Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Topic: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic) (Read 5396 times) previous topic - next topic - Topic derived from Please confirm waste ...

Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

June 05, 2015, 09:01:46 am

When I added the third valve, I redid the plumbing from the gray & black valves out. This allowed me to keep
the third valve close to the wall.
I can leave my hose attached and close the bay door, but my 38' may be different from the longer ones.
Jim

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #1 – June 05, 2015, 09:06:10 am

Quote from: jtm2014 – June 05, 2015, 09:01:46 am

When I added the third valve, I redid the plumbing from the gray & black valves out. This allowed me to keep
the third valve close to the wall.
I can leave my hose attached and close the bay door, but my 38' may be different from the longer ones.
Jim

Great to see the photos! This is exactly what Susan & I need to do with our 1999 U320. Many thanks!

Richard & Susan

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #2 – June 05, 2015, 09:22:48 am

Quote from: LookingWest – June 05, 2015, 09:06:10 am

Quote from: jtm2014 – June 05, 2015, 09:01:46 am

When I added the third valve, I redid the plumbing from the gray & black valves out. This allowed me to keep
the third valve close to the wall.
I can leave my hose attached and close the bay door

Great to see the photos!

I agree - that's the first I can recall on a 2003. Jim - did you happen to take any "behind the wall" photos during the retrofit to show how you modified the plumbing?

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #3 – June 05, 2015, 09:31:33 am

No sorry on the photos, I was in a campground when I was doing the work and just wanted to get it done.
But, if you look in Reply #21 from Steve, picture #2-(bolts removed)- I replaced all that piping so that I could get
rid of that white adapter you see in the photo.
That allowed me to get the third valve plumbed in closer to the wall.
Hope that helps.

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #4 – June 05, 2015, 09:41:24 am

If you have the space, put in a PVC ball valve. They seem to be more robust.

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #5 – June 05, 2015, 01:55:26 pm

Quote from: Steve – June 04, 2015, 09:56:43 pm

the 3-part SS setup sounds awesome .

Steve,

I am pretty sure that Don (Acousticart) did an impressive stainless steel panel, but I do not remember the details.

Of course everything he does is impressive!

Trent

Edit: Found this picture, which I think is his:

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #6 – June 07, 2015, 12:11:10 pm

Third Waste Valve, 2001, U320, 36' single slide.

Don's work is superb. An inspiration to us all.

This task, replace the interior waste valves and add a third valve. Add a direct fresh water fill.

The extra structure in my 2001 36' with one slide changes the arrangement of the parts compared to coaches without slides and other models and years. The original setup had a single fiberglass panel to which all of the parts mounted plus a top piece. The 3" waste drain pipe comes through at the bottom, the gray and black valve handles are mounted in this panel and the service faucet is also mounted in this panel. And there is a 110v outlet, a phone jack and the cable input connection. The lower section of this bay has a black rubber liner that come up about 5" on the sides and the fiberglass panel.

Disassembly
Turn off the water to the service faucet and drain as much water out as possible. Disassembly requires peeling the glued-on rubber liner from the fiberglass panel, removing a dozen or so screws and then trying to manipulate the panel with the valve handles and PEX lines to the faucet still attached. The PEX lines need to be disconnected as well as the cable center wires from each valve and the cable guide from the valve cable mount. The 110v outlet has to be removed as well as the cable/phone connection. The faucet can be removed from the panel from the outside but the rest of the faucet and the water connections are attached to the panel. mark which cable goes to which valve.

This was not easy, sitting on the ground, bad knees and hips bent like pretzels, arms through impossibly narrow openings doing things you cannot see. It took a while but I got it done. All I could think of was trying to put it back together and then trying to service any of this stuff in the future.

Replacing the main waste valves.
I carefully located where the new third valve was going to go on the waste exit pipe. I marked the location so that when the third valve was installed and a 45Â° fitting attached the drain hose could be connected and the door closed.

The gray and black tanks were emptied, flushed and emptied again and the coach tipped toward the curb side. Each valve has four bolts that go through the flanges on each side of the valve body and the valve body. They also go through the two halves of the valve cable attachment. (These bolts are a bit longer.) There are two bolts and nuts at the top of the valve cable attachment. Once all of these bolts are off the "h" shaped outer drain pipe assembly can be removed. Clean the flanges carefully. I cut the outlet pipe to the correct length.

Use plumber's silicone grease on the four cleaned flange faces, one rubber gasket goes on each flange, wipe some silicone grease around the face of each side of the valve blade. Carefully reassemble the valve bodies, cable attachment and the outer "h" section and tighten the bolts. Check the operation of the valves as you go. Some long socket wrench extensions and a universal joint made this easier. Once the cables are ready to go back in the outer cable sleeve fits into the top of the cable attachment and the wire goes into the valve handle. A set screw makes the connection firm. Save the allen wrench.

I wanted to keep the rubber liner, it seems to help keep things tidy. And I wanted this to be easier to reassemble and service if needed in the future. So I sketched up a three piece solution and went to see my neighborhood sheet metal guy. "No problem", he said.

Reassembly
The Bottom Section (14 ga stainless steel) has the rubber liner and the valve handles attached. With this part installed, the cables are easy to attach to the black and gray tank main valves. I added a few gallons of water to each waste tank, leveled the coach and did a paper towel under each valve for a couple hours drip test. Dry towels.

The Middle Section (14 ga stainless steel) has the 110v outlet and the cable/telephone connection and the connections for the hot and cold PEX lines. This was pretty easy to install. The PEX connections are hand tightened (plus a half turn with a wrench). The electrical outlet is crimped on to the Romex cable and feeds through the hole and is attached with two screws from the front. The phone/cable also feeds through the hole and attaches from the front. Once that was fixed in place I reinstalled the outside part of the service faucet (use silicon grease on the rubber washers). I opened the manifold valves to the faucet, bled out air and ran water through the lines. I left the pump on and did another paper towel under each set of connections behind the panel for a couple hours drip test. Dry towels.

We talked for a while about no faucet, maybe just a set of valves and a spray hose. Lots of appeal there but we use the faucet frequently for some warm soapy water to remove bugs from the front of the coach before they petrify. There are bugs up north here that approach the size of small birds and seem to be made up of mostly green and yellow goo. So we kept the faucet. I repurposed a 50' 3/8" air line with hose fittings on each end as a service hose. Very compact on an extension cord reel. Easy to get all around the coach as needed.

Then I fit in the Upper Section (also 14 ga stainless steel) and finished attaching it. A bit of silicon seal went here and there. The light was attached to the top panel. I didn't even know there was one there until I started taking things apart. I moved it to the side wall and used an LED bulb.

I doesn't look all that different from the original but it is much more serviceable and the third valve will work well.

And I got the direct fresh water fill installed as well.

I knew the big doors on my barn would come in handy.

Parts List

Inside Valve, cable actuated (2)
Amazon.com: Valterra T40BH Valve: Automotive

Outside Valve with handle (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1003VPM Bladex 3" Waste Valve Body with Metal Handle:...

Slip Flange (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1005 3" Slip Hub Flange: Automotive

Flange with Adapter Lugs (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1009 3" Bayonet Flange: Automotive

Termination Cap (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra Products, Inc. T1020 3" Black Termination Cap with...

90 degree Adapter (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1023 90Â° Clearview Adapter: Automotive

45 Degree Adapter (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1026-1 45Â° Clearview Adapter with 3" Bay Lug: Automotive

A New Two Part 20' Hose (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra D04-0275 20 Feet Dominator Sewer Hose Kit: Automotive

Hose End Caps (2)
Amazon.com: Valterra T1020-3VP Drip Cap Set: Automotive

Direct Water Fill (1)
Amazon.com: Valterra A01-0176LFVP White Lead-Free Metal Recessed Water...

Photos
I hope I did this right, photo links to an album.
The selected media item is not currently available.

Well that didn't work. Back to third grade for me.

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #7 – June 07, 2015, 12:57:57 pm

Thanks Trent. That is a picture of my first version where I still had the Valterra type bayonet connection. It was always a plan to change it out for a Wastemaster/Drainmaster camlock set up, which I did about a year ago or so. For this, I moved the third valve behind the panel so as to allow for the longer camlock connect to be as close as possible to the panel. This gave the necessary clearance for the compartment door to be closed. There was plenty of room to spare... NOT! When all was said and done, it would not have been possible without completely redoing all the waste piping from the tanks if there had been a few millimeters less of clearance between the old cable pull valves and the panel. Here is a a link to the write up and a picture as it is now.
99' U270 Camlock Wastemaster Sewer Hose Install

Quote from: TulsaTrent – June 05, 2015, 01:55:26 pm

Steve,

I am pretty sure that Don (Acousticart) did an impressive stainless steel panel, but I do not remember the details.

Of course everything he does is impressive!

Trent

Edit: Found this picture, which I think is his:

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #8 – June 07, 2015, 01:10:12 pm

Thanks for the compliment Roger, back at you!
Looks great and nice write up... It always takes a bit of time to do these write ups, especially if your are including product links etc. But the bonus is that later on, you get to look back at it and see what you did. I find that I often forget some essential details of a project if I just rely on memory. Doing the write ups may help someone else faced with a similar issue, but I find the ability to look back at my posts and pictures to be an excellent way to document what I have done and enough reason to do it jus for enlightened self interest. That it may help someone else is icing on the cake!
Don

Quote from: Home2fromHastings – June 07, 2015, 12:11:10 pm

Third Waste Valve, 2001, U320, 36' single slide.
Don's work is superb. An inspiration to us all.

