Controversey Over Leveling Coach

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Controversey Over Leveling Coach

December 06, 2014, 06:24:03 pm

I guess this may end up being a rather controversial topic, but I really need some input from ALL of you owners of U280, U295 AND U320 owners. While attending the FOT ladies driving school at Nacogdoches this fall, the classroom instruction was to DUMP all the air prior to leveling the coach with the HWH air leveling system. Despite their best efforts to explain why this was a good idea, I'm too far on the downhill side of senility to grasp it. Our local service rep actually had some good reasons NOT to do it.

How many of YOU dump the air before leveling the coach? Why? Yeah, I know it sets lower, but not sure that means a lot to me.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #1 – December 06, 2014, 06:33:59 pm

We do not dump. We just level. If we're too high in front and not completely squatted below, we will sometimes lower a little then relevel.

Just doesn't make sense to me to dump all the air out then pump it back up - more wear and tear on the aux compressor and a waste of the desiccant capacity (if your coach is so-equipped). Plus if you happened to be in a site where dumping all the air twisted the chassis, you could pop a windshield and put undue stress on things.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #2 – December 06, 2014, 06:46:42 pm

Never dump// Agree with Michelle this is just extra work for the air system. Have known some people who dump to have the coach lower to the ground but I never have dumped my air and I have always been able to level. DAN

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #3 – December 06, 2014, 07:17:06 pm

BTW, same advice was given at GV two years ago

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #4 – December 06, 2014, 07:19:04 pm

We don't dump, just level. It's close to the ground to begin with, really no need get it lower.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #5 – December 06, 2014, 07:25:04 pm

I have an older coach, but my practice is to let the engine idle for 10 minutes or so to cool off the turbo and let the leveling system get used to not moving. During that time I make sure that I'm really where I want to be and plug in the shore power. Then I have the HWH system level the coach. Once it is done I check the bubble level and tweak as necessary. Here at home the left rear is resting on the tires while the right front is at almost full extension. Dumping everything would just mean the RF would have to be pumped up all over again.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #6 – December 06, 2014, 07:55:12 pm

I also lower the coach when parked at home and shut off 12vdc system unless I'm in the coach.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #7 – December 06, 2014, 08:12:53 pm

What seems to be the issue here is ---( HWH-- Active Air) -- Active air equipped coaches , hit the auto level button and you drop the coach to the frame , then make's it level automatically. Mine drops with a thud , front and rear then is level fairly quickly . Making sense of this is not in the cards . I would guess that is what the driving school was thinking about . My 2 cents worth . Brad Metzger

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #8 – December 06, 2014, 08:20:57 pm

David,

There is no need to idle for 10 minutes to "cool the turbo" unless your RV park happens to be at the top of a mountain. A couple minutes of slow driving from an interstate to a park, then within the park to a site will sufficiently cool the turbo.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #9 – December 06, 2014, 08:30:16 pm

We never dump then level, just set the brakes and eather auto level or do it manual, then shut the coach off

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #10 – December 06, 2014, 08:34:30 pm

Quote from: Brad Metzger – December 06, 2014, 08:12:53 pm

What seems to be the issue here is ---( HWH Active Air) -- Active air equipped coaches , hit the auto level button and you drop the coach to the frame . Then make's it level automatically. Mine drops with a thud , front and rear then is level fairly quickly . Making sense of this is not in the cards . I would guess that is what the driving school was thinking about . My 2 cents worth . Brad Metzger

Good point, Brad. I believe they used new coaches at the driving school, so those would have had Active Air.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #11 – December 06, 2014, 08:45:36 pm

We always raise the coach as high as it will go then level. Couple of reasons. I want the gray/black tanks higher than the sewer pvc otherwise it's an uphill battle. If I need to relevel for whatever reason it can be done by letting air out instead of starting the engine to build air. The best reason is it make the coach look bigger. Kinda like puffing your chest out.

see ya
ken

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #12 – December 06, 2014, 08:46:47 pm

I never dump. Doing so would leave my step hitting the ground. After leveling, I might raise or lower the coach to place the step at a more convenient height.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #13 – December 06, 2014, 08:48:19 pm

No need to make an ih45 look bigger.

Quote from: kenhat – December 06, 2014, 08:45:36 pm

We always raise the coach as high as it will go then level. Couple of reasons. I want the gray/black tanks higher than the sewer pvc otherwise it's an uphill battle. If I need to relevel for whatever reason it can be done by letting air out instead of starting the engine to build air. The best reason is it make the coach look bigger. Kinda like puffing your chest out.

see ya
ken7

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #14 – December 06, 2014, 10:25:22 pm

We always level from travel height. This seems to work fine for us.

