1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

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1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

April 29, 2015, 01:50:23 am

Headed up to Conroe early in the morning... to install new Governor, and hopefully get the air bags to fill up and brakes to release.. It's the last two days to get it moved..

Also will try to find fuses or shorts in the leads for all the gauges..

I think it would be stupid to drive without gauges..

I may drain a gallon of existing oil and replace it with a gallon of new just to add some
viscosity to the existing for the 51 mile trip.. its black and a little thin feeling to me..

When I fired up motor for the first time yesterday... there was a puff or so of smoke.. then nothing more.. hoping that's a sign it's pretty tight ..

Wish I had at least another week to work on it before I drive in.. !!!

Mark

(Changed topic title to reflect discussion content - Michelle)

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #1 – April 29, 2015, 09:33:28 am

Mark, Keep us posted, nothing better to do on a rainy day than live vicariously thru your adventures.
Drive carefully.
Gary B

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #2 – April 29, 2015, 09:34:15 am

Going through the hassle of replacing one gallon of oil seems like a waste of your valuable time to me. Better to get the coach home and drain the oil while it's hot.

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #3 – April 29, 2015, 09:37:55 am

Mark,

It will be easier for folks to answer your questions if you posted them in their own topics with related/descriptive titles. General topics and those with lots of different questions that vary from general road service to a a specific filter number often get only a brief glance. Splitting out the sub-discussions after the fact makes for a lot of work for the moderators.

Thanks,

Michelle

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #4 – April 29, 2015, 07:12:32 pm

Mark, when you get time could you please put your name & coach description above your signature flag phrase.

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #5 – April 29, 2015, 11:48:18 pm

Quote from: Michelle – April 29, 2015, 09:37:55 am

Mark,

It will be easier for folks to answer your questions if you posted them in their own topics with related/descriptive titles. General topics and those with lots of different questions that vary from general road service to a a specific filter number often get only a brief glance. Splitting out the sub-discussions after the fact makes for a lot of work for the moderators.

Thanks,

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #6 – April 30, 2015, 12:57:46 am

Update...

A real long day today working on the Coach.. I called Pocket Change and Pierce for advice this afternoon.. thanks Guys.. guess I'm needing someone who owns an 89 like mine.. The bolts wouldn't brake loose holding the Compressor Governor.. I was afraid I would break them.. later decided it most likely isn't a governor problem... I hooked up a little bigger compressor into the 110 volt onboard compressor hose.. the dashboard pressure gauge would never pump up over 30 pounds.. I fired the Detroit up, so running its compressor along with the one I added, it then went as high as 35 pounds.. so.. I feel the Detroit compressor is doing its job along with the governor.. someplace I must have a bad leak.. but I cant hear it leaking anywhere.. finally found the 3 air tanks, they are all side by side hidden in the center of the coach behind the 3 batteries ... I ran the compressors for an hour. when I pushed the foot brake, it would drop pressure on the gauge.. and I didn't feel any air coming out the bottom of the air dryer back in the engine room.
I can hear what sounds like one of the tanks filling with air or leaking?? ... if it were a small leak I know I would hear it.. it must be a major hole some where.. so major, that the compressors cant fill past 35 psi max...
I found three cables to release air from tanks.. pulling all of the cables.. one tank was squirting water, one was squirting mud, and one was clean.. The air tanks are hard see or to get at... the leak could be anywhere.. a bag? maybe one of the tanks rusted thru from the inside, from moisture sitting in the tank un-drained for years ?

My only thoughts are.. maybe to bring in a big gas powered compressor that puts out a constant 100 psi.. so maybe I can hear it leaking some where in the system..

If that doesn't work.. I will bypass the air dryer.. what else is there to do.. ? I cant afford to bring in a service truck or high dollar mechanic.. and tomorrow is the last day I have to remove the coach from the property.. I will drive back to Conroe to talk with the manager of the property.. to try to persuade her into letting me rent for one more month while I try to figure this out...

Mark

I checked fuses under the dash, but couldn't find any blown that would be operating the oil pressure, water temp and transmission temp gauges.. I'll take an Ohms meter with me next trip..

Was there a floor safe that comes with the Grand Villa's ?

if not, I'd like to probably put one in...

