Help! Newbie towing math...

Topic: Help! Newbie towing math... (Read 830 times) previous topic - next topic

Help! Newbie towing math...

November 13, 2014, 01:15:27 am

Good evening my RV savvy friends. This is my first post and wouldn't you know I am already asking for help.

We have had a lot of time in the garage with our 78 Beastie and are now getting close to shoving off. I am currently in shopping mode for what will be our "toad". We currently own a 2008 Jeep Wrangler but I am looking into an older VW Bug with tow bar (something easier and cheaper to maintain as well as light weight and fun to drive). I am curious as to what our capabilities will be without giving us too many problems. The plate under the drivers window says G.V.W.R: 16,000 and G.A.W.R Front: 6,000/ Rear: 12,280. I am extremely new to this business so what is the max weight we would be able to tow? I have checked the interwebs and all of the guides are quite confusing. We have a Dodge 440-3 between the seats and I'll admit our brake booster doesn't seem to boost too much. Granted I am all of 90lbs so it takes all I've got to truly stop the Beastie but he will stop, slowly. Any advice is greatly appreciated, many thanks in advance.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #1 – November 13, 2014, 07:54:29 am

Welcome Jheri and J.D. to the group! I am confident somebody will help you with the towing question. While you wait for the answers, why not post a few photos of Beastie? Everybody here LOVES pictures of classic Foretravel products! Good luck with your adventure, and keep us informed of your progress.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #2 – November 13, 2014, 08:00:09 am

We towed a 69 Beetle convertable and never had a problem but it was behind our older diesel coaches....uh...unless you count towing a few blocks with the bug in low gear with the parking brake on.

Best wishes on your adventures and welcome.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #3 – November 13, 2014, 08:12:31 am

Jheri83,
I am assuming that you have a Dodge M Chassis, Those Dodge Chassis had a known brake deficiency. On the 82 Travco I once had the prior owner had installed an additional brake booster which helped some.
Do a search for the FMCA Dodge Chapter, those guys know Dodge running gear forward and backward, also do a search for Travco, again a lot of Dodge knowledge.
Good Luck.
Gary B

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #4 – November 13, 2014, 08:15:25 am

Never towed a bug but did tow a wrangler 335,000 miles plus with no problem. Towed it once behind the born free. I could only really feel it on stopping. Towed fine so that is a fair comparison.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #5 – November 13, 2014, 10:14:37 am

Jheri83

Welcome to posting!Â You are looking for GCVW = Gross Combined Vehicle Weight - Basically the weight of the fully loaded coach GVRW is probably the total weight of the coach and contents - and the axle weights combined (6,000 + 12,280 = 18,280( are in excess of the GVRW number to allow for weight distribution inside the coach, but coach and contents should never exceed the GVWR of 16,000.

In the absence of a GCVW on the data label, you are pretty much on your own, unless there is a hitch rating in the owners manual (assuming you have one!).Â Worse case, an email to James Triana might help at the factory.

That being said, brakes are probably to the best on the coach, but it came with a trailer hitch, the bug is about as light a car as you can tow, aux braking systems on a newer toad might be a nice option, not sure if something could work with your brake system and an air-force of similar aux brake unit.

If I were you, I would make sure my brakes were operating properly (inspect and replace parts as necessary), then tow the lightest thing i could (bug, geo tracker, honda fit) and take it easy.Â See how it stops in a panic stop from highway speeds and then keep that distance in mind as you drive.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #6 – November 13, 2014, 11:43:53 am

Welcome to the Forum.

If you have not found it yet there is a cornucopia of information on Barry Beam's site. There is even some info on '78 coaches. Sadly no towing info.

http://www.beamalarm.com/foretravel-links/foretravel-technical-help.html

Keith

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #7 – November 13, 2014, 11:49:14 am

If you have any concerns about having enough power to tow a VW, I don't think it will be an issue. Our towd is a Suzuki Samuri and last night we towed my wife's '70 VW convt with it. Pulling and Stopping was no problem even with such a low powered Suzuki.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #8 – November 13, 2014, 12:05:00 pm

Since the braking ability is already in question, keep in mind towing anything without auxiliary braking will not make it any better, only worse. I would consider adding some form of auxiliary braking, so the VW brakes help you rather than the VW weight hurting your ability to stop, especially in emergency situations.

If a coach has issues with overheating on grades, that is the other area where towing only makes it worse. You appear to be OK in this area. Going up the hill a bit slower might be your only concern, but it should be of little consequence.

Enjoy, and I hope to see you somewhere along your journey.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #9 – November 13, 2014, 12:14:46 pm

We towed a '71 VW Camper Bus all over Florida for 5 years w/o any problem except the tow bar connection to the Bus. The towbar made for the Bug should eliminate that problem. The only reason we stopped using the VW was the travel in it when we were on the interstates. Everyone in Florida wants to drive 70 mph and we could not get comfortable driving the 50 - 55 mph the VW allowed. Never had a braking problem with our '91 FT.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #10 – November 13, 2014, 12:50:09 pm

BRAKING is the big issue, not engine HP.

The brakes on your gasoline coach are marginal at best. Adding additional weight for them to stop can easily take you from long stopping distances to dangerous ones.

A good toad braking system, set up so that if anything, the toad does slightly more braking than is necessary to just stop the toad would make this more realistic.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #11 – November 13, 2014, 03:27:57 pm

You should check to see if you have typical vacuum assisted power brakes or power brakes off a hydraulic pump. Our old 1978 440 Dodge in a SOB RV had the hydraulic assisted type. It had warped disks but stopped well. Low fluid level can cause rock hard brake pedal that you have to stand on to stop the rig.