The advice (to dump before leveling) must only pertain to the newer coaches. The "HWH Air Leveling Systems Textbook" (link below), published 16SEP99, covers leveling system series 500, 600 and 680. Under Leveling Procedures - Automatic Air Leveling (page 26), it says:

"DO NOT dump all the air from the air bags at this time. Allow the system to level the vehicle from travel height."

http://www.hwhcorp.com/ml20635.pdf

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #15 – December 06, 2014, 10:31:04 pm

If the coach is level when I push the button I will dump the air to get it lower.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #16 – December 06, 2014, 10:58:01 pm

I don't know why the unihome and unicoach chassis allows the coach to
lower enough to sit on the tires. I have heard that this practice can crack
tile floors, and if you ever try to move the coach before you reach travel
height, bad things can happen. I level from travel height, and never let the
coach sit on the tires.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #17 – December 07, 2014, 02:58:22 am

Makes the steps closer to the ground

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #18 – December 07, 2014, 06:50:43 am

I have never heard of coach damage from resting on the tires. The coach is designed to do this. Of course, never move the coach before it reaches ride height.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #19 – December 07, 2014, 08:34:48 am

The Active Air drops the coach to (hard) stops ----not metal striking against metal ---- and does not touch the tires . The coach can be moved when all the way down . Don't know if it could be driven that way as I always let it get to ride height first . While all set up and parked level , and time to go , you would have to be fast to move before it gets to ride height as it does it right now . Takes a bit of getting used to , but I've learned to let it do what it's designed to do . It's going to do it anyway so I try to not screw it up with some stupid input on my part . Brad Metzger

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #20 – December 07, 2014, 09:36:53 am

Quote from: Brad Metzger – December 07, 2014, 08:34:48 am

The Active Air drops the coach to (hard) stops and does not touch the tires . The coach can be moved when all the way down . Don't know if it could be driven that way as I always let it get to ride height first . While all set up and parked level , and time to go , you would have to be fast to move before it gets to ride height as it does it right now . Takes a bit of getting used to , but I've learned to let it do what it's designed to do . It's going to do it anyway so I try to not screw it up with some stupid input on my part . Brad Metzger

Brad,
During the summer we were at HWH and there was a Foretravel there like yours being worked on. Interesting he was there for the same problem you are reporting here, the hard stop when leveling. HWH told him that was not proper and reset the leveling to a softer setup. I do recall the owner telling me that HWH said it was not properly set up and needed to be adjusted to a comfortable setting. Hope this helps.
Bob

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #21 – December 07, 2014, 11:42:42 am

Quote from: amos.harrison – December 07, 2014, 06:50:43 am

I have never heard of coach damage from resting on the tires. The coach is designed to do this......................................

Brett,
The potential for damage has been known around Foretravel for at least fifteen years and it has been discussed on the Foreforum for at least the past four years.
I have personally seen three FT's with delaminated plywood flooring (as a result of resting the coaches on tires for extended periods of time) and have heard tell of others.
Clearly, not all coaches will be the same (length, loading, slightly different geometry in different models) and I don't think it is an issue after the 2000 model year. I am of the impression that if the coach is on a level surface, it is less likely to do damage than when the coach is not on a level surface and the suspension is "cocked" as the HWH achieves level with one corner's air bag set fully exhausted. I think that may be at least part of the reason why FT added the 10 psig minimums for 2001"s (I think) and newer coaches.
Larger tires - reasons and caveats? (split from Tire clearance issue)
Dump or Not?
Heed or dismiss, but it is a known issue.
Of course Foretravel is not anxious to say that it is an issue, because repairing and/or replacing sections of the delaminated plywood flooring (in the three coaches that I am familiar with) was both tedious and costly.

Neal

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #22 – December 07, 2014, 07:46:56 pm

I've been somewhat concerned about this, too, as our coach shows some grooves worn in the skin directly above the tires in all locations. I can't see how those grooves could have gotten there without the coach being driven a fair distance while the body was resting on the tires. That may not have happened all at once, of course, but since the coach was 20 years old when we got it it is possible that one of the two previous owners may have repeatedly tried moving the coach while it was resting on tires.

When we get down to Nac I'll have some of the experts down there take a look and see what they suggest. I'm wondering if a piece of 1/4 inch aluminum plate over each tire (securely mounted to the body, of course) might be a good safety device. Another possibility would be some sort of mechanical stop to make sure that coach and tires can't meet.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #23 – December 07, 2014, 08:13:39 pm

I generally level from ride height. Sometimes, if the site is level, I may lower the coach to put the step a bit lower.

We generally don't move the coach until air pressure on both gauges is at least 90 psi. The coach generally moves to full ride height if pressure is at least 85 psi.

When dumping holding tanks, I generally raise the passenger side as high as it will go, lower the driver side, and level the coach front-to-back. Tanks drain well in that attitude. I minimize time in that position to avoid refrigerator (and discomfort) problems.

Re: Controversey Over Leveling Coach

Reply #24 – December 07, 2014, 08:16:24 pm

David, my wheel well had a hole where someone moved the coach while the chassis was touching the tires. It really is no problem other than potential water penetration causing rot of the plywood above so I sealed the penetrations with black urethane caulk, 3M 5200, and 1/32" fiberglass sheet. I don't think it would have been a problem if I didn't do anything but I try to err on the side of caution.

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