

Yes, in the basic setup it simply replaces the diode isolator. And it is not waterproof.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #7 – August 30, 2014, 07:06:33 pm

Although geared for marine use, it should work very nicely in an RV.

I would like to see an RV model with 4 stage charging for both banks of batteries and an engine maintainer built in. And little need for a second alternator, unless someone here has a twin engine coach.

I do like the temperature monitoring of batteries and alternator, but don't understand the bit about reducing alternator voltage. That might be to protect the engine battery from overcharging.

And does it charge the house battery from the alternator or from the engine battery (possibly even without the engine running)?

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #8 – August 30, 2014, 08:22:52 pm

Looking at Sterling's website, they appear to have all the bases covered.

All they need to do with this produce is add one of their battery maintainers and one of their desolators inside the box, keep engine batteries under voltage control (which might already be there), and eliminate the second alternator input ... then sell this in the RV market.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #9 – August 30, 2014, 08:39:58 pm

Im NOT an electronic jedi master as some are.

Dumb question , will it interact with my solar array?

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #10 – August 30, 2014, 09:51:37 pm

Quote from: fouroureye – August 30, 2014, 08:39:58 pm

Im NOT an electronic jedi master as some are.

Dumb question , will it interact with my solar array?

I guess I'm close enough, except for the Jedi part,

It will co-exist nicely. It basically acts like a very smart isolator, sending power to the house battery as needed and acting like another 4-stage charger (just like the two you already have, one in the solar charge controller and one in the AC inverter/charger), and preventing the house power needs from draining the engine battery.

So they claim.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #11 – August 31, 2014, 08:39:22 am

Thanks Master Jedi, one more question. Do I still need my charge controller? Pretty sure my solar on-off switch is connected directly to the house battery.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #12 – August 31, 2014, 11:38:31 am

Here is a copy of his comment on solar-as that was also my question.
"Hi, John -

Sorry for the delay - we're taking (most of) the weekend off.

The alt-to-battery chargers have a separate output for the starting battery, which would make the splitter unnecessary in your configuration. You'd just bring the alternator output into the charger, and add a cable from the charger to each of the two battery banks. The owner's manual is attached - there is a digram on page 8 for your setup.

Side note on the isolators - the older style diode isolators drop the voltage about .6 volts, which keeps the batteries from getting completely charged. If you need to use a splitter for the solar or a 115v charger at any time, there are a number of relay-based options that pass along full voltage" end of quote.
You can get all the info you need by just contacting them with your question. I am thinking of using this and have to read the paperwork etc first. My solar does a good job of charging and is set up to give short bursts of 14.8v to the AGMs every 4 weeks to top up and yet not really equalize them. been like that for 3 yrs so far so good.
JohnH

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #13 – August 31, 2014, 11:52:14 am

John,

Was thinking that our RV alternators are identified as such and put out higher voltage to make up for the isolator drop so will keep the batteries at full voltage while driving. I'm usually around 14 volts on both sets while going down the road.

Pierce

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #14 – August 31, 2014, 12:24:13 pm

Pierce,

No, they are just externally regulated with the sense wire on the battery side of the isolator and its voltage eating diodes.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #15 – August 31, 2014, 01:19:09 pm

Brett, since you are into boating, have you seen these units or know anything about them, and what is your take on it?? The video gevs a good overview and I like the small time set up-simple- and his candor. Must be good if it was designed in the UK

JohnH

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #16 – August 31, 2014, 01:26:45 pm

Quote from: fouroureye – August 31, 2014, 08:39:22 am

Thanks Master Jedi, one more question. Do I still need my charge controller? Pretty sure my solar on-off switch is connected directly to the house battery.

Yes. The solar charge controller provides the correct voltage to your house batteries depending on need. Still needed when the sun is shining, unless you have a very small solar panel.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #17 – August 31, 2014, 01:35:32 pm

Thank you

Did anyone see the price? Couldn't find it

900watt Seimens

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #18 – August 31, 2014, 01:37:55 pm

John,

Here is what we use on the boat-- a smart regulator to control a high output alternator: http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/alternator-regulator.aspx

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #19 – August 31, 2014, 02:33:38 pm

The list price is shown on the page linked in my post at the top for Bay Marine Supply. This is the minimum advertised price, but if you add it to the cart you can see a more attractive price. No connection, but I have bought quite a few high dollar items from this site and always received excellent service. If (Alan is the proprietor's name and he has been or is a full timer living aboard his sail boat) he doesn't know the answer, he will call the manufacturer an get it... And then , actually call you back! Very refreshing in my experience

Don

Quote from: fouroureye – August 31, 2014, 01:35:32 pm

Thank you Did anyone see the price? Couldn't find it

900watt Seimens

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #20 – August 31, 2014, 02:42:27 pm

Got it thanks Don

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #21 – September 02, 2014, 07:26:52 pm

Quote from: Dave M – September 02, 2014, 07:13:20 pm

Being aware of my limits, I do not understand why this $330.00 magic is required for a 30 second fix if you are using the Leece Neville 160-180 amp alternator.

Does that alternator protect the batteries with a temperature compensated 4 stage charging profile? If yes, there is no need.

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #22 – September 02, 2014, 07:27:21 pm

Quote from: Dave M – September 02, 2014, 07:13:20 pm

Being aware of my limits, I do not understand why this $330.00 magic is required for a 30 second fix if you are using the Leece Neville 160-180 amp alternator.

There are always opportunities for "a better mouse trap". The forum encourages discussion of alternatives, especially if they offer additional benefits/improvements.

Looking at it a different way, since the horse and buggy worked so well, why do we need Foretravels

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #23 – September 02, 2014, 09:36:46 pm

I hear where Michelle and Dave are coming from. Sure is nice traveling down the road in a deluxe apartment where you don't have to dig a trench around the tent to keep dry at night and can watch the Dodgers play on a huge TV. On the other hand, the complexity of today's RVs have brought the prices down to a few pennies on the dollar once it's a few years old because of the cost of maintaining aging complex components. Imagine owning any late RV without a support forum like ours.

I remember a Mercedes Diesel out of the 1960's that I owned. You pulled a knob out on the dash with a rod connected to the injection pump, glow plugs and starter motor. In cold weather, you just held the knob in the glow position longer before pulling it further to start it. No timer, no micro processors, just your fingers and common sense. Also reached down to a handle to move the seat back and forth and used a crank to open and close the windows. Nothing ever went wrong with that car.

Pierce

Re: A smarter regulator for the alternator

Reply #24 – September 03, 2014, 02:23:58 am

Quote from: Tom Lang – September 02, 2014, 07:26:52 pm

Does that alternator protect the batteries with a temperature compensated 4 stage charging profile? If yes, there is no need.

The answer to that is "no". The "regulator" part of the Leece-Neville alternator system is extremely rudimentary. I think that several days of big miles could do some damage to some battery types.

I shut down the solar panel array (by tripping the circuit breaker in the closet) when we start the engines. I would actually prefer to shut off the alternator and just charge both battery banks (house and start) with the solar panels but there are some issues with shutting off alternators that are still rotating.

When we are parked, even with 50-amp, I typically let the solar panels do all the charging. I think that the Classic 150 is far more sophisticated than the Progressive Dynamics shore-power charger/converter as far as when to go to bulk mode and anti-sulfating.

Craig

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