Long Term Storage with no AC power

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Long Term Storage with no AC power

December 12, 2014, 08:49:43 pm

I am presently storing my coach in an indoor storage facility that has no AC power to plug the coach into.
The storage facility is 285 miles(one way) from home so it is not that convenient to frequently visit.
I disconnected the negative cable to the Engine battery.

I have the "salesman's switch" turned off but there is still a drain on the house batteries.
The house batteries in this coach are "tucked away" in a compartment in the middle of the coach in the bay
with the joey bed. It is very difficult to get to them.
There is a fuse block on the back wall of that curb side bay similar to the one pictured below.
A red positive cable is attached to either end of the fuse block.
Can I disconnect the red positive cable from one of the terminals to cut off any current drain?
Will it be safe as long as I don't ground the wrench while loosening the nut holding the cable in place?
I would like to add a battery disconnect switch(pictured below) while I have the cable off to make it easier.

Any thoughts or comments? Will it work OK?
Thanks--Jim

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #1 – December 12, 2014, 09:13:00 pm

What exact batteries?

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #2 – December 12, 2014, 09:57:20 pm

You always want to disconnect the negative lead to the batteries first, before touching the positive lead. I suspect that fuse is inline with the positive lead, so should not be touched first. The switch you show should do the job, and can be placed on either the positive or negative lead to the battery, located somewhere reachable.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #3 – December 13, 2014, 12:32:13 am

On our coach, turning off the 'salesman' door switch leaves 12 volt power to refrigerator & smoke/propane detectors. Also on our coach the house & start battery feeds three 90-amp round breakers, so following your coach's wiring diagram you may be able to remove the house battery hot wire from most circuits, but there may be other original or previous owner connections to house battery.

No problem disconnecting fuse wire or better yet just the fuse. Your BlueSea battery switch is a good idea, but you may want to take the time to access the battery bank and install the switch on the negative cable and mount the switch near the batteries, to be sure you are fully disconnecting all loads.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #4 – December 13, 2014, 01:11:05 am

Thank you for the replies.
I guess I will attempt to get to the batteries. Making the job somewhat harder is the PO installed wooden side boards on the
Joey bed making it very difficult to get to the house batteries.
I will have to dismantle the side boards and then get to the batteries and disconnect the negative lead before installing
the switch.
As to the exact batteries that is unknown as I have never seen the house batteries.
The battery placement on this coach is not user friendly

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #5 – December 13, 2014, 01:19:02 am

Quote from: jtm2014 – December 13, 2014, 01:11:05 am

Thank you for the replies.
I guess I will attempt to get to the batteries. Making the job somewhat harder is the PO installed wooden side boards on the
Joey bed making it very difficult to get to the house batteries.
I will have to dismantle the side boards and then get to the batteries and disconnect the negative lead before installing
the switch.
As to the exact batteries that is unknown as I have never seen the house batteries.
The battery placement on this coach is not user friendly

batteries self discharge. Any way to run an solar panel outside somewhere and run the wires to the batteries?

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #6 – December 13, 2014, 01:31:52 am

You can always take the batteries out and take them home with you. You can them put them on a battery maintainer.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #7 – December 13, 2014, 10:21:21 am

Quote

I have never seen the house batteries.

Wood side boards will seal off the battery compartment, yielding less air flow. That compartment gets very warm and warm batteries should be charged at lower voltages, which takes longer. Important to put a wireless thermometer sensor in the compartment so you are aware of what is going on in that area. Use venting screen to close off. Anything that you can do to remove some of the heat will also prolong the life of the batteries.

You are correct and not alone on your observation of that the batteries are very hard to get at.

Besides it is about time you got more intimate with your house batteries as you don't want them to feel unappreciated.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #8 – December 13, 2014, 10:50:29 am

"Besides it is about time you got more intimate with your house batteries as you don't want them to feel unappreciated."

The more I get intimate with this coach--the more my body aches

I thought my boat was bad!!!

The solar panel sounds like a good idea but the owner or the storage facility is very meticulous and would not approve
of any add-on. He will install a 15 amp circuit in the unit when he gets back from FLA in the spring, so I just have
to make do till then.
Thank You all for your help--Jim

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #9 – December 13, 2014, 01:54:13 pm

If fully charged and the negative terminals disconnected, they will go all winter without discharging or freezing even if stored outside. In case a storage has juice, a trickle charger will not cause any battery heating that can be felt. We had a big Cole-Hersee battery switch on all the fire trucks and each time after parking on the apparatus floor, we switched the batteries off. Never had to worry if it was going to start or any battery drain from radios, etc.

Pierce

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #10 – December 15, 2014, 05:53:26 pm

Quote from: sedelange – December 13, 2014, 01:31:52 am

You can always take the batteries out and take them home with you. You can them put them on a battery maintainer.

I had to use an engine hoist to remove and replace the house batteries on my coach even though they are on a slide out tray; very heavy. A weight lifter dude could do it.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #11 – December 15, 2014, 09:14:13 pm

8D-AGM weighs about 167 pounds. Just make sure you bend your knees.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #12 – December 16, 2014, 07:58:15 am

I never was a fan of the 8D, and change them out for two series connected golf cart batteries at first opportunity. It makes changing them much easier, and they tend to last longer. About the same capacity.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #13 – December 16, 2014, 08:45:43 am

Quote from: Kemahjohn – December 16, 2014, 07:58:15 am

I never was a fan of the 8D, and change them out for two series connected golf cart batteries at first opportunity.

The battery location in a 2003 U320 like the OP mentions does not allow wet cell batteries like golf cart batteries, and doesn't lend itself to ready access. Best options are 8D AGM or Gel or (if the budget allows and you replace the inverter/charger) LiFePO4.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #14 – December 16, 2014, 04:18:19 pm

Lifeline has 6 volt AGM batteries that substitute for golf cart batteries. Two of these 6 volt batteries connected to make one 12 volt battery would have less (but not significantly less) amp hours than one 8D, fit the footprint of an 8D, but would be taller, and the two together would weight less than one 8D.

In some new applications, some manufacturers are using 6 volt batteries as substitutes for 8D's.

Larry

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #15 – December 16, 2014, 04:23:18 pm

Yup, 2 golf cart (6VDC) batteries in series are very similar in capacity to an 8D.

And, you mention Lifeline. They make both 6 and 12 and both are the same deep cycle well-made batteries.

Sure easier to lift the 6's!

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #16 – December 16, 2014, 11:40:15 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 16, 2014, 04:23:18 pm

..................2 golf cart (6VDC) batteries in series are very similar in capacity to an 8D.
And, you mention Lifeline. They make both 6 and 12 and both are the same deep cycle well-made batteries......................................

FWIW,
Just make sure that you are comparing "apples and apples." Taking one of the more expensive options for instance (which magnifies the cost advantage), for these two comparable AGM's (Lifelines), in order to get just a $40 savings per 12Vdc set, with two Golf Cart AGM's connected in series, versus the 12Vdc 8D's, you are getting:

35 Amp/Hr less/battery set @ the 20 Hr. Rate or, in other words, 105 Amp/Hr less for 3 battery sets connected in 12Vdc series-parallel, like in most M11 coaches.

25 Lbs less weight in the "guts" that really matter in a battery (battery internals weight, not in the battery case but in the amp/hr producing stuff).

A whopping 900 less CCA/set @ 68°F and 600 less CCA/set @ 0°F (That is 2700 CCA's less for 3 battery sets connected in 12Vdc series-parallel @ 68°F)

The Reserve Capacity, between the two, does compare favorably.

Using Golf Cart Batteries also means three more jumpers (six more battery posts/connections/twelve more surfaces) to maintain and keep in good condition) and the initial cost to either fabricate or purchase the three jumpers.

Several years into use, if you have one of six or one of three go bad, one is still faced with the partial versus complete replacement decision. Probabilities analysis says that one in six is more likely to occur than one in three, just from a pure probabilities standpoint. Common sense says so as well. So the replacement decision is likely to occur sooner and the lifetime cost for the total set ($/year/week/day of use) is likely to be even more skewed toward the 8D's.

