M11 Oil Capacity

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M11 Oil Capacity

October 01, 2014, 07:15:18 pm

I'm trying to get the correct information on the oil capacity for my M11. The Foretravel book indicates 43 quarts including the filter, however, when I fill the crankcase from empty it takes substantially less to reach the full mark on the dipstick.

I called Cummins and gave them my engine number and the number stamped on the oil pan. Cummins said it is a 9 gallon oil pan, just like most other M11 pans. So I could pour 9 gallons into an empty pan and another gallon into my filter and I'd have a 40 quart system. This will register waaaaay high on my dipstick.

Cummins says they installed the plate that bolts to the block and the tube but Foretravel installed the dip stick. I'm going to call JamesT and ask him what the deal is. How much are other members putting in their M11 engines? When I get it right, I'll mark my dipstick accordingly. Thanks.
jor

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #1 – October 01, 2014, 08:10:42 pm

Recent oil change 36 qts including filter.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #2 – October 01, 2014, 08:48:48 pm

When FT fixed my drain plug they charged me for 38 qts.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #3 – October 01, 2014, 08:56:41 pm

FWIW, I run a gal low and keep an eye on it. No oil used at this reduced level.
I put 8 gals in mine with no issues to date. Scribe a mark on the dip stick where it stops using oil and see how it runs. Don't be worried with it being a little low. The engine bay will stay clean(r) if nothing else. pc

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #4 – October 01, 2014, 09:40:45 pm

So far with the same engine we have 32, 36, 38 and 40 quarts. Yikes! I've been running like pc, at least a gallon low. Why are you doing that by the way? I would think running low would cause higher oil temps. What is the advantage? Anyone else?
Thanks.
jor

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #5 – October 02, 2014, 07:24:44 am

I recommend filling with the quantity stated by Cummins, and then marking the dipstick appropriately. There are too many opportunities for the dipstick to have been inaccurately calibrated over the years. I suspect many people actually operate with less than the full oil quantity specified by Cummins without any problems, but why take the chance?

I checked the Cummins documentation online and it appears as if the M-11 and ISM engines require 10 gallons in the sump and the filter prefilled. That's what I did at my last oil change. I just checked the oil level (after a 1500 mile trip) and the oil level is still about where it was when I changed it. There has been no oil escaping out any vent tubes. I believe (based on the Cummins documentation and my own experience) that 10 gallons in the sump plus the prefilled filled filter is the correct amount.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #6 – October 02, 2014, 09:10:18 pm

With the pan off and filled with 32 qts., right up to 40 qts., the pan is so large that the difference in the lube level is small in relation to the 10 gallon full level.

Why do I run less oil?
I don't have an engine that uses oil (which is the reason for the extra 2 gals of oil) & for whoever that builds the engine to cover having to deal with operators that are less than attentive.
I've operated diesel engines for decades and I check oil levels every time I go somewhere.
If you rarely go to the trouble of going through this procedure, by all means fill the sump.

It's your unit, treat it accordingly. Someone asked.. that's my response.. take it or ;>)

Back to the OP, if you have an engine that's using oil (blowing, etc., for whatever unknown reason, there is a good chance your unit does not like having that level of oil in the sump. Try not filling it so full.. and see what happens. No harm done.. pc

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #7 – October 03, 2014, 08:33:35 am

Quote from: pocketchange – October 02, 2014, 09:10:18 pm

Why do I run less oil?
I don't have an engine that uses oil (which is the reason for the extra 2 gals of oil) & for whoever that builds the engine to cover having to deal with operators that are less than attentive.

I check my oil level regularly and my engine doesn't use oil. However, I choose to follow the manufacturer's recommendations for two reasons:
1. I don't know more about the engine than does the manufacturer.
2. I like to operate with the recommended amount of oil for the same reason I have insurance: I hope I don't need to use it, but it sure is nice to have just in case. There is no "down side" other than a little expense, and there is a big "up side" when needed!

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #8 – October 03, 2014, 11:09:25 am

Quote

I checked the Cummins documentation online and it appears as if the M-11 and ISM engines require 10 gallons in the sump and the filter prefilled.

