Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Topic: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's (Read 2617 times) previous topic - next topic

Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

February 25, 2015, 02:58:23 pm

Since our purchase of a 2001 U270 and joining this forum, I have been formulating a list of items that should be done on older coaches when purchased to insure that the malfunction and breakdown during a trip does not occur. This list may be incomplete and others may want to added to it. The cost to upgrade and replace items does have a cost, however if we were to buy a new motorhome the depreciation that takes place as we drive it off the sales lot is no small amount. Add to that the cost to replace and repair over the next 10 years and the frustration of trips not taken because of on the road repairs. It is my opinion that the cost over the time we will own the Coach will not be that much greater then fixing as it breaks down plus the peace of mind of going out on the road in a coach that is in the best mechanical shape we can make it.

New Tires
New house and engine batteries
Dyno Engine
Engine harmonic balancer pulley
All idler pulleys
Service engine and transmission
Transmission Bearing replacement
Driveline angle and balancer
ABS sensors
Wheel Bearings and seals
Rebuild steering box
Replace all fuel lines
Replace all brake pads
Service Air system
Replace all air springs
Replace height control valves
Replace HWH control pad overlay
Replace all front and rear frame bulkhead bolts with a permanent repair
On the roof, remove the old obsolete antennas, install new antennas and epoxy fill all old screw holes
Replace both A/C units
Replace vent fan
Replace all plastic covers on roof (refer vents, pipe vents, a/c covers)
Re Caulk roof openings
Remove nonskid from roof at ladder.
Add wiring for Solar Panels (if wanted)
Rebuild air vacuum system pump
Service Generator, look at radiator mod for 8Kw units
Replace inverter
Replace 110 volt switching relays (2)
Do the sensor lamp modification to the ac panel
Add means to charge engine batteries while on shore power
Add or refurbish electric shoreline and hose reels
Rebuild dump valves and add third valve
Add SeeLevel gauge system
Replace rear Camera and Monitor
Replace Boost solenoid
Headlight and Taillight upgrade
Replace compartment door handles and those latches that are worn
Replace windows if not dual pane, if dual pane repair seal failures
Replace Entrance Door stay open arm
Replace awning fabrics
Full Paint
Tile and hardwood floors, new carpet in bedroom
Reupholster all Furniture
Replace barrel chair with newer style chair and ottoman
New window coverings in bedroom
Install MCD dual shades for windshield
Renew finish on woodwork and cabinets
Buffout all counters
Replace Front and rear TV's with flat screens, rework cabinets
Replace, Microwave
Replace hotwater heater
Replace water pump
Replace Refrigerator with (1)Atwood or (2) Electric, Marine or Residential type
Replace Furnace with Atwood two stage unit
Replace all heat and A/C plastic outlets
Compartment door stay air springs

Re: R epairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #1 – February 25, 2015, 04:20:57 pm

Re: R epairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #2 – February 25, 2015, 04:57:29 pm

what is the total is you add up all those costs? Just a bit more than the cost of a new coach?

Re: R epairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #3 – February 25, 2015, 05:38:16 pm

Tom: It is a long list, however from looking at the posts on failures and other problems over the last 4 years with the mid 90's to 2001 series coaches, this is what people write in about. Granted some items are must do, some are should do, some are somewhat optional and a few are livability items. I have not put a $$ on it, I don't know if I could be accurate with the numbers. However we will spend money on almost all the the items during our ownership years. Even with the money outlay, we would not give up our Foretravel.

Al

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #4 – February 25, 2015, 09:57:09 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – February 25, 2015, 04:57:29 pm

What is the total if you add up all those costs?

Here's my guess:

Parts and materials: $150,000

Labor (at $100/hour): $100,000

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #5 – February 25, 2015, 10:09:00 pm

Wow quite a list, bunch of $$$$. For me keep up maintenance items, repair obvious problems, add a few upgrades along the way. Then take the rest as it comes at you until you reach you $$ threshold or your patience runs out. JMHO but no way to make a 15-20 year old coach new

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #6 – February 25, 2015, 11:03:22 pm

Seems to me that some of those items might not break during the entire time you own and operate your RV. My system has been to upgrade items as the mood strikes me or as I find inexpensive alternatives.

Plus you forgot the alternator.