I think that at $40 more per 12Vdc set, it would make more sense to me to buy the more robust 8D's and have the vendor wrestle them into place for me (if that were a problem).
Neal

	AGM Golf Cart Battery = $303.48	AGM 8D = $645
Length	10.28	20.76
Width	7.06	10.89
Height	10.24	8.64
Terminal Height		9.76
Weight	66	156
Shipping Weight (lb.)	70	166
DC Output Voltage	6 V	12 V
Bulk Charge Voltage	7.10 - 7.30 V	14.20 - 14.60 V
Absorbtion Charge Voltages	7.10 - 7.30 V	14.20 - 14.60 V
Float Voltage	6.55 - 6.70 V	13.10 - 13.40 V
Enclosure	ABS Plastic	ABS Plastic
Group Size	GC2 (Golf Cart)	8D
Regulatory Approval	DOT, ICAA, IATA, IMDA	DOT, ICAA, IATA, IMDA
C.C.A.	1095 @ 68° / 925 @ 32° / 750 @ 0°	1975 @ 68° / 1675 @ 32° / 1350 @ 0°
Amp/Hr	220 @ 20HR Rate	255 @ 20HR Rate
Reserve Capacity	492 min @ 25 A / 856 min @ 15 A / 1692 min @ 8 A	550 min @ 25 A / 825 min @ 15 A / 1670 min @ 8 A
Model:	GPL-4CT	GPL-8DA
Manufacturer:	Lifeline	Lifeline
Manufacturer Part #:	GPL-4CT	GPL-8DA
Made In:	USA	USA

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #17 – December 17, 2014, 09:42:55 am

I replaced my starting batteries this week. I bought 3 Sears Platinum group 31's. The Sears Platinum are actually Odyssey batteries with a whopping 1150 CCA and a 3 year free replacement warranty.

The best price I could find on Odysseys was $369. Sears gave me commercial pricing since I was buying three batteries. The price was $249 each.

1150 CCA, warranty, and price is hard to beat.

BTW, I finally could get to the batteries after doing the muffler-to-resonator conversion. Thanks Michelle/Steve and Barry for all the helpful posts on doing the conversion on a 2003 320!!!

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #18 – December 18, 2014, 09:21:23 pm

Well I decided to go into the "bowels" of the coach and find the house batteries.
It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, just more of a nuisance in getting in and out of the bay to get the proper
tools. I was able to dis-connect the negative terminal and should eliminate any parasitic drain.
The good news was that the batteries must have been replaced by FOT when they had it for sale. Shipping date of Jul 2014.

There are 3 batteries -pictured below- but i do not recognize the brand.
Anyone familiar with these? What would be a comparable battery in the Optima Line?
Thanks--Jim

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #19 – December 18, 2014, 09:31:40 pm

Quote from: jtm2014 – December 18, 2014, 09:21:23 pm

There are 3 batteries -pictured below- but i do not recognize the brand.

Looks like it says "Exide" gel with a 196 AH rating.

The OEM MK/Deka (East Penn) 8D Dominator gels are something like a 225 AH rating. Deka 8D Intimidator AGM equivalent are 245 AH rating.

At some point make sure your Prosine inverter is set correctly for 3 196 AH batteries - it may require a slightly different setting than the original for optimal charging.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #20 – December 18, 2014, 10:02:23 pm

OK Thanks Michelle.
I guess the batteries were a cheaper alternative to the OEM MK/Deka.
Hope to get a few years from them before needing replacement.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #21 – December 18, 2014, 11:11:01 pm

Those are high quality gel batteries. Make sure your inverter is set for proper charging voltage-max 14.1. They could last you ten years if you treat them right.

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #22 – December 18, 2014, 11:54:09 pm

Quote from: amos.harrison – December 18, 2014, 11:11:01 pm

Those are high quality gel batteries. Make sure your inverter is set for proper charging voltage-max 14.1. They could last you ten years if you treat them right.

I could not find the charging requirements for the battery in the picture above.

But the charging voltage - max for the Deka 8G8D Dominator Gell Battery is 14.6 volts at 77 degrees F.

Larry

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #23 – December 19, 2014, 12:47:52 am

Quote from: LTG – December 18, 2014, 11:54:09 pm

I could not find the charging requirements for the battery in the picture above.

But the charging voltage - max for the Deka 8G8D Dominator Gell Battery is 14.6 volts at 77 degrees F.

Larry

My guru buddy says 14.10-14.15?

Re: Long Term Storage with no AC power

Reply #24 – December 19, 2014, 01:38:13 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – December 19, 2014, 12:47:52 am

My guru buddy says 14.10-14.15?

Refer to the East Penn Manufacturing Deka Dominator brochure "E.P.M. Form No. 0909 Rev. 4/13."

Larry

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