David, if you get a chance, crawl under there and note the numbers on your pan. When I told the Cummins Help line that I had an M11 he said, "You probably have a 38957. That's. a 9 gallon pan." I gave him all the numbers on the pan:
3895278
3895954
3895556
3895957

Anyhow, with the pan holding 9 and the filter another gallon, we're at the ten gallons you note in your post.

pc, thanks for the explanation re preferring to run at a level below noted requirement.
jor

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #9 – October 03, 2014, 11:49:03 am

Before I would let the oil get too low, remember there is no oil cooler and the sides of the oil pan help keep the oil temperature down. Most HD diesels have hollow piston crowns with oil squirted up into the crowns to cool the pistons and then draining back as well as the returning turbocharger oil adding to the oil temperature. Summer temperatures and steep grades add up to elevated oil temperature. Before shutting down, remember the oil temperature cools much more slowly than the coolant so important to fast idle for a while after the temp gauge has come down removing the possibility of the oil "coking" up in the turbo. Excess heat is the enemy of petroleum oil.

I don't let our Detroit drop much below the full mark and it never gets the toad dirty. While it take 5.5 gallons to change, I buy 7 gallons so I can top it off as necessary between changes.

If you do have a breather tube/hose, it's easy to make a heavy duty canister with the breather going into the top and the pipe at the bottom extending almost to the top of the canister and the inside filled with coarse steel wool with a quick drain at the bottom. This allows the engine to breathe while keeping the back and toad oil free. I have made a small version for aircraft and it made a huge difference keeping the bottom clean.

Pierce

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #10 – October 03, 2014, 12:36:59 pm

Quote from: jor – October 03, 2014, 11:09:25 am

David,
Anyhow, with the pan holding 9 and the filter another gallon, we're at the ten gallons you note in your post.

The oil filter holds a lot of oil, but it doesn't hold 1.3 gallons. Therefore, if only 9 gallons are poured into the crankcase, the overall amount will be below that which Cummins specifies. I don't want to start out below what they state as the engine's capacity.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #11 – October 03, 2014, 09:58:53 pm

Quote

The oil filter holds a lot of oil, but it doesn't hold 1.3 gallons. Therefore, if only 9 gallons are poured into the crankcase, the overall amount will be below that which Cummins specifies. I don't want to start out below what they state as the engine's capacity.

Cummins says the oil pan is a 9 gallon pan so I figure I've got 9 gallons plus the filter. I'm going to change the oil tomorrow. I intend to fill my filter, attach it and pour 9 gallons into the pan. I'm going to scribe my dip stick at that level. I'm taking off in a week or so (finally) so we'll see how it goes.
jor

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #12 – October 04, 2014, 08:21:36 am

Quote from: jor – October 03, 2014, 09:58:53 pm

Cummins says the oil pan is a 9 gallon pan so I figure I've got 9 gallons plus the filter. I'm going to change the oil tomorrow. I intend to fill my filter, attach it and pour 9 gallons into the pan. I'm going to scribe my dip stick at that level. I'm taking off in a week or so (finally) so we'll see how it goes.

Cummins say the total oil system capacity is 10.3 gallons. Does that statement from Cummins matter to you?

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #13 – October 04, 2014, 08:51:55 am

Quote

I checked the Cummins documentation online and it appears as if the M-11 and ISM engines require 10 gallons in the sump and the filter prefilled.

Actually, in reading your statement I was thinking you were saying 10 gallons with the filter. As I indicated above, I am getting the 9 gallon pan figure from the Cummins hotline. That's why I asked you to check your pan number as Cummins matched mine with the 9 gallon capacity.
jor

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #14 – October 04, 2014, 09:26:34 am

Quote from: jor – October 04, 2014, 08:51:55 am

Actually, in reading your statement I was thinking you were saying 10 gallons with the filter. As I indicated above, I am getting the 9 gallon pan figure from the Cummins hotline. That's why I asked you to check your pan number as Cummins matched mine with the 9 gallon capacity.

Cummins lists the oil system capacity of the M11 as 10.3 gallons. That's what I go by. The oil pan may be a "9 gallon" oil pan, but I still go by the listed oil system capacity. The "oil system" is composed of more than just the oil pan.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #15 – October 04, 2014, 10:18:47 am

So thats why OF, PO filed a mark on the dipstick

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #16 – October 04, 2014, 11:23:50 am

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – October 04, 2014, 09:26:34 am

Cummins lists the oil system capacity of the M11 as 10.3 gallons. That's what I go by. The oil pan may be a "9 gallon" oil pan, but I still go by the listed oil system capacity. The "oil system" is composed of more than just the oil pan.

There is more than one m11 pan as far as I know. Our coaches use the shorter one for more ground clearance is my understanding. Aluminum also instead of steel.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #17 – October 06, 2014, 10:33:50 am

The large Foretravel book provided when our motorhome was new shows the M11 oil capacity as 43 quarts. I'm not sure where they got that figure since the documents I've seen from Cummins shows the M11 and ISM oil capacities as 10.3 gallons (39 liters).

The Cummins M11 document I have shows an engine with a large rear-sump pan. That pan may hold more than the aluminum pan that's on our motorhomes. According to Cummins, the pan on our motorhomes is a "9 gallon" pan. I also have seen that the oil pan in ISM engines used in MCI coaches appears to be the "9 gallon" pan. The oil filter I use is an LF3000, which is the large one, and I understand holds 0.8 gallon (3 liters) of oil.

Therefore, it would appear as if the oil capacity for the M11 engines in our Foretravels should be 9.8 gallons, with 9 gallons in the sump and 0.8 gallon in the filter.

I apologize for any confusing information I may have earlier presented.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #18 – October 06, 2014, 12:50:26 pm

Well, it doesn't take much to confuse me, so after seeing all the replies I went and checked my invoices for oil changes on my 02 ISM450.

Premier, here in Tucson totaled 35 quarts

FOT, totaled 30 quarts

Transwest (Washington), totaled 33 quarts

Hal Burns (Santa Fe) totaled 32 quarts

I always check stick after an oil change.. always right on the full mark.

SO, seems I am no help what so ever..

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #19 – October 06, 2014, 01:37:58 pm

Quote from: Dave M – October 06, 2014, 12:25:55 pm

Filters for Cumins M series appear to have changed, the early units used the LF3000, however my ISM uses the LF9070, not sure when the change happened but it looks like it did, so if in doubt, with engne number in hand, ask Cummins which you need.
Better yet, open your own acct with Cummins Quick Serve and help your self to lot of info instead of opinions.

I did finally create a Quickserve account. It's easy to do and there's a lot of useful information there.

As far as I can tell, the LF3000 is still sufficient for the older engines, but the newer ones need the LF9070, which includes (among other things) a "venturi nozzle." The details for that filter can be found at http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/pdfs/product_lit/americas_brochures/PD10012.pdf My understanding is that the higher-technology LF9009 can also be used on the older engines for which the LF3000 was originally specified.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #20 – October 06, 2014, 03:01:26 pm

The LF3000 replaement is LF9009
The LF9070 has a shorter LF9080 version
Can not find list for a LF9007
We use a lot of Fleetguard Filters

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #21 – October 06, 2014, 07:39:01 pm

Quote from: Dave M – October 06, 2014, 03:01:26 pm

The LF3000 replaement is LF9009
The LF9070 has a shorter LF9080 version
Can not find list for a LF9007
We use a lot of Fleetguard Filters

I originally wrote "LF9007" and then later realized it should have been "LF9070" and then corrected my error. As far as I know there is no "LF 9007." Sorry!

The LF3000 appears to still be available; The LF9009 shows as being the same physical size but has their "venturi" technology for improved filtering.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #22 – April 17, 2021, 07:32:28 pm

Opening a 7 year old topic. I just did the engine and trans oil and filter change. When I got to 9 gal of engine oil the dipstick read full. With 10 gal. it read on the V of overfilled. I filed the correct full mark for the first time since I have owned the coach. This has been discussed many time it seems but I had missed it until today.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #23 – April 17, 2021, 09:00:24 pm

38 qts on my ISM11 including the filter. Specs say 36-38 qts. Always double check after running the engine.

Re: M11 Oil Capacity

Reply #24 – April 17, 2021, 09:26:02 pm

Chuck,

With that much discrepancy in the dip stick you need to contact Cummins with your engine number. They will tell you the oil pan that your engine has and the correct amount of oil needed. I would bet your is like ours with the numbers you just posted as ours takes only 36 per Cummins.

Mike

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