Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Topic: Waste tanks not protected from cold. (Read 1496 times) previous topic - next topic

Waste tanks not protected from cold.

October 05, 2014, 03:57:51 pm

Our black water and gray water tanks are exposed to the elements. Our old Class C had furnace vent in the holding compartment but nothing on the GV.
Has anyone retrofitted enclosures/insulation/heat to their tanks on these old classics?

If so, what did you do, use, and how?

I am thinking about a remedy so we could go to a workkamping offer in North Texas. They do and did get snow and freezing temps a few times last winter so I would want to be prepared for occasional bouts of cold or snow.

Thanks.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #1 – October 05, 2014, 04:08:44 pm

I have that problem on my Born Free. There answer was to put antifreeze in the tanks but I still broke the pipe coming out of the black tank and had to replace that. There is no real way to protect them from the cold and guarantee it will work. I survived a few years then it broke. THe FT has no issue down to below 0 so far but my tanks are enclosed. I guess I am saying tank heaters that you attach did not work and will not work 100 percent. Enclosed tanks and heat will.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #2 – October 05, 2014, 04:26:00 pm

Nighthawk, our 88 we had the same setup as yours. We watched the weather and dumped when the temp dipped. Put some antifreeze after we dumped. Went thru 2 gallons. Worked last winter.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #3 – October 05, 2014, 04:54:01 pm

A 1989 ORED has tanks that are exposed to the weather? They're not enclosed inside the insulated cargo bay with vents from the rear propane furnace like the 1991 U300 has? Is this because of the chassis frame rails? ...Sorry to ask questions within a question.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #4 – October 05, 2014, 05:07:26 pm

Tank Blanket - 20 Gallon, AC - Twenty-six Eleven Llc 61002 - Holding Tank

RV Holding Tank Heater on Sale - PPL Motor Homes

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #5 – October 05, 2014, 05:34:17 pm

Scott, ours were completely open and were supported by a unistrut, no heat

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #6 – October 05, 2014, 05:58:13 pm

Our gray water tank is between the frame rails. The black water tank is on the driver's side, outside the frame rail, and just in front of the duals--Scary if you have a tire blow on that side, seeing as how there is zero protection !!
The gray tank is supported on 1-1/2" angle iron and suspended from above by threaded rods. I don't recall the black tank suspension, but will have to crawl under the coach Tuesday if it isn't raining.
The dump valves compartment is just forward of the black water tank. The black tank valve piping and valve go forward and meet the gray water tank valve coming from the pass side. Combined exit is just short of the compartment door and, with a 90 deg clear elbow, exits down to the third valve.
The dump compartment also has the inverter mounted on the ceiling.

I have been thinking about enclosing the tanks and then running the ducting that runs along the driver's side to the bathroom and prior to that, right below the frig., as the kitchen gets plenty of heat anyway.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #7 – October 05, 2014, 06:09:09 pm

I am guessing that the black tank is in front of duals but covered by a thick layer of foam that actually forms part of the shape of the wheel well, as is on the 93 ORED that we owned many years ago. I had a crack in the bottom of tank so that I had to remove it and weld it with ABS rods. When I removed it (supported on an angle iron and held up as you say by threaded rods) I found an electric pad under it and this was connected to a relay as was all the underfloor heating. If it were me I would cut all the foam out and remove tank (or slacken rods to insert one of these low wattage pads under it or tape one to the side and refoam it in place). It is easy to take this foam off and redo, then spray with some of that Black rubber underbody seal. Use a 12v pad and I think you will be fine.
JohnH

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #8 – October 05, 2014, 06:12:57 pm

I have seen heating pads installed under the tanks on oreds.

Battery heaters would help the amps as temp drops.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #9 – October 05, 2014, 06:21:46 pm

I have found that just putting a heat tape on the drain piping to both tanks does the job. If the water in the tank does freeze, it won't break anything because it is an open tank and the frozen water can expand. The heat tape on the piping also keeps the valves from being frozen stuck and possibly breaking. A gallon of antifreeze in each tank after discharge is added insurance. I have also used a fan heater on the piping and valves and that worked well. A little over-kill though! As for me this winter, It's drive further south. Have a great day ---- Fritz

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #10 – October 05, 2014, 07:26:52 pm

Everyone is talking antifreeze and its 81F at 6:30 here. Ran the coach because it has been a month and had the air conditioners on.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #11 – October 05, 2014, 08:22:00 pm

On our past Foretravel and now in the Prevost, we removed all the tanks and wrapped the tanks in electric heater blankets. In addition, we also have covered all exposed piping leading to the tanks. This heating works on 110 volts. Since we are in Alaska at times in the winter months for work, we needed to ensure the coach is well equipped to handle the weather. We have never had a freezing issue in eight years. This has worked and we have been in weather -20+ temperatures. Needless to say that when temps are this low, starting an engine without being on a pre heater and a thermal blanket thrown on top to keep the warmth in, is not possible. We probably have had a Foretravel in the coldest weather in the history of this company.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #12 – October 05, 2014, 08:34:06 pm

The 93 I mentioned earlier was built for a couple who lived in Banff Alberta and all water lines had metal clad heating tape and all under belly was insulated with a dropped (6'") metal & insulated framework. Foretravel made one only and this was it. James T told me at the time I owned it that they lost money on it as did not price the extra work needed correctly.
Built for continude sub freezing weather.
JohnH

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #13 – October 05, 2014, 11:48:35 pm

Quote from: bobnkathy – October 05, 2014, 08:22:00 pm

On our past Foretravel and now in the Prevost, we removed all the tanks and wrapped the tanks in electric heater blankets. In addition, we also have covered all exposed piping leading to the tanks. This heating works on 110 volts. Since we are in Alaska at times in the winter months for work, we needed to ensure the coach is well equipped to handle the weather. We have never had a freezing issue in eight years. This has worked and we have been in weather -20+ temperatures. Needless to say that when temps are this low, starting an engine without being on a pre heater and a thermal blanket thrown on top to keep the warmth in, is not possible. We probably have had a Foretravel in the coldest weather in the history of this company.

