What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

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What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

December 31, 2014, 03:26:38 pm

Words escape me.

Photos of primary filter, PO added a Baldwin BF979. I have three filters. Fear of bio diesel was his reason.
This is exactly as I removed the filter nothing was moved.

Last photo is fuel taken from a BF1223 filter with water separator. Fuel looks good, yes? Can't removed filter yet. Am I gonna find more of this?

These two filters are less than a foot apart.

What is this stuff?
Ed

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #1 – December 31, 2014, 03:34:33 pm

Guessing it's algae. Brett W. should chime in on this one.

How long was fuel and/or coach sitting, what part of the country, and do you use a biocide?

Your previous post on the transmission plug mentioned the stumbing/bucking problem immediately after a fill up. Big, high-turnover station or small, low turnover one?

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #2 – December 31, 2014, 04:02:28 pm

Looks like dirt with rocks, possible rust, decomposed hose material and some other stuff to me. Algae is black and generally soft sticky stuff. I have gotten a load a couple of times that looked just like this in a diesel van and a car. Was any of it soft and squishy? With no federal or state inspectors, you run into this now and again. Does not matter that much what volume the station does, if snake eyes comes up, it's your time. A lot of stations used to have a big external filter on the diesel hose where it came out of the pump. Check for water at the bottom of your primary filter when you cut it open.

I would lean the rig over to the fill side and look down in the tank to see what is on the bottom. May need a small mirror and a Cree bulb flashlight or equal. Can be difficult with a full tank. May take a bit to get it out. I have had to use a suction pump and a hose on the bottom of the tank. I remember Volvo dealerships that had to replace fuel tanks. Olds diesels did not have a tank drain on the bottom so always had to replace the tank. Make sure to replace your generator filter at the same time.

Would make sure I had a good supply of main engine primary, secondary and also generator filters on hand.

Pierce

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #3 – December 31, 2014, 04:36:20 pm

I agree with Pierce-- does not look like algae. Other than that, can't tell. Does not appear to be asphaltine, another common issue.

Best advice: to prevent failure of the (expensive) fuel injection system, continue to change filters so fuel flow is maintained. If it persists, fined a "fuel polisher", a common service around marine areas.

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #4 – December 31, 2014, 04:41:34 pm

AND I'm having trouble posting.... Last two posts went into cyberspace.

Lets try this again.

I've added 300 plus gallons since I bought the coach in August. I added biocide to the last fill prior to this one that started the problems. PO used biocide also.

It was a no name station. I was shopping price. I actually had taken on 20 or so gallons so I could make a Flying J. I saw the price and I filled up (100 gals) drove about 100 miles and stopped for the night. Nothing noticeable until I started the next day. Check engine light flickered, slight grades made the coach buck, got a 94 error code which translated to a fuel issue. I knew I had bad fuel, just nothing like this was expected.

Ed

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #5 – December 31, 2014, 04:44:40 pm

It is soft and squishy but some of it looks like glass. Any thoughts on this?

ed

Edit
The stuff I described as glass actually looks like a thin film of oil (brown color) that dried hard on something and now has flaked off. The rest is black squishy stuff.

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #6 – December 31, 2014, 05:18:40 pm

My best guess from my (still current) boating days is that you have had some water in the fuel / tank for some time and if the PO used biocides, it was probably a long time ago or was not effective. You put the bug / algae killer in and then hit the road causing fuel to slosh. The biocide did it's job and killed all the gunk hanging on the tank walls. After it died, the next road sloshing caused it to release from the tank walls and fall to the bottom of the tank where it was picked up and deposited on the top of your filters reducing flow. I got a load of water with my fuel down in Grenada, then docked the boat for two months. When I came back I had the exact stuff you have in my filters. I really hate paying $6.00 a gallon for water! I have a fuel polisher built into the fuel system on the boat with a couple of 900 gallon an hour raycor filters so it was an easy fix for me--- just a bunch of filters.
I use a cummins fleet guard product called asphalt one dispersant--- the stuff is great --- in both my boat and bus. Hope this helps.

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #7 – December 31, 2014, 05:21:18 pm

Sorry, the IPad changed the name, it is fleet guard asphaltine dispersant

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #8 – December 31, 2014, 06:20:42 pm

In California, stations have to have double walled tanks and can sample vapors from the void between the two walls. Not all states do this as replacing the tanks is very expensive. With single walled tanks, they may rust out in some areas and if the ground water is high enough, water and dirt may get into the bottom of the tank. I had one so bad that there were even pebbles in the bottom of my van's tank.

Buying from above ground tanks is also a bit dicey as condensation from daily temperature change may allow more water to collect in the tanks compared to stable underground temperatures.

I have always checked the lowest point in the fuel system in aircraft immediately after fueling. With the fuel tank forward in our Foretravels you can't do that but it's good to have a clear bottom on the primary filter and check it with the engine running after fueling. Some primary filters have probes that trigger an alarm if water collects. Most but not all of the time when you find algae, there will be a bit of water in the tank. Sometimes a lot.

If you do go through several filters before the fuel is clean, wait to run the diesel generator. This way, you will only have to replace the generator filter once.

Pierce

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #9 – December 31, 2014, 09:46:38 pm

I had something similar after we bought our coach. I think it was algae. It cleared up after some miles and filter changes.

Mark

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #10 – January 01, 2015, 08:31:48 am

When I bought my coach it had been setting for several years in Florida. I filled it up & drove it to Maryland with no problems but the filter restriction indicator on the Racor fuel filter was in the red by the time I got home. I spent a few months fixing and replacing. Treated the tank with a biocide and water dispersant. First long trip was to Mobil, AL. It took 4 sets of filters to get there. I came back on 2 but was in the red when we got home. Now I only have to change them once a year during regular maintenance and the indicator is never in the red.

Bottom line is if your coach has been setting without the proper treatments, it will take some time & miles to fix it.

TOM

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #11 – January 01, 2015, 01:04:58 pm

Well I hope this means nothing got into the injectors or engine. Photo is of the next filter (one more to go). There seems to be none of the crud I found in the first filter. I filled a jug with fuel and it looks clear.

Can I use this fuel (since it looks clear) to prime my new filter.

Thanks for all the help

Ed

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #12 – January 01, 2015, 01:17:28 pm

Yes, the clean fuel is fine to prime. I'd cut open that filter and open up the media. Check to see if you can see your contaminant being trapped internally.

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #13 – January 01, 2015, 01:21:09 pm

It looks like old bio contamination. You have several alternatives. Best is to drain tank and then have it cleaned. They will use a pressure washer with special tips. That is what we did with bad tanks. Second is to lean the coach to one side after driving it to mix up the crud. Let it settle for a couple of days then siphon or pump from the very bottom of the low side until you see clean fuel. Third is to keep running it until filters stay clean. This I would not do. Put biocide in at every fill in correct proportions. Keep water out. That is what causes the problem. Store with full tank in humid or climates that have large temperature swings. Buy several filters and keep in coach so you are not stranded.

Yes you could use the old fuel if it's perfectly clean I suppose. I would not. Use new clean fuel only.

Keith

These are the kind of tips we used:

Tank cleaning nozzles - General Industry

A good biocide (there are others that work):

Schaeffer Oil | Fuel Shock Fuel System Cleaner

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #14 – January 01, 2015, 01:35:09 pm

Just because the fuel looks clean, I would be very careful using it to prime the secondary fuel filter. No way for a human eye to see sub 10 micron particles, but those can harm the injection system.

Verify with your Cummins owners manual, but suspect that the fuel system will self prime when the key is turned to the first position (electric fuel pump).

If you must pre-fill the secondary fuel filter, fill the small outer holes (inlets), not the center large hole (outlet).

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #15 – January 01, 2015, 05:42:43 pm

Well the three filters have been changed and I took a short 30 mile trip. She ran great, not a single hiccup. Thanks for all the help.

