Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

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Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

January 16, 2015, 03:58:07 pm

I have a 95 U240 Cat 3116 with 130K miles. I have noticed increased oil consumption lately. I have no leaks period. So I checked it on the last trip. Running on I-10 at 60-68MPH towing, it used 3 almost 4 qts. in 510 miles. On the check before that one I think it used 4 qts in 687 miles. I have checked the blow by pipe to see if air is coming out of the engine, at 700 rpm very little, at 1350(high idle) very little/almost none. This test was on a cool engine running for about 10 minutes. I have also removed the air inlet to the turbo and I pushed and pulled on the impeller nut, there is some play up and down, less side to side play, there is no play in and out. I have no exhaust smoke any time of any color. Where is the oil going? how do find the problem? Is the turbo pumping the oil somewhere? Can the turbo be repaired or must it be replaced? where do you get a turbo??

Thanks
Pat,

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #1 – January 16, 2015, 04:08:37 pm

Pat,

Couple of things:

To check for a bad seal in the turbo, pull off the boot from turbo to crossover pipe to CAC and check for oil there. Be gentle with boot.

Have you calibrated your engine oil dipstick? I also though I had an oil consumption issue on a 3116. After calibrating the engine oil dipstick, I found the full mark was 2+ quarts high. I was OVERfilling, the engine was puking it out and I would again overfill.

After calibration, no oil consumption issues again.

You can verify your correct oil capacity by calling the Caterpillar RV Hotline at 877 777-3126 with your engine serial number. Likely to be 21 quarts including oil filter.

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #2 – January 16, 2015, 04:22:51 pm

Hi Wolfe10,
I always fill the engine at oil change time with 19 qts. so as to find the add mark., then add 2 more qts.
My full mark is the add mark on the dip stick.

I will try to look at the pipe you mention.

Thanks
Pat,

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #3 – January 16, 2015, 05:48:38 pm

I'd suggest you run a few qts. low to see if it reduces/slows using oil "if" you cannot find issues with the turbocharger.

Have you had this issue for a while or is it something new? pc

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #4 – January 16, 2015, 06:29:21 pm

Has the engine ever been overheated? If so, I would look at valve seals.
Diesel engines can burn large quantities of lube oil without smoking. Like Brett said, check turbo for seal leak--- common cause of oil consumption on all diesels, regardless of brand.

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #5 – January 16, 2015, 07:31:49 pm

I have owned the MH for 8 yrs now. I have put 50K miles on it. I have always put some oil in it. I do think it has increased from about 2 qts per tank or 700-900 miles to now about 6-8 qts per tank or 700-900 miles. I change the oil at 6000 miles. I have not really paid a lot of attention to the oil consumption until I noticed I was really low a few times. I have got it hot enough for the high temp alert to sound once, but it cooled down at idle real quick. I have ran it at 203-205 deg. for hours in hot weather. I would say that I have noticed the increase for about the last 10k miles.

Pat,

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #6 – January 17, 2015, 06:27:01 pm

Today I removed the turbo output piping both at the turbo and at the inter-cooler. I found the inter-cooler to be clean and dry( no oil). I also found the output at the turbo to be clean and dry(no oil). The exhaust side of the turbo is so (20+yrs) rusty that I could not easily remove the exhaust pipe to inspect it. Still no smoke of any type today when starting or high idle. No/very little blow by at crank case ventilation pipe. No oily substances in blow by pipe. Sum up and down movement in turbo shaft, no in and out slack. I will double check for leaks, but I know there are none. any ideas or help appreciated

Pat,

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #7 – January 17, 2015, 06:52:10 pm

Don't know that I have any "secret formula", but the basics are:

Per Caterpillar, do not add oil until the oil level is at the (calibrated) add mark.

Assume you are using a 15-40 oil speced for diesels.

Assume the engine is not running how-- hot engine=thinner oil.

Frankly, were it mine, it would have to get a LOT worse before I would tear into the engine itself, particularly if it is running well and not suffering any big drop in MPG.

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #8 – January 17, 2015, 09:44:33 pm

Turbo chargers will coverup lots of problems fwiw.

You could smoke (test) each cylinder to verify their condition but if you aren't in a position to correct the issue,
I'm for leaving things alone and enjoy the ride until it gets to the point of needing repair
(which could be a long time into the future.) pc

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #9 – January 17, 2015, 09:57:48 pm

I would search other CAT forums for like symptoms. A turbo seal going bad will cause elevated EGT. Once they go really bad, they melt pistons. Probably not your case but if the crankcase is filled to the correct level and it still is using oil, I would find the reason right away.

Pierce

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #10 – January 17, 2015, 10:09:20 pm

A few thoughts;
Ever used either to start it ? Is it hard starting ? using either can cause the rings to become very weak,

If after going down a good hill, when you add power at bottom of hill, do you have a puff of blue smoke from exhaust, that would indicate valve seals

If glazed cylinder walls, it will not leak, nor show blue haze from exhaust, but sure can burn a lot of oil.

Many possibilities, with the mileage, rings could be worn out or just leaking oil.
Dave M

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #11 – January 17, 2015, 11:25:10 pm

I had a 3116 customer who replaced several pistons in his. Twice. Low miles.