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #7 – April 30, 2015, 01:14:53 am

Quote from: amos.harrison – April 29, 2015, 09:34:15 am

Going through the hassle of replacing one gallon of oil seems like a waste of your valuable time to me. Better to get the coach home and drain the oil while it's hot.

Amos, it only took me about 15 minutes to do it.. I feel a little better now

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #8 – April 30, 2015, 08:11:13 am

Mark, see if you can pull up the carpet in front of the pass seat. That is the normal location for the floor safe option.
When we went to pick up our coach four years ago, the guy that cleaned & prepped our coach was all excited about "something" he found. Turned out that when he was vacuuming up front he noticed the carpet was loose, so he pulled up on it to see how much carpet he would have to glue down. That is when he found the safe.

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #9 – April 30, 2015, 08:15:54 am

Mark, If you have not already done it make sure that the drain valves on the three air tanks are all closed, they could pass a major amount of air. The presence of mud and water in those tanks is a major problem, if its in the tanks it could also be in the lines.
My free advice, Call CoachNet and enroll and pay fee, wait til check clears and then call them back and have them tow coach , hopefully they would tow it home for you, if not then to nearest point where repairs can be done. My worry is brakes with mud and water in them.
I bought an old car once, it had hydraulic brakes and every line was rusted thru, no metal lines here but calipers could freeze up and slack adjusters don't need to be corroded.
Gary B

Re: Just bought 1989 grandvilla "part two"

Reply #10 – April 30, 2015, 08:17:09 am

Quote from: Mark of Houston – April 30, 2015, 12:57:46 am

If that doesn't work.. I will bypass the air dryer.. what else is there to do.. ?

Mark,

You obviously have a air leak, probably more than one. This is not unusual, especially in a "resurrection" project. You must get the air situation under control, because you can't move the coach until the suspension is at "ride height". The air dryer doesn't constantly exhaust air, so if you hold your hand under it you won't feel anything coming out until your air system is at max pressure. At that time, if everything works correctly, the dryer will go through a purge cycle. There won't be any question in your mind when that happens - especially if you are standing nearby!

Bypassing the dryer might be more of a project than you imagine. You can search this Forum for numerous posts on that subject.

Bypassing the dryer will probably not fix your air leak(s), unless the only leak in your system is the purge valve in the dryer (unlikely).

I'm not trying to discourage you - just want you to know that chasing air leaks can be a long, frustrating chore. I HIGHLY recommend you find SOME way to leave the coach where it is, until you have time to get it into proper traveling condition. Or, get it towed (on a flatbed).

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #11 – April 30, 2015, 10:15:39 am

Quote from: Gary Bouland – April 30, 2015, 08:15:54 am

Mark, If you have not already done it make sure that the drain valves on the three air tanks are all closed, they could pass a major amount of air. The presence of mud and water in those tanks is a major problem, if its in the tanks it could also be in the lines.
My free advice, Call CoachNet and enroll and pay fee, wait til check clears and then call them back and have them tow coach , hopefully they would tow it home for you, if not then to nearest point where repairs can be done. My worry is brakes with mud and water in them.
I bought an old car once, it had hydraulic brakes and every line was rusted thru, no metal lines here but calipers could freeze up and slack adjusters don't need to be corroded.
Gary B

Thanks Gary.. very frustrating .. I did pay for a roadside service already and the checked cleared.. but its for roadside emergencies isn't it? Its parked in a storage Lot... I don't know if that constitutes usage..

Not to mention.. it's not aired up, how can they tow it if the brakes are locked? and the suspension is not at traveling height. ?

I pulled the drain cock wire cables from the underside of the coach.. I assume they are spring loaded? I cant really get to the tanks as there is minimum access to where they are installed.
I guess jacking up the coach or ramping it would probably be the only way to check?

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #12 – April 30, 2015, 10:23:14 am

Quote from: cajk – April 30, 2015, 08:17:09 am

Mark,

because you can't move the coach until the suspension is at "ride height". I HIGHLY recommend you find SOME way to leave the coach where it is, until you have time to get it into proper traveling condition. Or, get it towed (on a flatbed).