I intend to inspect the primary filter tomorrow and if I see anything, I'll be changing them again. I'm also taking the forums advice and will look for a fuel polisher.

What if I don't find anything in the filter, how often should I check thereafter?

Ed

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #16 – January 01, 2015, 07:37:09 pm

With a clear plastic sight "glass" on the bottom of the primary filter (first filter the fuel encounters after leaving the tank), you can quickly see any water or other crud on the bottom. Take a glance at it when you check your oil and after fueling.

With the rig tilted toward the fuel filler side, any water will flow to the low side pretty quickly. A bright light and a mirror will let you look at the bottom as well as the sides. You may not be able to see past any baffle but all the aluminum visible should be shiny with no sign of anything sticking to the walls. If anything is visible on the sides, you will have to have it cleaned. Anything on the bottom can usually be easily sucked out.

Another inexpensive inspection method is to use a USB borescope hooked up to a laptop. Here are a few to choose from: Amazon.com: Borescopes - Inspection & Analysis: Industrial & Scientific View live or you can take a screen shot as well as recording a video.

I use one of these connected to my Mac laptop. Should work fine on a PC also. They have their own USB powered light.

Over 90 percent of diesel engine problems are fuel related and easy to remedy. Good to be ready for them so you can get it going in a few minutes rather than being stuck for days.

Pierce

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Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #17 – January 05, 2015, 03:21:28 pm

No question about it, if you get into a situation like this (& I hope it never happens), & if you are stuck without a spare filter, knock the debris out of the filter and screw it back in place, rather than being stuck. It doesn't take much (loose) material to plug a filter and rarely will you plug a filter with fine material.

Dragline out in the sticks after it had been out of use for the winter 101. pc

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #18 – January 05, 2015, 03:29:23 pm

Agree, in an emergency you can clean a filter-- the PRIMARY fuel filter.

BUT (very large BUT) I would never do this with the secondary fuel filter (the final fuel filter). Even a small tear in the filter media could let through particles large enough to destroy your fuel injection system. Better to sit on the side of the road until a replacement can be found if you have neglected to carry extra filters.

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #19 – January 05, 2015, 10:52:06 pm

Take something like the wooden handle on a hammer and rap on the side of the filter while it's still installed. Engine has to be stopped. Wait a while before driving as some of the crud will settle to the bottom. Has gotten me home several times in diesel cars.

As Brett says, don't fool with cleaning the secondary filter.

Pierce

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #20 – January 06, 2015, 10:17:41 am

It looks to me that the material is a combination of rust, sludge and varnish. I'm guessing that you got some bad fuel from an old steel tank at that small station. I don't know if diesel will produce the "glass looking" varnish but the fuel tank may have been used for gasoline at some point in the past.

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #21 – January 06, 2015, 11:51:56 am

Gonna take her for another drive. Bringing a spare filter. Wish me luck.

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #22 – January 06, 2015, 03:59:53 pm

Like Pierce says--wooden hammer-- My main toolbox consists of three different size hammers.

Suggest you also "thump" the fuel tank walls where acces
sible with the wooden hammer before doing any fuel polishing or long trips. Knock down/loose any crud from the tank walls if the problem is being caused by the coach being a "garage queen".

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #23 – January 08, 2015, 03:02:27 pm

Quote from: Lance Camper – January 06, 2015, 11:51:56 am

Gonna take her for another drive. Bringing a spare filter. Wish me luck.

I took the primary filter off after my drive. Except for this stuff caught on top there was nothing else. I picked it out with a pair of tweezers and put the filter back. I guess I'll be checking the filters after every ride for a while.

Ed

Re: What is this stuff ?? !! (in my fuel filters)

Reply #24 – January 08, 2015, 04:03:29 pm

Looks like it might be algae. Is it soft and gummy? Photo is slightly out of focus. Fungicide will kill it but getting it all out takes a while. You probably have collected most but will take a while to get it all. Doubt if any is getting to the secondary filter now so keep checking the primary.

Pierce

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