Even he was surprised

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #12 – January 18, 2015, 09:58:09 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – January 17, 2015, 11:25:10 pm

I had a 3116 customer who replaced several pistons in his. Twice. Low miles.

Even he was surprised

And, what was the cause-- particularly with repeat failures???

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #13 – January 18, 2015, 11:11:35 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – January 18, 2015, 09:58:09 am

And, what was the cause-- particularly with repeat failures???

steve and mary light were the owners. he was very mechanical and if memory serves me he had to in the frame bore two cylinders as their was bore problems. two separate incidents. oil consumption was the first issue. loss of power later?

this is 20 years ago.

not sure if the lights are still around? so cal folks then

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #14 – January 18, 2015, 07:54:45 pm

What's your coolant look like? Hopefully not milky.

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #15 – January 18, 2015, 07:58:24 pm

wolfe10: I only add oil when it is at least 2 qts. below the "ADD mark", the "ADD mark" is my full mark. I do all my oil changes, I put in 19 qts, then check, it is always below the "ADD mark", then I add the last 2 qts, then check and its on the "ADD mark". I use Delo 400 LE. During the last trip then engine temp was steady at 181(thermostat temp).

Pierce: Thanks for the thought about the CAT forums. I agree with you about the source of the oil consumption. I may not want to do any thing about it, but I should know what is causing the consumption.

Dave: I never use anything to start, it is very easy to start. I never see any smoke(black or blue) during driving or starting.

Can a bad turbo suck the engine oil and blow it into the exhaust with out it going thru the engine?

Pat,

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #16 – January 18, 2015, 08:00:03 pm

Hi Dan,

I did not see your post until I had already post the above. I have not checked the coolent, but I will. Are you thinking blown head gasket?

Pat,

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #17 – January 18, 2015, 08:33:06 pm

If a seal is bad on the exhaust side of the turbo, yes, oil could go into the exhaust without going through the engine.

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #18 – January 18, 2015, 09:46:39 pm

the more I remember steves comments it was the cylinders were out of round

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #19 – January 19, 2015, 10:56:36 pm

I checked the coolent and found it to be in good condition, level was good. I spoke to a mechanic today and he think injectors. He says no way to know if it is other than changing them.

Pat,

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #20 – January 20, 2015, 12:55:17 am

Find a good shop.
Throwing parts at an unknown issue is a total waste.

BTW, is your engine breather routed to your intercooler (like a marine application)
or routed to atmosphere?

Also; is this 3116 designated to use only CAT 30 or 40 single weight oil? pc

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #21 – January 20, 2015, 08:14:23 am

Quote from: pthurman48 – January 19, 2015, 10:56:36 pm

... I spoke to a mechanic today and he think injectors. He says no way to know if it is other than changing them.

Pat,

You do have to take then out but any good injector shop can test them and sometimes repair.

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #22 – January 20, 2015, 08:45:56 am

Quote from: pocketchange – January 20, 2015, 12:55:17 am

BTW, is your engine breather routed to your intercooler (like a marine application)
or routed to atmosphere?

Also; is this 3116 designated to use only CAT 30 or 40 single weight oil? pc

On the Caterpillar 3116, crankcase breather is routed to atmosphere-- same as all OTR diesels until EPA compliance in the 2004 time range called for closed systems.

15-40 oil is the recommended viscosity for that engine unless temperatures are extreme.

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #23 – January 21, 2015, 08:57:21 pm

Well today a diesel repair shop looked at the problem, they confirmed that blow by is at reasonable levels(not the problem), the air compressor is not pumping the oil out(not the problem), and there are no oil leaks. I noticed this morning when I started, it did smoke(blue oil) a little and it was not cold start smoke. No blow by tells me the rings and cylinders are ok. I also know the cold side of the turbo is clean and dry(not the problem). I think that only leaves value stem seals and/or injectors??? Any Ideas??

Pat,

Re: Cat 3116 Excessive Oil Consumption

Reply #24 – January 21, 2015, 09:11:39 pm

Quote from: pthurman48 – January 21, 2015, 08:57:21 pm

Well today a diesel repair shop looked at the problem, they confirmed that blow by is at reasonable levels(not the problem), the air compressor is not pumping the oil out(not the problem), and there are no oil leaks. I noticed this morning when I started, it did smoke(blue oil) a little and it was not cold start smoke. No blow by tells me the rings and cylinders are ok. I also know the cold side of the turbo is clean and dry(not the problem). I think that only leaves value stem seals and/or injectors??? Any Ideas??

Pat,

I hope you find an easy solution. been going over my dim memory of what steve light who had a sister coach had issues with. best of my memory was the cylinders may be close together or siamezed and the heat caused the cylinders to ovalize and the oil control ring lost tension.

I hope my memory is faulty but I think I remember he had to had two sleeves installed in frame. one per repair twice..

he was not happy as his maintenance was fanatical.

like I said I hope its something else but you shop feedback sounds like his story. finally tore it down and measured things.

3126 had soft blocks not the 3116 supposedly. wish my memory said it was something easy. he had good power just high oil use as you mentioned.

if the injectors leak with the ULSD fuel my understanding is the diesel fuel washes the oil off the cylinder wall and the rings sealing is affected.

diesel fuel is 2 weight oil. not good for lube.

wish steve and mary light. anyone have an old motorcade book from 20 years ago as if his is still around the planet maybe his contact info is good?

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