Craig

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #7 – February 25, 2015, 11:10:25 pm

I have to admit that I have done a lot of that; tires, batteries, flat screen tv's, idlers, air springs, shocks, cabinet struts (twice), synthetic fluids, one brake, wheel seals, rebuilt toilet, new refrig, central air, rebuilt dryer, back up camera, bath sink faucet, restrung the shades, fiber glass repair on 3 basement doors, air leaks, adjust engine valve clearance, lubes, oil changes, coolant, gen fuel lines, water pump, and more. Had FOT do the windshields, carpet, and generator insulation and someone else the steering box. Right now working on engine compartment insulation and MCD shades when they arrive. I wrote down all the costs, but am afraid to add it up, probably more than I paid for the coach. Only time I had to fix something on a trip was a ride height valve, forgot to mention that.

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #8 – February 25, 2015, 11:28:24 pm

"Journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step"

One day at a time... like any thing important in life, it seems overwhelming and impossible when you try to swallow it in a single bite. Sometimes the challenge (usually, for me...) it is prioritizing the list that is daunting. I guess that is the only good thing about doing a roadside repair... your priorities get real clear! Anyway, If I was to list the work that I have personally done on our coach, I think that I would doubt my sanity

However, every time we stop at a campsite with hookups or pull up to a dump station, I thank my former self for doing all the work to make it as easy and sanitary as it now is. When I glance down at my VMSPC screen or my HD backup camera, I take a little pride and it makes me smile. More to do? Of course! Some of it is genuinely fun and creative, some is mundanity, and some is just plane gritting your teeth and gettin-er-done. I take a lot of pride in the ownership of our coach, and you can't put a price on that!

Don

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #9 – February 25, 2015, 11:34:30 pm

Don, you and I think the same way as I too do not look at it as a "spreadsheet"
Luckily I as you do the work so forget that 100k tag but if someone wants it all done I will attack it for $150k total!!
JohnH

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #10 – February 25, 2015, 11:40:53 pm

Well said Don!

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #11 – February 25, 2015, 11:45:19 pm

We live full time in our coach for 7 years now. Some years nothing more than regular maintenance. Other years, big things like air bags, tires, exhaust , oil leaks, leaking radiator, batteries, etc........ Some things I have done myself, other things had done at MOT, Bernd's, and upgrade our couch by Mitch at Infinity. This year it is fuel lines- better to plan that on my terms than be on the side of the road.

Is it worth it?? You bet!!!

We love being able to go where we want ( the southwest this winter has been the place for sure), when we want. Meeting great people along the way like many of you from the forum at Quartzite make this a great life. We will go as long as we are able and will continue to repair and upgrade as needed to keep us safe and comfortable on the road.

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #12 – February 26, 2015, 12:09:09 am

Some time back a buyer posted such a discussion and analysis and was comparing buying a newish Phenix versus running repairs as needed on an older FT.

He concluded to buy the Phenix, thinking it more likely to be reliable and costs not too unreasonable.

Why? He cited that at his situation in life, downtime for repairs would be detract significantly from his time to enjoy the coach and travel plans. He bought the Phenix.

Sometimes costs are not only dollars. I do not recall anything other than goodwill wishes by our members. That made an impression on me....lost time or trips, breakdowns are part of the balance if one can afford the options. I figure as some said, i may not have all the repairs and certainly not all at once, but time is very valuable too. You can at times trade money for time.

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #13 – February 26, 2015, 12:16:23 am

100% accurate. Thanks for the list. Amazing attention to the threads. Impressed.

If you do your list you have a new coach.

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #14 – February 26, 2015, 12:41:45 am

I have lost the last two replies that I typed, now to recap. As many have said in other posts, the Foretravel coach has "very strong bones". Most of the failures we have are to components supplied by third party OEM's. These components have a time life far less then the coach body. If we can predict when they will fail or are about to fail we would be ahead of the game. How many RV's would not have burned if we changed out the Refrigerator after X years. My training was in aircraft maintenance, Aircraft Maintenance is based on time related component replacement and repair and inspection of discovered defects. Thats what allows DC3's to keep flying after 75 years. Its hard to teach a old dog new tricks.
When I turn over the keys of my Foretravel to the next owner down the road, I plan on it lasting the next 10 years. Keep the replies coming.
Al
.

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #15 – February 26, 2015, 08:00:31 am

This is an interesting discussion. I just checked my records for seven years of ownership. Purchase price: $135,000. Total cost of ownership without fuel: $222,548. In that I include $75,000 in depreciation, which is of course just my estimate(from NADA).

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #16 – February 26, 2015, 08:32:06 am

Good luck, keep us updated on how far along on that list that you get, it should help the resale value when you eventually sell, but don't count on it.

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #17 – February 26, 2015, 08:58:20 am

Seems like you shouldn't count both purchase price and depreciation in your total.

