Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #25 – January 21, 2015, 11:00:58 pm Cat is not alone with history of softer blocks, John Deere also has history. Of course my Cat experience was with the earlier 30+ yr ago series which mostly were great engines with the low end 3200 series being the big issue. John Deere had a run of soft blocks too. Crazy stuff, Cummins has had issues with the smaller V style engines, while the inline does very well. DDC seems to be alone with great history with no bad 2 stroke iron blocks, some of the aluminum blocks had a hard life.I worked Cat for a couple years, more than 30 yrs ago, enjoyed their schools, perks & was great as a time card puncher, but I would never purchase a Cat anything beyond tools. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #26 – May 15, 2015, 10:40:50 am Good Morning All, I hate to beat a dog soooooo hard, but I took the blue angle to Holt CAT Truck Service in Longview, TX yesterday asking what is causing my excessive oil consumption? By the way the oil consumption is now at 1 Qt. per 100-150 miles. They inspected everything they could. They worked for 3 hours. They checked for oil leaks, bad turbo, clean fuel at the filter, both air tanks for oil in tank, blow-by was found to be OK, removed value cover and re-torqued intake bolts. They said they could not find the cause and the only way they could do more would be to take it apart. I am happy with there service, but what do I do now?? Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #27 – May 15, 2015, 11:05:10 am Go to a forum that specializes in CATs. Brett will be able to suggest several. Seems unusual for that much consumption. Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #28 – May 15, 2015, 12:24:27 pm This reminds me of my angst at trying to find the leak in my pool. The guy who I selected to do the repair said "start by not filling it back up". See if it stabilizes before the bottom of the 'ADD' section. You might just need to recalibrate your dipstick. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #29 – May 15, 2015, 01:10:25 pm Quote from: Pierce & Gaylie Stewart – May 15, 2015, 11:05:10 amGo to a forum that specializes in CATs. Brett will be able to suggest several. Seems unusual for that much consumption. PierceSorry, wish I could offer something further. My only suggestion is to VERIFY that the engine oil dipstick is CALIBRATED.I know the dipstick on our 1993 U240 (same engine) was NOT. Filling to the original full mark caused the crankcase to be overfilled. And it "puked" out the crankcase breather until the "real" full level was reached. If you continued to fill to the overfill mark, it would certainly appear to be using oil.While I guess any engine family can become an oil consumer, that series of Cat engines was never known for oil consumption. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #30 – May 15, 2015, 01:37:40 pm I know this is grasping at straws but has the air compressor been checked to see if it has a broken ring. If so it could be pumping oil out backwards when the compressor is unloaded into the air plenum going to the engine, if that is where the compressor is getting filtered air from. It seems like if a ring was broken you would be getting excessive oil out the dryer purge and in the wet tank. Does yours have the York air compressor? Pamela & Mike Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #31 – May 15, 2015, 03:27:19 pm It could also be a broken oil ring in the engine--- a quart per 100 miles is extreme. How many miles does the engine have? Do you have excessive smoke? What color smoke?I have seen a Cummins 5.9 350 hp marine engine with this kind of oil consumption due to cylinder glazing. The cause was discovered by using a bore scope camera through the injector mounting bore without dismantling the engine. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #32 – May 15, 2015, 07:44:41 pm Brett's suggestion seems simple enough but if you had another shop do the oil change, they may keep overfilling during changes. When changing oil, find the correct amount of oil for your engine including the amount for the filter. Fill with amount CAT recommends, start engine, turn off and check against the full mark stamped on the dip stick after a few minutes.Check crankcase internal pressure with a manometer. Expect somewhere around 7 to 11 Hg but may be different for your engine.Any oil ever on the ground?What does shop say about valve seals? Any blue smoke on downgrades?How fast does it start? Smoke? Any changes in engine behavior as the problem occurred? Overheating? Accidentally exceeding engine rpm redline on downgrades? Check with CAT to see if they recommend going to a straight viscosity SAE 40 in extreme cases.You probably don't have a EGT gauge/probe but checking will catch high temps from a bad turbo seal.Read other forums for others with same problem and solutions they found.Overhaul will be very expensive so would do a lot of research before going that route.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #33 – May 15, 2015, 07:47:54 pm Could be a simple case of being "Dusted", maybe he is using the K&N air strainer, they sure will Dust your baby, sure would not be the first. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #34 – May 15, 2015, 07:58:29 pm Dave make a good point I had totally forgotten. Using K&N filters is like slowly emptying a can of Ajax into your engine's air intake. Diesel pushers are much more susceptible than front engined coaches. Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #35 – May 17, 2015, 09:25:04 am Good Morning All, Thanks for all the comments and ideas. First if the oil was getting out of the engine in someway other than the exhaust, it would leave a very black oily trail. There is no leaking/spotting under the motor, there is no stuff/trace on the rear of motorhome, also none on the tow car, there is no oil in either air tank. This was confermed by Holt CAT. Second the other way out is thru the exhaust pipe, the engine does not smoke black or blue any time, the turbo intercooler is clean and piping, the exhaust manifold gasket area shows signs of slight value guide wear(thin film of oil around gasket ), cracked/broken rings would show up as excessive blow-by and my blow-by is OK/normal, bad injectors will show up as black fuel(oil in fuel) at the filter, my fuel at the filter is clear and clean, the value area of motor is also part of the intake manifold and has a gasket that could be leaking, that was re-torqued and found to be OK. This was confermed by Holt CAT. The dip stick is not the problem, everytime I change my oil(6000 miles) and I always do the work, I fill with 19 qts, start and this becomes my add mark(it is the word add) then add the final 2 qts to make total of 21 qts. This is the full mark and on my stick it is the add mark line. Pierce: The engine runs good, start easy, gets 10 MPG at 60MPH towing, I have had a heating problem that was addressed by replacing the hydraulic fans, sun controller, fan motors. Still wants to heat up going up hills and cools going down. Temps go up from 181 as outside temp rises. I do run Delo 400 LE 15w-40w, the stuff you find in all the truck stops. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #36 – May 17, 2015, 09:56:37 am A broken / worn oil ring will usually not cause excessive blow by---- worn or broken compression rings will. An history of engine heating problems could point toward the oil rings loosing temper due to high heat and not doing a proper job of "scraping" excess oil off the cylinder wall on piston down stroke. This oil can make it's way into the combustion chamber past the compression rings which are designed not to scrape oil on the piston down stroke (that is how they are lubricated). Any diesel is designed to burn oil (since that is what diesel fuel is, light oil) and will very effectively burn lube oil, so unless there is a huge amount of oil getting into the combustion chamber the engine simply burns it like fuel and may not create huge amounts of smoke that you would notice.Has your fuel mileage gone up as your oil consumption has? It would be very slight, but might help you trouble this hairy problem. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #37 – May 17, 2015, 11:01:58 am My customer had two separate cylinder repairs done. In frame overbore. 80k and 100k miles. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #38 – May 17, 2015, 11:17:46 am Pat,As Dave M brought up, what kind of air filter do you have installed? Didn't see in your above reply. Have you checked all the intake air connections to make sure no dirt is entering the engine? Has it been replaced? Restricted air filter can cause high EGT especially at high altitude. On the other hand, an intake leak allowing or incorrect filter allowing dust/dirt in can dust the engine as Dave points out.Heating. How bad was the heating that you replaced the fan and motors? Did it ever boil over to the point you had to add coolant? Do you still heat in mild temperatures on hills? How much of a hill does it take to bring the temp off the thermostat in 70-80F ambient? Do you ever come off the thermostat on level ground? What was the maximum temp you reached before you replaced the fans/motors? Did replacing help any?Worn valve guide seals may use oil without telltale smoke out the back. Oil is just burned with the diesel. They can harden with age and lose their effectiveness. I have replaced on a couple of engines without removing the cylinder head but is dependent on ease of valve spring removal. Have you had a radiator shop check for products of combustion in the coolant tank?I had a Mercedes van that used LOTS of oil without any outward sign. Started fine, no smoke, good mileage. Tried lots of remedies to no avail. When I pulled the engine, I could not see anything amiss with rings etc. New liners and pistons cured it. As above post notes, rings that have lost their temper or ring land wear may allow rings to no longer seal properly.Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #39 – May 17, 2015, 04:47:24 pm The engine air filter is standard FOT. I have changed and cleaned filter many times.The heating problems was it running above what I had been use to in the past. The fans still run about 600-700 RPM slow. The fan motors, pump and sun controller replacement had no effect on fan speed. It has never boiled over, but once it did reach 240-250 when high temp light and buzzer came on. I stopped and it cooled down soon. Now at 85 ambient running 60MPH to/from Longview,TX from Lufkin,TX temp will run about 185-190. Any up hill, temp will rise and level/down will cool. This is towing too. All hydraulic system part replacement was done at the end of last summer. I don't have any real summer driving conditions/temps yet. I am going from Lufkin,Tx to Las Vegas,NV in Aug 22, 2015. I bet that will test it a little. I have made the trip several times in the past.The engine coolant has been changed/flushed and was clear and clean. I change the filter yearly myself.I wonder; if looking thru a removed injector hole with a video cam is worth($$$) trying??lost and puzzled, this does not add up!!! Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #40 – May 17, 2015, 07:21:05 pm It all adds up IF you have glazed cylinder walls, it would act exactly as you describe, the fix is cheap, safe and fairly quick.We have the issue with both diesel and gasoline engines that are not run very hard. Had a 7.3 Navistar that burnt 1 qt per 400-500 miles until I fixed it, then ran it till 414,000 miles, sold it, new owner is still laughing at me. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #41 – May 18, 2015, 12:46:41 am Know a few red neck mechanics who have used those methods, some with some success and some with poor luck.The method that works for the rest of us is to use the break in oil, the reason for break in oil is to seat the rings ONLY.Know we do not hear much about the old break in oil like we used to, but it still works, have used it on many engines, even a 6V-92 that just would not quit using oil.It is not a big mystrey, break in oil is simply Non Detergent oil, so change oil to a straight weight SAE30 and run until it stops burning oil. Might take 1,000 miles or maybe 5,000 miles, but it will seat the rings, THEN go back to your good oil.I do not expect all the experts to understand what I just printed, but it is very true, have helped some on this forum already solve their mystrey oil loss. Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #42 – May 18, 2015, 12:56:55 am Should have mentioned that Cat has had issues with oil usage, have seen some 3208 engines that were built with two rings, meaning one compression and one oil control ring, they had a big problem wet stacking / slobbering, you could load bank them for 2 hours at 100% load, they would clean up and run great for about five hours, then with little load they were back to the same mess. Cat was a great place to work, been to Peoria, IL. many times for schooling, but still would not own one. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #43 – May 18, 2015, 10:16:06 am Quote from: Dave M – May 18, 2015, 12:56:55 amShould have mentioned that Cat has had issues with oil usage, have seen some 3208 engines that were built with two rings, meaning one compression and one oil control ring, they had a big problem wet stacking / slobbering, you could load bank them for 2 hours at 100% load, they would clean up and run great for about five hours, then with little load they were back to the same mess. Cat was a great place to work, been to Peoria, IL. many times for schooling, but still would not own one.Ya, the 3208 was a completely different engine, particularly the early two ring version of the 3208.Pat,One thing you said that really concerns me is that you "cleaned the air filter many times".It is very easy to damage the paper element / air filter, particularly if you bang it to remove dirt. And, the more times it is removed, the more the chance that the seals at the filter ends will be damaged or misaligned. A broken pleat or seal will surely "dust" and engine. Another symptom of this is that the air filter minder will always read "no restriction", as the open pleat or seal creates a direct path for air (and, of course dirt) to reach the engine. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #44 – May 18, 2015, 12:35:54 pm Find a good tech first with a bore scope and an easy to get to cylinder. The non-detergent oil idea will be great if you find a glazed cylinder wall. FWIW, I've never seen just a single glazed cylinder. If you get this far without finding the problem, start smoking (at the back of the motor 1st)cylinders, looking for a worn exhaust valve guide. A decent shop should be able to diagnose your issue. Edit: Cat did have a couple of issues with this and the 3126 series. The blocks were made in France and a number of them did have cylinder issues due to the incorrect casting issues (metallurgy.) If excessive wear is indicated at the top of the cylinder, the only fix will be an in-frame to replace the liners and ring-set. Also, TRW was the vendor for valves and there were reports of issues. pc Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #45 – May 18, 2015, 02:23:07 pm No liners in the 3116. You have to install salvage sleeves if there is enough room above the block to mount the boring bar. CAT does not make oversized pistons. Aftermarket may be available at .020 but wear may be more than that. Machine shop will need a torque plate to bolt down before boring for the sleeves or it will use oil. Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #46 – May 18, 2015, 02:58:29 pm Buying oversized piston's, I said nothing about buying oversized pistons.. We can bench race this and guess what's wrong forever. Good luck. pc Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #47 – May 18, 2015, 04:29:28 pm Quote from: pocketchange – May 18, 2015, 02:58:29 pmBuying oversized piston's, I said nothing about buying oversized pistons.. Just a general comment toward the subject engine and possibilities. Now, it you want my opinion Pierce Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #48 – May 18, 2015, 04:50:15 pm I agree with Brett Wolfe ,on one motocade, 3 engines "got dusted". Owner failed air cleaner maintaince. Required in frame overhauls. Quote Selected
Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption Reply #49 – May 18, 2015, 08:38:13 pm Oh NO, all this sounds like a lot of money. How do you get the injector out after the value cover is off?Using a scope to look in the cylinder, what does a glazed cylinder look like? How much blow-by does a dusted engine have? Quote Selected
Topic: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption