6V92 silver ?

Topic: 6V92 silver ? (Read 1750 times) previous topic - next topic

6V92 silver ?

September 06, 2014, 07:31:17 pm

I have been talking to a guy that is selling a coach with a 6V92TA said odometer has 116000. The previous owner died. He said he thinks the engine was replaced by Detroit for some warranty issue a few years ago. My question I have read elsewhere in forums about Detroit replacing engines under warranty,If it was replaced what kind of problems were they having with them to need replacing? I am not sure if he actually knows the engine was replaced or not it is something he heard in the family,I was just wondering. I'm going to check it out hopefully next week,it's rough and has been sitting a couple years but I'll loosen the drain plug and make sure no water is in the sump and check the air boxes for mice nests and see if I can prime the fuel system and get it to fire.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #1 – September 06, 2014, 07:44:46 pm

Do you know anything else about this coach? Any actual records? Unless you can get some real documentation, then based on the information you've provided so far, I would probably run--rather than walk--away from this one.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #2 – September 06, 2014, 07:53:16 pm

I'm not running at all This might be a heck of a deal, I'm more than capable to bring a old unit back to life. I'll find out more when I can see it in person. I was just wondering if Detroit had had issues with silver 92's that would have warranted replacement. It might actually have the original engine in it The son in law thought he had heard, you know how that story can go.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #3 – September 06, 2014, 08:22:31 pm

Stump,

Could be a great deal depending. Any logs go with it? Open the engine compartment and photo or other means, get all of the information off the valve cover stickers. There should be two larger ones on the passenger's side and one on the driver's side along with some small stickers. One small one should say Foretravel on it. It's on the curb side toward the front and you can easily read it. Once you have the information, call Foretravel with it. Can go to a Detroit dealer with a Pro-Link 9000 or later device and read the engine serial number, horsepower, miles, mpg since new, gallons of diesel burned, fault codes and when they occurred, etc.

What year is it? If it has fairly plain tall valve covers, it's a later engine (350hp) with a Jake brake and will be side radiator. Embossed valve covers with Detroit Diesel in big letters are earlier engines (300hp) and rear radiator.

Possible engine replacement from broken hydraulic belt, overheating and operator error with the override switch (only on side radiator models). With the correct oil (as Dave noted) and half way bright operator, the DDEC makes it pretty bullet proof.

The metal tag next to the driver's seat has the month and year of manufacturer.

Side radiator models will have three 34 series engine batteries just inside the engine compartment door or you may have to look for them. As Dave says, if it's a warm day and you have good batteries, the engine should start almost instantly. If warning lights do not come on and it does not turn over, check the ignition solenoid under the flip up dash.

PM with questions.

Pierce

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #4 – September 07, 2014, 11:08:44 am

I got a E Mail last night with more information and pictures. Engine was replaced in 2007 I have new pictures of the engine. It is a rear radiator model. He is going to scan the documents and send them to me to see.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #5 – September 07, 2014, 12:37:55 pm

Can't tell much by those photos. Probably a 96" wide model. How many feet?

Pierce

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #6 – September 07, 2014, 01:30:17 pm

Stump, just a little suggestion. When posting pictures make them much bigger as those you posted are way too small (pixels) for people to look at for clarity.I made one of them bigger but as you took them in a low quality this is a bit blurred but the size is better.
JohnH

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #7 – September 07, 2014, 01:37:06 pm

Let me try this

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #8 – September 07, 2014, 02:09:49 pm

Perfect, thanks
JohnH

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #9 – September 07, 2014, 02:13:57 pm