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #9 – June 07, 2015, 01:36:23 pm

Don,

Thanks for the updated picture and the link to your project.

*Just looking at the picture*, I do not see the third valve handle; where is it located?

Thanks for the inspiration and trailblazing you have done and the complete sharing of your projects. You are an inspiration for all of us Wannabees. If I ever get frustrated, I just have to refer to some of your "skeleton" pictures from your early days!

Trent

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #10 – June 07, 2015, 02:03:20 pm

Quote from: Home2fromHastings – June 07, 2015, 12:11:10 pm

Third Waste Valve, 2001, U320, 36' single slide.
I wanted to keep the rubber liner, it seems to help keep things tidy. And I wanted this to be easier to reassemble and service if needed in the future. So I sketched up a three piece solution and went to see my neighborhood sheet metal guy. "No problem", he said.

Roger, Roger, Roger; WOW!!

Not only is your project impressive, but your detailed write-up and pictures are certainly a timely help for my ongoing project.

The picture showing your rubber liner looks pristine; is it really the original liner? Mine is coming off in pieces, so I will have to find a replacement. Any suggestions? I've got some aluminum diamond plate, but the rubber seems more practical.

It would really help me to see your sketch for the sheet metal guy. Even if mine is a different size, your conceptual sketch will certainly communicate a lot to him.

Is your third stainless piece flat, or does it have a 90 degree bend and include part of the ceiling.

Your pictures clearly show that not all Foretravels have been maintained the same. Mine is only one year older, but some of your pictures (like the rubber flooring) look brand new in comparison.

Congratulations, and thanks for sharing.

Trent

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #11 – June 07, 2015, 03:03:08 pm

I aim to be of service Trent

The third valve handle pulls straight up, maybe easier to see in the picture below.
Don

Quote from: TulsaTrent – June 07, 2015, 01:36:23 pm

Don,
*Just looking at the picture*, I do not see the third valve handle; where is it located?

Thanks for the inspiration and trailblazing you have done and the complete sharing of your projects. You are an inspiration for all of us Wannabees. If I ever get frustrated, I just have to refer to some of your "skeleton" pictures from your early days!

Trent

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #12 – June 07, 2015, 05:24:27 pm

Thanks, Don.

Now that I know where it is, I can see it in your earlier picture, too.

Most of the pictures show it pulling to the right. You and Roger both have it coming straight up, which makes more sense to me. Unless it interferes with the black tank handle, or the side of the "square" valve body happens to be thinner on the side than the bottom.

Finally got my back panels off and discovered another gotcha. Most of the pictures we have seen show the the ABS plumbing and the PEX hoses, and little else. I discovered that there are several heater hoses running hither and yon. It is certainly doable, but not the "piece of cake" I was dreaming about.

Also, it looks like I am going to have to use the original valve bodies because of the "H" frame with the cable sheath mount at the top. The ones I ordered and saw discussed from Amazon have the wire cable terminal, but not the top part that let's the wire cable slide up and down the cable "sheath."

Looks like I would have been better off just ordering the package with two seals and the nuts and bolts, which was cheaper. Or am I missing something. Or have I just confused everyone else, being too dumb to be confused myself?

Will let y'all know if the hero saves the damsel and wins in the end.

Trent

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #13 – June 07, 2015, 06:10:45 pm

The Rubber Liner
Mine was in pretty good shape but to get at the main valves it had to come off. Some careful easing it off with a long thin scraper did the trick. Glued on with some sort of contact cement. Mine had no tears in it and it cleaned up well so I just reused it.

The Cable Attachment Extensions to the Valve Body
I bought valve bodies ready for the cable wire and reused the original cable attachment extensions. Much cheaper that way. Unless yours are broken there is no reason not to use them. Same with cables. They appear to be stainless steel. Mine were in good shape. I cleaned and lubed them well. I painted the gray water tank valve handle gray.

Third Panel
The third panel is a 90° piece that extends the back wall up another 4" and then out towards the outside of the coach about 9" to the bottom of the slide opening reinforcement. The 2001 coaches with slides have some extra structure under the slide opening the extends down into the bays. My first picture shows the water fill mounted in this structure, basically a truss made of steel tubing. My water fill and water pump switches are mounted in this above the waste half of the bay. This structure takes up about 1/3 of the height of the bay.

As I am discovering as I meet more owners and see their coaches, there are many differences from year to year and even within years. Dave M has the exact same coach as mine (expect for everything he has done to his and I have done to mine) and they are only a few build numbers apart but many small things are different. So be inspired and measure carefully since yours will be unique.

I will send a sketch of my metal parts.they are pretty simple, most any shop can fabricate them for you. Stainless is tough to work with. 14 ga is about 0.08 inches and it was hard to drill the bigger 1-1/8" and 5/8" holes and hard to saw the openings. It would have been much easier to work with steel and then (harder) to get them powder coated. Cost would have been about the same.

