Stuck on the fuel isle

Topic: Stuck on the fuel isle (Read 2722 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #25 – October 15, 2014, 11:36:55 pm

I am thinking of perhaps replacing the fuel solenoid myself. The wires are really toasted so I will have to cut out the fried wires and splice new wires in. When I look at it it does not seem like rocket science. Has anybody done this themselves and are there gremlins hiding in the closet?

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #26 – October 15, 2014, 11:45:32 pm

Quote from: John S – October 15, 2014, 02:56:08 pm

I do not shut my coach down till I am ready to stop for the night if I am driving all day. It is a habit and it rarely idles more then a couple mins as I fuel up or walk the dogs and I usually travel 8 to 10 hours in a day.

All fuel islands have signs that instruct to shut off engine when fueling. I have always done this. No More. I will not shut the coach down while fueling. We do not usually shut it down when we take a break either.

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #27 – October 16, 2014, 12:05:06 am

Quote from: Roland Begin – October 15, 2014, 11:36:55 pm

I am thinking of perhaps replacing the fuel solenoid myself. The wires are really toasted so I will have to cut out the fried wires and splice new wires in. When I look at it it does not seem like rocket science. Has anybody done this themselves and are there gremlins hiding in the closet?

I just replaced my fuel shutoff solenoid recently. Purchased the new unit on eBay. Not a difficult job, but I did run into a problem with the throttle cable bracket. The new solenoid and the new bracket that comes with it fit perfectly - no problem there. HOWEVER, due to the larger size of the new solenoid, my throttle cable bracket would not fit. On my engine, it is held by two of the same bolts that attach the solenoid bracket. Basically what I had to do was modify the throttle cable bracket so it could be moved "inboard" (toward the injection pump) about 1/4". This required drilling 2 new mounting holes, and removing some material from the bracket. Not a big deal - can be done easily with basic hand tools. Your setup may be different, and you might not have the same problem. Just thought I'd mention it.
Photo of new solenoid (Cummins part # 4089574) and modified bracket below.

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #28 – October 16, 2014, 08:14:41 am

Quote from: Roland Begin – October 15, 2014, 11:45:32 pm

All fuel islands have signs that instruct to shut off engine when fueling. I have always done this. No More. I will not shut the coach down while fueling.

I'm just like you, Roland. All my life I have shut off my car or truck engine when fueling, because that's what I was taught to do. But since buying the Foretravel (my first ever diesel powered vehicle), I have noticed that most truck drivers (big rigs) do not shut off their engines while fueling. I just made a fuel run to the local Flying J yesterday, and observed that 9 out of the 11 trucks at the fuel pumps had their engines running. Also, at the truck pumps, I did not see any signs saying "Turn Off Engines While Fueling". Like you, I am going to change my procedure, and leave my (diesel) engine running. I see 2 benefits: first - I avoid the exact problem you had with a very inconvenient No-Start. Second - in the summertime, it keeps the dash air going (ours works) for the comfort of the crew.

One other thought - on the big trucks, the fuel tanks are in close proximity to the (running) engine and hot exhaust pipes. On our coaches, the engines, exhaust, and most other obvious ignition sources are separated from the fuel tank by the length of the coach. Which makes us "safer" in this situation, IMHO.

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #29 – October 16, 2014, 10:22:59 am

If I recall when I replaced the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid on my 8.3 the first time it came with a new bracket that fit the new style. The second Solenoid fit easily.
Gary B

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #30 – October 16, 2014, 10:38:57 am

Quote from: Gary Bouland – October 16, 2014, 10:22:59 am

If I recall when I replaced the Fuel Shutoff Solenoid on my 8.3 the first time it came with a new bracket that fit the new style.

Gary - Correct - photos of contents of box:

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #31 – October 16, 2014, 10:48:23 am

When we had starting hesitation problems, one of the things we did was to change everything on the isolator panel, other than the isolator itself. New relays, circuit breakers, solenoids. Cleaned up all connections with Dremel wire brush. Not hard to do. Used ordinary parts, including not expensive continuous duty solenoids. We added Trik-L-Start and fuel shut off delay, moved alternator battery sense to new fused wire directly to start battery.

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #32 – October 16, 2014, 11:15:16 am

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – October 16, 2014, 10:48:23 am

When we had starting hesitation problems, one of the things we did was to change everything on the isolator panel, other than the isolator itself. New relays, circuit breakers, solenoids. Cleaned up all connections with Dremel wire brush. moved alternator battery sense to new fused wire directly to start battery.

That's my plan

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #33 – October 16, 2014, 11:29:21 am

I think you guys are chasing the wrong problems if you have slow/problems starting. The system is not that complex and was designed well.

My batteries are a few years old, I don't use boost, don't have a trickle charger hooked up (yet), and I went and cranked it over after sitting 3 weeks (I went to crank instantly, didn't wait for the inlet heater) and it cranked up in 2 cranks.

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #34 – October 16, 2014, 11:46:07 am

Quote from: krush – October 16, 2014, 11:29:21 am

I think you guys are chasing the wrong problems if you have slow/problems starting. The system is not that complex and was designed well.

Cleaning up the isolator board is preventing a problem versus chasing one. The components on that board are exposed to all the splash and crap from the rear tires. After twenty plus years it needs a bit of attention. May take Brett's approach and move thee board under the bed.

Roland

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #35 – October 16, 2014, 12:24:18 pm

Roland, exactly, that is called "preventitive maintenance' and is sound thought for such a simple-cheap job. If you do the service of solenoid as I mention then the total cost of other parts is around $20.
What is not good about that? While you are at it cut a piece of rubber or? about the size of panel and fasten it to top edge so it hangs down over these electrical items giving it at least some sort of protection from spray etc.
JohnH

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #36 – October 16, 2014, 01:07:56 pm

Or move all of it up under the bed like Brett did.

Pierce

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #37 – October 16, 2014, 04:49:20 pm

We chose not to relocate the components on the isolator board, but do have it all covered in clear heavy plastic to help it ward off rear tire splashes.

And after all of our new components, we still had some start hesitation. Even though we had previously had the starter rebuilt, the only thing that completely fixed our start hesitation was a new starter, Delco 10478818 12v 41MT

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #38 – October 16, 2014, 05:32:04 pm

I guess in 1998 they moved all these components to up under the bed. I lean over the 120v ATS with the bed up to reach my Aux start solenoid and A/C condenser fan relay, etc.

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #39 – October 18, 2014, 04:42:58 pm

Ok, I started on my repairs yesterday. I cleaned off all the contacts on the isolator board and the alternator. I wired the isolator board per the schematic, well almost.The mystery wire is white all wires going to the battery side of the aux relay are red per the schematic. I haven't traced that wire yet but I suspect it goes to the fuel shutoff solenoid and should be on the battery side. Should be getting my solenoid on Monday or Tuesday so next week will be devoted to the fuel shutoff solenoid and its wiring. I cleaned off the connectors to the start batteries, installed new batery terminals applied dielectric grease and buttoned up that section. Have to return to the isolator board and apply dielectric grease on those connections. Enough time to watch some football.

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #40 – October 20, 2014, 05:10:36 pm

I received the new solenoid today. I need to fabricate a pigtail as I melted the connectors on the fuel shutoff solenoid. I cannot find a wiring diagram for the fuel shutoff solenoid in my documents. Want to make sure I get this right. Anyone have that wiring schematic?

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #41 – October 20, 2014, 05:26:41 pm

Hey, I just found the "typical" wiring on Beamalarm. Google brought me right there.

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #42 – October 21, 2014, 05:24:31 pm

OK the mysterious white wire goes to the aux start solenoid and is on the starter side. This energizes the coil that fully opens the fuel stop solenoid. Mine was "hot" because it was shorted out. Should have the new solenoid in tomorrow and this adventure will be finished.

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #43 – October 21, 2014, 06:09:55 pm

It is a very satisfying feeling when you finally figure out the solution to one of those electrical "Puzzles". Congratulations!

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #44 – October 21, 2014, 09:54:27 pm

Roland, are you saying your aux start solenoid was stuck closed, which burned out the two solenoids? Or was something earlier in the starter circuit causing the aux to close?

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #45 – October 22, 2014, 08:55:19 am

Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – October 14, 2014, 07:26:36 pm

Roland,
I don't have the A-4752 remote start wiring diagram.
Pierce

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #46 – October 22, 2014, 10:15:51 am

Barry my original problem was a bad aux start solenoid. My real troubles started when I crawled under there and moved the wires from the starter side to the battery side. Wasn't thinking, wanted to get off the isle so I got out from underneath to move the coach while everything was melting. By the time I got to the driver's seat the coach died. That cooked the starter, starter solenoid, fuel shutoff solenoid and melted the connector for the fuel shutoff solenoid. Somehow the white wire which is the wired to the "pull" coil of that solenoid was shorted to to +12VDC that's why it was always "hot" when the mechanic checked it out. The wiring was very confusing as the manuals do not show the fuel shutoff wiring scheme. I did not find the wiring for that solenoid until a couple days ago on the Beamalarm site. I have a new relay, wired up a new connector and checked voltages on the solenoid. Got 12 volts on the black (hold) wire with ignition on and 12V on the white (pull) wire with the key in the start position. Everything is good, all I need to do is install the new solenoid. Then deal with the starter.

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #47 – October 22, 2014, 10:36:58 am

Barry,

Thanks for the schematic!

Pierce

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #48 – October 22, 2014, 01:54:10 pm

Barry, I called Joe Trianna three days ago to ask where the schematic for the fuel shutoff solenoid was. THEN I googled wiring diagram for fuel shutoff solenoid and it brought me right to Beamalarm. Joe returned my call after I had the information and I told him where I found it. Shoulda gone to Beamalarm first. Heck if I would have gone there first I would have saved a lot of heartache and $$$.

Roland

Re: Stuck on the fuel isle

Reply #49 – October 22, 2014, 07:16:54 pm

EVERYBODY with a Foretravel should have Beamalarm book marked. Sheesh.

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