By accident we took a 88 ORED as-is into colorado -30 weather. Stupid. Froze everything including all the new batteries. You prepared. No fair.

Still was exciting.

Unicoach not as much of a problem. Anyone done serious cold in an aquahot unicoach?

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #14 – October 05, 2014, 11:52:27 pm

Quote from: sedelange – October 05, 2014, 07:26:52 pm

Everyone is talking antifreeze and its 81F at 6:30 here. Ran the coach because it has been a month and had the air conditioners on.

I agree. ran the rear air this afternoon at silver strand beach in coronado, ca. 78 on the sand. No wind.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #15 – October 06, 2014, 11:10:11 am

Our dump valves--gray and black--are in the same compartment as the inverter and the two PVC tubes that stick down and out toward the center of the coach. the third valve and the 90 degree elbow are down thru an opening in the compartment floor. Lots of openings for cold air to get in, but I do use a thermostatically controlled electric space heater in the compartment to keep the valves from freezing. No foam or insulation anywhere on either tank so anything would help.
I have a little experience with heat pads and electrical tapes. Problem with them is when they fail you don't know until it is too late. I am a bit of a "Rube Goldberg" so always contemplating ways of doing things that will accomplish my goal and yet minimize any supervision. Ducted heat from the front furnace and enclosing the tanks should do the job.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #16 – October 06, 2014, 12:00:22 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – October 06, 2014, 11:10:11 am

Our dump valves--gray and black--are in the same compartment as the inverter and the two PVC tubes that stick down and out toward the center of the coach. the third valve and the 90 degree elbow are down thru an opening in the compartment floor. Lots of openings for cold air to get in, but I do use a thermostatically controlled electric space heater in the compartment to keep the valves from freezing. No foam or insulation anywhere on either tank so anything would help.
I have a little experience with heat pads and electrical tapes. Problem with them is when they fail you don't know until it is too late. I am a bit of a "Rube Goldberg" so always contemplating ways of doing things that will accomplish my goal and yet minimize any supervision. Ducted heat from the front furnace and enclosing the tanks should do the job.

Good points. Seen the blankets fail also. Availability of inexpensive harbor freight infrared heat guns sure make troubleshooting things heat related easier. $27 tool

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #17 – October 09, 2014, 02:16:25 pm

Last winter we had our 03 u320 in Nebraska for 3 months and it got to -15 with a wind at times of 60 mph and the aqua hot did its thing with no problems whatever.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #18 – October 09, 2014, 03:20:00 pm

Quote from: red tractor – October 09, 2014, 02:16:25 pm

Last winter we had our 03 u320 in Nebraska for 3 months and it got to -15 with a wind at times of 60 mph and the aqua hot did its thing with no problems whatever.

Yes, but OP Nighthawk has a 1989 GV ORED. No AquaHot, exposed tanks.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #19 – October 09, 2014, 06:08:17 pm

On my 1990 U300 there's a 110 outlet in the bay where all tanks are. I just plug in a small ceramic heater, set on 45 degrees, all good.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #20 – October 09, 2014, 10:22:18 pm

My tanks aren't in a bay. They are behind or back of the bays. The Valterra dump valves are in a bay, along with the Parallax power supply converter/battery charger, a 120 V outlet on the ceiling of the bay, an electric space heater, thermostatically controlled, and two tubes of PVC that contain the drain hoses.

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #21 – October 10, 2014, 11:03:52 am

So the ORED does not have bays. The tanks are strapped to the frame rails

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #22 – October 10, 2014, 11:15:18 am

The tanks are fastened very securely to metal framework hanging from frame. Not the best way but heck most TT etc have the same setup if I am not mistaken and they work fine!
Johnh

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #23 – October 10, 2014, 12:27:42 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – October 10, 2014, 11:15:18 am

The tanks are fastened very securely to metal framework hanging from frame. Not the best way but heck most TT etc have the same setup if I am not mistaken and they work fine!
Johnh

It was referred to as saddle bagging in the industry

Re: Waste tanks not protected from cold.

Reply #24 – October 10, 2014, 06:58:37 pm

Sorry to be so stoopid, but is it really that unusual to have insulated tanks in a heated compartment on a high end motor coach? Don't other manufacturers besides Foretravel equip their coaches for cold weather? My U300 is the only coach I've ever owned and last winter was the first cold weather I've been in with it. I saw a bunch of travel trailers freeze their valves and pipes but I didn't have any trouble. I was kind of shocked to see a shiny new Airstream with frozen pipes / valves and exposed tanks. Those are the most expensive travel trailers you can buy aren't they?

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