Thanks cajk, your saying it cant be towed either when it's not at ride height.? and with the brakes locked, how would they get it on and off a flat bed?

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #13 – April 30, 2015, 10:44:29 am

Mark,

Sorry I was not home the second time you called. Please leave your phone number and I will call you back.

I would pressurize the system with air from your 110V compressor you said you have. You can pick up a mini-dryer to go inline if you like. As our coaches are really different, you need to find out from an owner of your type coach where the best spot is to pressurize the air system. We did this all the time to move fire trucks. Since the pressure builds to 30 psi pretty quickly, I suspect after all these years, an airbag has a leak. Hard to find with the diesel running but with the coach pressurized from an outside source, you should be able to hear the leak or use a soap/water solution to see the leak. Does not take much to bring the pressure down.

With water and mud coming out of the air tanks, you may need to replace the air dryer. In the old days, we did not have dryers and had to drain the tanks each morning. Don't move the coach unless you have around 100 psi on the gauge. It will cycle back and forth between about 80 and 100. After it comes up to pressure and the air bags fill, don't let your mechanic friend climb under without safety suspension inserts to keep the coach from rapidly coming down and crushing anyone underneath should an old airbag suddenly fail.

Watch the thermostat like a hawk until you are sure it is working. The DDEC will shut it down before damage but not a good idea. Don't idle the engine for more than 5 minutes. Don't expect the parking brake to be effective on much of a hill. Especially until you have checked the brakes, Buy and use chocks everytime you park.

The towing company can release the parking brake. Dangerous to do if you don't know what you are doing as the spring is highly compressed and can cause serious injury. Towing companies can also feed air to your rig to bring it up to height. We used an air line from one truck to another to tow with a chain when we had a dead engine. Not recommending towing with a chain!

Pierce

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #14 – April 30, 2015, 12:36:49 pm

Unless I'm missing something....you're problem IS the air dryer. If it doesn't signal the governor, the compressor will not pump air. Bypassing is simple once you have the parts. Join the 2 large lines together and plug off the line from the governor and you should air up whether you have leaks or not.

First thing I would do is remove the 2 filters off the dryer and see if it will air up without them. If so, just change filters. If not, bypass and you can drive without it.

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #15 – April 30, 2015, 01:22:13 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – April 30, 2015, 08:11:13 am

Mark, see if you can pull up the carpet in front of the pass seat. That is the normal location for the floor safe option.
When we went to pick up our coach four years ago, the guy that cleaned & prepped our coach was all excited about "something" he found. Turned out that when he was vacuuming up front he noticed the carpet was loose, so he pulled up on it to see how much carpet he would have to glue down. That is when he found the safe.

Thanks Nitehawk !

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #16 – April 30, 2015, 01:27:49 pm

Quote from: Twig – April 30, 2015, 12:36:49 pm

Unless I'm missing something....you're problem IS the air dryer. If it doesn't signal the governor, the compressor will not pump air. Bypassing is simple once you have the parts. Join the 2 large lines together and plug off the line from the governor and you should air up whether you have leaks or not.

First thing I would do is remove the 2 filters off the dryer and see if it will air up without them. If so, just change filters. If not, bypass and you can drive without it.

Thanks Twig, I was thinking the same, but others are saying different..

I guess I'm confused why my separate 120 volt compressor tied into the existing 120 volt on-board utility compressor wouldn't pump up the system either... the dryer shouldn't have had anything to do with that? or no?

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #17 – April 30, 2015, 01:40:59 pm

Mark, When you tell Coach Net that you are BROKE DOWN its really none of their business that it has been setting. Simply tell them that you cant get up air and want towed home, they may tell you they will tow you only to nearest place that do repairs. They will also offer to send a mobile mechanic, however if they send a mechanic and he can't get it going they will not then pay for a tow.
Wish I was closer and I would be glad to help but its a long way to Georgia.

Gary B

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #18 – April 30, 2015, 02:39:34 pm

Quote from: Gary Bouland – April 30, 2015, 01:40:59 pm

Mark, When you tell Coach Net that you are BROKE DOWN its really none of their business that it has been setting. Simply tell them that you cant get up air and want towed home, they may tell you they will tow you only to nearest place that do repairs. They will also offer to send a mobile mechanic, however if they send a mechanic and he can't get it going they will not then pay for a tow.
Wish I was closer and I would be glad to help but its a long way to Georgia.

Gary B

Thanks Gary,

My road side service has to tow me anywhere I want up to 100 miles at no charge, that was a stipulation I looked for before I signed with anyone..

Another problem might be that my coach was pulled in and not backed in like all the other coaches. It will have to be pulled from the back side... I don't know if you can or should do that with the Foretravel..

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #19 – April 30, 2015, 06:34:12 pm

Mark,

Our later coaches don't have a 110v compressor. Just another difference between years.

Pierce

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #20 – April 30, 2015, 07:17:07 pm

Quote from: Twig – April 30, 2015, 12:36:49 pm

Unless I'm missing something....your problem IS the air dryer. If it doesn't signal the governor, the compressor will not pump air.

Twig might be right - it could be the purge valve sticking on the dryer. The D2 governor and the dryer must both work properly to maintain air system pressure. HOWEVER, if I was in your situation, (and having had the pleasurable experience of replacing the air dryer on my coach), I would FIRST focus my attention on the D2. It is MUCH simpler to replace the D2 than to do almost anything to the dryer. This thread has a link to the D2 tech info:
Air Compressor With the D2 Bendix Governor

Bypassing is simple once you have the parts. Join the 2 large lines together and plug off the line from the governor and you should air up whether you have leaks or not.

Some (better mechanics than I) might consider "Bypassing" simple - I did not find it so easy. If you decide to go this route, this thread might help:
Air Dryer Bypass Demo

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #21 – April 30, 2015, 10:37:20 pm

Update..

I called the storage lot, today was the deadline it had to be moved..

She knew I was there all day yesterday till dark working on it.. Told her I'd like to send her some money via credit card over the phone, said I have it running now, but the air suspension and air brakes are leaking and will require more time. She took my $145. for another month and reiterated the owner of the property wants that space now. I guess because she saw me there so many times in the last 2 weeks making an effort, She decided to work with me. What a huge albatross off my shoulders... She was actually very polite and friendly on the phone, unlike the vibe I encountered two weeks ago !

The dryer will be the first thing I address on Monday or Tuesday..

I bought a new Bendix Governor, I may as well install it too.
I can put a cheater pipe on the D2 Governor next to the compressor, the bolts are extremely tight..
If they should snap off, I don't see an issue of just letting it hang, suspended by the two lines running to it.. or securing it elsewhere.. there isn't a lot of room to work with it.. the top line comes off pretty easy.. the bottom intake line wont come off till I unbolt the D2 Governor from the compressor.

I removed the quarter panel of the coach covering the passenger side of the Detroit motor yesterday.. it gave me better access to the dryer and motor... it's installed next to the power steering pump.
It will be much easier to change the oil and filters now with the panel off. The docking light wasn't even wired up ... Someone has obviously removed it before.. some of the stainless screws were missing.

Mark

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #22 – April 30, 2015, 10:47:05 pm

Mark when you have your 110 compressor running is your key on ? On my 92 I can air up my tanks but if I don't turn my key on it will not air up my bags.

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #23 – April 30, 2015, 11:05:17 pm

Mark, glad to see you removed panel as some owners seem to refuse doing that and yet it makes life so much easier to work on things. I have full body paint but do not let that stop me. Goog luck on it all. The tow guys can relaese the brakes mechanically and pull it out and then tow. maybe life would be a lot smoother if you did get it home regardless off the extra time you now have at storage. Things allways seem to go better when you have everything handy and not having to drive back and forth.
JohnH

Re: 1989 Grandvilla air system and leaks

Reply #24 – April 30, 2015, 11:43:22 pm

Quote from: Andy 2 – April 30, 2015, 10:47:05 pm

Mark when you have your 110 compressor running is your key on ? On my 92 I can air up my tanks but if I don't turn my key on it will not air up my bags.

Well, that's interesting... no, I didn't have the key on with just the 110 compressor running.. but I did have the Detroit actually running for a while as to try to utilize both compressor's.. so, the key was on that time, but stil to no avail

thanks

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