Roger

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #14 – June 07, 2015, 06:45:12 pm

There must be a subtle design difference between the 03s and 05s. I had the Thetford connection removed and a Valterra valve installed with a horizontal pull. I regularly attach a 90 degree elbow (facing down) and close the bay door with no issues. When the coach is available I'll post pics. No panels were removed and it was a simple straight forward change.

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #15 – June 07, 2015, 06:52:58 pm

I sorta copied Dons idea, but used 3 sheets of aluminum instead of stainless steel.outlets in top panel, nothing in middle panel and dump valves/ water faucet in lower panel. Aluminum is sure easy to work with!

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #16 – June 07, 2015, 07:22:48 pm

Mark, I could have just cut off the outlet pipe and added a third valve without taking anything apart in our 2001. But I was getting a bit of seepage from the main tank valves and figured they were cheap to replace. They were. But the serviceability issue lead me to rebuild the panels as well. Aluminium would be a good choice for material. A bit cheaper, easier to machine. If I was doing it again I would probably use aluminum. Each year seems to be a bit different.

I hope all of these ideas help the next person who has to fix their main valves or wants to add a third valve.

Roger

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #17 – June 07, 2015, 07:34:50 pm

One thing I just learned was Valterra makes several flange options that bolt to the valve. There's a Hub and a Spigot. The hub is for gluing over a pipe, the spigot is gluing into a fitting. It appears Foretravel used both in the OEM configuration to save space.
The Valterra catalog list them all: Downloads - Valterra.com | Valterra.com
Once you have the right part number it's easy to search for it. Amazon has an amazing selection of Valterra parts.

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #18 – June 07, 2015, 07:43:41 pm

Roger,

Fantastic job, I'm envious of both what you and Don have done! ... But there is no way in he-double toothpicks that I'm going to open up that panel again

I can only due that every 5 years as thats all the money I have for the curse jar.

Did I miss what you did with the tank sensors? I see the former location noted.

Thank you for another super write up, I know that takes a lot of work but is SO helpful for others, and a lot of fun to read.

(PS I "fixed" your album links, they were find but you can't add the spaces around the '=' sign ... its smg id=x not smg id = x)

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #19 – June 07, 2015, 08:39:42 pm

Thanks Steve. I probably should have tried something simple with one picture. I see you saw I figure out bold. 😀 I was able to move photos to an album from my laptop but it doesn't seem to work from my iPad.

I did remove the old sensors. They were really gross. I didn't even want to try cleaning them. No wonder they never read with any accuracy. Could have left them in but I like tidy. I put in a See Level system last fall. Very Nice!

The access panel you put in is a great idea too. I thought about leaving the whole thing open, that would leave inspection and service easy but I worry about critters. I need to get one of those bore scopes to look in those hidden spaces. Scuba Guy and I looked down our AC ducts with his. Pretty cool.

Doing these write ups is like Don said, as much for ourselves as others. If we can help even one other owner give a project a try and help them be successful it is worth the effort. This is the best part of this community. Everyone can contribute, everyone can benefit, everyone can learn.

Roger

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #20 – June 07, 2015, 09:07:07 pm

Wow Roger, now that the gallery is working, I would say you set a new standard for detailed write ups!

One which I will aspire to once we have finished the moving of our home base to the SKP's Co-Op park near Temecula... I have quite a backlog of projects that I have pictures for. I guess I need to spend some time and figure out how to use the Gallery as you did, and also place pictures inline with the relevant body of text. What a resource this forum is!

Don

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #21 – June 07, 2015, 10:52:26 pm

What's the purpose of the rubber liner ?

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #22 – June 07, 2015, 11:17:46 pm

I guess to trap and contain spills. The faucet dribbles after shutting it off occasionally. Lets you rinse that part of the bay. I guess this is another example of yours is different from mine.

I have found it helpful in keeping this section clean.

Roger

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #23 – June 08, 2015, 12:46:53 pm

Quote from: Home2fromHastings – June 07, 2015, 07:22:48 pm

Mark, I could have just cut off the outlet pipe and added a third valve without taking anything apart in our 2001.

That was the point I was trying to make in a subtle way for others. Don't get me wrong, I admire the amazing things you and others can do but, sometimes it is ok to just do the simple thing if that is all that is needed.

Re: Recent third dump valve installations (split from another topic)

Reply #24 – June 08, 2015, 01:57:20 pm

Trent, here is a sketch of my panels. Can't attach pics to PM. Measure your setup carefully.

Mark, you can get a third valve with a female bayonet fitting on one side and a male on the other side. Some folks have done that too. Lots of ways to accomplish the task. Sooner or later the main valves are likely going to need some maintenance or replacement. I would rather do this now when it is not a very nasty emergency.

Roger

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