Looks just like mine. Only reason I have ever heard of re-builds on 6V92 in motorhomes was letting them get too hot. Talked to a Bluebird owner who had to get his rebuilt due to heat - I think he said it was $15K. Need to keep the cooling system in top shape: Radiator clean inside and out, make sure dash gauge is accurate (Silverleaf is best), and fan belts in good condition and not slipping. These engines have electronic control (DDEC II) with an electronic transmission (with a retarder) making it impossible to drive it wrong (lugging) and cause damage - that is other than letting it get too hot (210 max). The DDEC will shut down engine for either 1)low oil pressure 2)low coolant 3) high oil temperature. There's a code for high coolant temperature but as far as I know no shut down for it. This is according to my FT owners manual. Someone once told me they added it to later models than mine. The DDEC is nice because you can floor it and it will regulate fuel so there is no over fueling (creating black smoke) - no need to regulate you foot on the pedal (other than temperature). Retarder does not have a joy stick - it comes on with brakes only. No option to add joystick since the retarder is all pneumatic control.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #10 – September 07, 2014, 02:48:00 pm

So John,

From reading your post you have a retarder in the Allison, Now I have Jake's on my 92 so there must have been alot of changes or combinations over the years. After having a mechanical 8 92 this (DDEC 2) is pretty cool. I would have to do all my own downshifting and watch my exhaust pipe to make sure i wasn't to deep into the throttle while pulling a big grade in my Eagle.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #11 – September 07, 2014, 04:49:05 pm

Quote from: Andy 2 – September 07, 2014, 02:48:00 pm

...I have Jake's on my 92 so there must have been alot of changes or combinations over the years.

For U300's: retarders before '92, and jakes after. The '95's changed quite a bit too: CAT engine with Jake and the HD4000 6 speed tranny.
The 1992 U300 changed a lot: 50 more hp, bigger tranny, side radiator, wide body, HW leveling, and Jake instead of retarder.
The Jake is a real outlier for Foretravel. Seems to only be on the '92-'95 U300's. I don't really know why. Maybe it made the tranny too long - too short a drive shaft to keep acceptable u-joint angles.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #12 – September 07, 2014, 05:57:58 pm

A couple of Detroits got dusted and required overhaul. Shop left one of the intake clamps off on one. Don't know about the other. Diesel pushers can get dusted quickly with air cleaner plumbing fault or installing a K&N filter.

Bill,

First position is Jake down one bank, second position is Jake both banks. Switch is labeled "retarder" but must have been left over from the retarder years. Will send schematic when we get home.

Jake was not a cheap option on the mechanical Detroits.

Pierce

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #13 – September 07, 2014, 06:13:45 pm

John,

DDEC goes into shut down mode at 210 degrees. Only way to ruin one is using the override switch.

Pierce

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #14 – September 07, 2014, 07:51:02 pm

Stump,

I would like to have a Silverleaf monitor like Bill Chaplin has or something similar. According to them there is an upgrade to DDEC II final version 154 to give you odometer readout. DDEC II and SilverLeaf Information | SilverLeaf Electronics, Inc.

I do have a Pro-Link 9000 with DDEC II and III 5.0 thanks to Pierce. The Pro-Link readout shows I have DDEC II level 131 and with the PROM upgrade I should be able to get odometer readings. I've also been able to clear all historical codes and my trip data. The last reading before reset showed 7.6 mpg with 7.2 overall if I use odometer mileage divided by total gallons used. I've also been able to run both manual and automatic cylinder cutout tests at 600 rpm and 1000 rpm with good results. It will hold a fast idle at 1000 rpm if you use the manual test. If you can get one with a DDEC II cartridge at a reasonable price a Pro-link will pay for itself the first time you use it. The manual that Pierce sent me says it can output to a printer, PC or monitor but I haven't tried that yet. I'll provide more info in the future when I get more familiar with it or can acquire an ATEC cartridge.

I really enjoy the DD6V92 Silver and the growl of the Jake. Just recently changed oil and filters and had the Allison serviced. The engine runs like a fine sewing machine, never runs hot and and only minor codes were present in the history. All codes have been cleared except for code 25 which means no codes when I flash the CEC light. Since servicing, the Allison 746 shifts very smoothly and with the lockup in 2nd gear feels like a 5 speed. I think this combination of a 350 Detroit with an Allison 746 works very well on my 36 footer. Not the best mpg, but very rugged, reliable and a real step up in class compared to the "97 Minnie Winnie I used to own. You've got some of the best experts here if you decide to pull the trigger.

Jerry

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #15 – September 07, 2014, 09:53:54 pm

Dave,

Way back in '73, it was a thousand dollar option on the 8V-71s but our department was too cheap to order it on the re-powers. I have heard, perhaps incorrectly, that a retarder adds $10K to the price. We had one on an International with over 9000 lbs of liquid on board. Worked well. Big yellow light if we used it too much and the tranny got hot.

The Jake works best on a two cycle at higher RPM but is still great to have.

Did you know Jacobs (Jake) is the same guy that invented the Jacobs chuck for drills? Jake brake was patented by Clessie Cummins in 1962.

Pierce

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #16 – September 08, 2014, 12:21:45 am

Hi we just bought a GV U300 whith a detroit. It´s a '88 whith retarder and jake. Rides sweet, and around 9-10mpg. We'll do our best to keep it like this.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #17 – September 08, 2014, 01:11:20 am

Quote from: JohnFitz – September 07, 2014, 04:49:05 pm

For U300's: retarders before '92, and jakes after. The '95's changed quite a bit too: CAT engine with Jake and the HD4000 6 speed tranny.
The 1992 U300 changed a lot: 50 more hp, bigger tranny, side radiator, wide body, HW leveling, and Jake instead of retarder.
The Jake is a real outlier for Foretravel. Seems to only be on the '92-'95 U300's. I don't really know why. Maybe it made the tranny too long - too short a drive shaft to keep acceptable u-joint angles.

I have the JAKE on my 95 U320. I seem to remember the previous owner telling me he wanted the JAKE when buying the coach new, he did NOT want the retarder, and paid over $5000 extra for the JAKE.
I'm not sure how true this story is, but, I know that the JAKE on my Cummins MII Celect pulls the coach down in speed like throwing a big anchor.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #18 – September 08, 2014, 07:46:35 pm

I took my 1991 6V92TA with DDEC to Stewart & Stevenson in Dallas, because they're the Detroit Diesel / Allison service center. They plugged their hand held interface into my DDEC and downloaded the information, then went inside and plugged it into their desktop computer and printed out everything that had ever been done to my coach including the date, name, and location of each service center and what work was done... They did block out the previous owner's name but I can kinda tell it was someone in Nashville... So take the coach to a Detroit service center and have them print out all the information for you.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #19 – September 08, 2014, 08:09:41 pm

I have a prolink reader with DDEC2 and 3 on it, Scott is the connection for the reader the Round plug or the rectangle plug. I have both. My 95 Peterbilt has the round 6 pin plug but I am not sure what they used in 91 on the DDEC2.

Re: 6V92 silver ?

Reply #20 – September 08, 2014, 08:46:01 pm

Stump,

Look a few inches back under the dash on the far left. It should be a rectangular plug with a removable cover. My DDEC II factory manual only shows the rectangular plug. Let me know if you don't have the manual. It's good for a 1000 RPM fast idle as well as the other stuff.

They do have a printer for it and Jerry found out the manufacture but one of the LCD readouts says, "connect to PC using 501010 adapter." I have not been able to find that number anywhere online. Might have to make one from scratch. Snap-On is the new owner. I called the support number but they want to sell new models and not very helpful on the legacy models. Can't be too "legacy" as the builder of the Australian twin turbo 6V-92TA was using it on his bench in the YouTube video.

It's an inexpensive tool if you watch ebay, easy to use and will pay for itself 10x over, the first time you take it to a shop to have them tell you the same thing or test your engine. If I could only find the Cummins, CAT, Allison, ABS cartridges for it at a good price.

1995 is DDEC III and uses the SAE Deutsch plug, a round, 6 pin plug.

Pierce

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