Had a VW Rabbit behind my 4107 bus and never notice it was back there.

There is a website that has a fix if you have a problem with the Carter AFB carburetor getting terrible mileage or failing smog.

Pierce

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #12 – November 13, 2014, 04:07:08 pm

Thank you so much everyone! We already feel the family love around here! I'm going to check with the Dodge guys for sure. JD says that we will just go get the VW (that I have always wanted, I am so excited to have a Bug) and being that it is such a light weight car we will test the brakes with it and go from there. If we are careful things should be okay and in the future the brakes will need a revamp. Soon I hope to have some pictures of the Beastie up for everyone to see.

Mucho thanks again for all of the information. I think I hit the jackpot when google found this forum for us.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #13 – November 13, 2014, 05:11:26 pm

Jheri83, welcome to the club! Ok, I have to ask, what does FARR stand for?

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #14 – November 13, 2014, 05:42:52 pm

Welcome to the forum, Jheri and J.D. You will have many questions and this is the place to ask them. Barry's site, mentioned above, is full of information that will help you. Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is the maximum weight of your coach (loaded as you would for a trip) plus the weight of the toad (again, loaded as normal). Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) is the maximum your coach can weigh (loaded as normal, people, fuel, water, food, etc.). For example, our coach has a GVWR of 30,000 pounds and a GCWR of 36,000 pounds. That means that with our coach fully loaded we can tow a 6,000 pound toad.

The axle weight ratings tell you the most weight that can be on that axle. In your case, your front axle weight should not be more than 6,000 pounds and your rear axle weight should not be more than 12,280. Adding those two numbers gives you 18,280, but since that is more than the GVWR of 16,000 pounds, you will have one or both axles more lightly loaded than their maximum capacity.

Hope this helps.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #15 – November 13, 2014, 06:14:58 pm

Jheri,

If you have any questions on the VW, PM me. I worked my way through University of Texas turning wrenches on VW's.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #16 – November 14, 2014, 12:44:02 am

Wolfe10 You are now our go to for VW info, thank you much. FARR is just what we decided to call it because we want it to go far, ha! We added an extra R for distance

Hopefully it will bring us luck.

We bought the Beastie in Poplar Bluff Missouri in May. After a break down in Litchfield we spent a lot of pennies getting the Beastie back in order. We ended up buying a whole new engine, so he went from being called Fritz to FARR with his heart transplant as I like to call it.

We have gone through brakes, master cylinder, booster, water pump, thermostat, shift cable and of course the engine. We got a great deal on a 2 way fridge. This evening JD took out the furnace and gave it a good cleaning and it is now fully functioning. One step at a time we are getting there.
We got really lucky the interior is pretty clean (the carpets need a scrub after the heart transplant), solid floors and walls, no roof leaks (knock on wood, or the nearest wall), all in all pretty clean.

I think the shower could use new "paper" it seems to be coming unstuck but all of the water business seems to be in order accept for our kitchen sink. That will be a whole new adventure. Me I'm just ready to start heading west as the snow seems to be visiting Illinois a bit early this year!

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #17 – November 14, 2014, 10:44:02 am

What part of IL? I am in Chicago Area

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #18 – January 01, 2015, 02:07:50 am

We are in Decatur. We finally got a car, 2001 VW Passat front wheel drive. We are currently shopping for a tow dolly with brakes. Seems we will be leaving within the next few weeks. And one of these days I will get some photos on here.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #19 – January 01, 2015, 08:30:26 am

Quote from: Jheri83 – January 01, 2015, 02:07:50 am

We are currently shopping for a tow dolly with brakes.

You might try looking for a dolly (new or used) that has "surge brakes". The dolly brakes are actuated by a master cylinder built into the tow dolly frame (trailer tongue). This arrangement simplifies hookup because it eliminates one of the electrical connections between coach and dolly. Then all you have to worry about is the lights! See the thread linked below for my adventures in the world of tow dolly lighting:

Tow Lights Wiring Question

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #20 – January 01, 2015, 11:06:13 am

Also, take a look at the Readybrake unit. It is a mechanical brake actuator that plugs into your receiver, has a cable that is attached to your toad brake pedal and hooked onto the lever on the top of the Readybrake. When you start to slow down your coach the toad wants to keep going at the original speed (inertia). The toad pushes/collapses the end of the Readybrake which in turn actuates the lever which pulls the brake cable, actuating your toad brakes and brake lights. The Readybrake has a 20# resistance. As soon as the toad slows down to the same speed as your coach the brake lever returns to the unbraked position.

The Readybrake unit costs about $420 and delivery is swift, installation is quick and easy. (Even I did it!!)

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #21 – January 01, 2015, 11:16:45 am

The OP is talking about buying a tow dolly, so I don't think the ReadyBrake would be applicable.

Re: Help! Newbie towing math...

Reply #22 – January 01, 2015, 11:52:41 am

Sorry, I missed the part about a tow dolly. But, a tow dolly AND a vehicle add more weight to pull and control.
The Readybrake is obviously a whole lot cheaper and readily transferable. A tow dolly works best with vehicles that cannot be towed four wheels down. I think that if tow dollies were all that great there would be a whole lot more of them on the road. Storage when you get to your destination, hooking up & unhooking, maneuvering the dolly around by itself all add to the towing situation/complexity.
The 440-3 Chrysler engine most likely has a Torqueflite transmission and not an Allison so not quite as durable so towing weights/loads become an issue with this era coach.

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