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #18 – February 26, 2015, 09:09:14 am

Quote from: amos.harrison – February 26, 2015, 08:00:31 am

This is an interesting discussion. I just checked my records for seven years of ownership. Purchase price: $135,000. Total cost of ownership without fuel: $222,548. In that I include $75,000 in depreciation, which is of course just my estimate(from NADA).

135,000 + 75,000 = 210,000
222,548 - 210,000 = 12,548 total in repairs and upgrades for 7 years = 1792/yr ave

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #19 – February 26, 2015, 09:43:44 am

Understand how you are looking at it, but you are mixing cash and non cash expenses. By taking the $135k as all cost, you have already said your depreciation is $135k, and the coach has no residual value. It can't depreciate beyond $0 value you should not add an additional depreciation cost.
To achieve the costs you have indicated, you would have to buy it for $135k and then you would have to additionally pay someone $75k to take the cosh off your hands. :-) Just trying to make you feel better!!!! Your Actual expense is

Depreciation plus operating expenses. Interest on any loan and lost investment income on the down payment ( or full 135k amount if you paid cash) should also be added into the expense.
Like I said, you have overstated expense by $135k. :-) Total cash out could be $135k plus operating expense plus interest paid. In this case, you would typically not put lost investment opportunity cost (it is s non cash cost), and you would net any residual value recovery on disposal of the asset (coach) Your true current 7 year cost is $75,000 in depreciation plus $12,548 in repairs/upgrades, or $87,548 using your numbers. I would add any consumables purchased during that time (fuel, oil, propane, misc.), any interest paid (if you have a loan), and any lost investment income on your down payment). That is your 7 year operating expense.

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #20 – February 26, 2015, 11:05:44 am

Imagine buying a 14 year old house and a 14 year old deisel Mercedes. Then write down everything you are going to have to do to make them like new. Probably nearly the same list and about the same cost as the original post.

We are careful to do normal maintenance and watch closely over those things that will wear out and do them before they fail. Most of the upgrades are optional but doing them is fun and rewarding.

Before we bought our coach we had a travel and vacation line in our budget going forward from before. That line is now mostly used for the coach. We are staying on budget even including our recent visit to Xtreme if you spread that out over the time we expect to own the coach.

It is an interesting thing to try to do a cost analysis like this. Think how many things you would never do if you did this for everything. Never buy a house. Never get married. Never have kids. Never have a great dog, An interesting life is priceless.

Oh, and don't forget when you finally sell your coach the difference between what you paid and all the improvements you made and the price you sold it for is a capital loss for tax purposes that can be used to offset capital gains from other sources.

Don't overthink this too much. Go have fun!

Roger

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #21 – February 26, 2015, 11:28:52 am

" capital loss over capital gain for RVs"
Only in US, as Canada does not allow us to claim our coach as secondary (or firstly) domicile. We have to just enjoy the ride so to speak. One of the reasons US people have to pay more on health care etc than we do. Our taxes from everything help pay for services.
Johnh

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #22 – February 26, 2015, 11:50:23 am

To achieve the costs you have indicated, you would have to buy it for $135k and then you would have to additionally pay someone $75k to take the cosh off your hands.
I'm your Huckleberry! ! Pm for info to mail keys and check!

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #23 – February 26, 2015, 12:43:05 pm

Speaking of project lists... here is a small sampling of my most current focus;
A few roof projects;
Done;
1. Moving the curbside Hadley next to its little big brother on the street side.
2. 86'ing the old Winegard Sensar antenna and putting on a wide band omni WireNG antenna for boosting 2g, 3g, and LTE Verizon.
3. Removing CB antenna and covering hole.
4. Redoing cable penetraions for Cat 6 and Antenna cable in place of TV Coax.
5. Resealing the Skylight.
6. Replacing the the fridge vent, reflashing the opening, provisioning for Solar cable.
7. Resealing the Kool-O-Matic fan.
8. Replacing both tank vent caps.
9. Cleaning the roof gutters.

To be done;
Resealing the the endcap moldings.
Resealing the sidewall to roof gutters.
Removing the fantastic fan and installing a new Maxxfan Deluxe Remote ventilation fan.
Removing the luggage rack and filling the holes (to make more room for solar panels).
Washing roof.
Buffing roof.
Installing solar panels.
Installing LED clearance lights.
Installing rear air deflector.
Ladder reseal and minor repairs.

By no means a complete list, but at least I can look at this list and not feel overwhelmed by it

One thing for sure, having the roof protected from water ingress and the solar working will feel like a nice milestone!
Don

Re: Repairs, Replacements and Upgrades for older U270,U295 and 320's

Reply #24 – February 26, 2015, 01:04:12 pm

Wow- big list Don. You are making me tired just reading it...........

Affiliate Notice