IRV2 - Page 2

Topic: IRV2 (Read 2738 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: IRV2

Reply #25 – June 26, 2015, 10:10:39 am

Quote from: Roland Begin – June 26, 2015, 10:02:21 am

Isn't that what Costco, BJ, and Sam's do? Granted they are slated as some kind of "discount?" operation but they still charge you to do shop.

The fee at those places is for the "discount." One can argue about whether or not their "discount" price is really lower than other stores' prices, but that's how it's presented.

Re: IRV2

Reply #26 – June 26, 2015, 11:07:39 am

The point is if you have a question about a Foretravel coach no matter how old you should not have to go through a gate keeper to verify if you are a member of a club or not. If I have a question about the coach I want to know the answer quickly and not have to wait. If my needs can not be met then it is time to get rid of the coach.

We have beat this dead horse several times.

Reese

Re: IRV2

Reply #27 – June 26, 2015, 12:40:29 pm

I may be naïve, but I still hold out hope that Foretravel will see the error of their current attitude about customer service to owners of older coaches (and apparently, newer coaches as well) and do a mea culpa and a course change before it's too late. But then I have always chosen to believe in the best possible outcome from a given set of circumstances, if it doesn't work out that way, I get over it...
Don

Re: IRV2

Reply #28 – June 26, 2015, 01:07:30 pm

I believe that it comes down to the new company owners not understanding how the RV owners world operates.

Owner buys coach, new or used.

Parks coach and gets into conversation with person about it (Foretravels seem to spark conversations, at least mine does).

Owner either praises manufacturer or complains.

Person now is "convinced" that he has an accurate view of that manufacturer.

We had so many people ask about ours that we have given tours like a stately home. I even had James from Xtreme send me some of his literature to give to people who wanted to know who painted it.

We first saw Jeff and Suzanne's (Two Hams in a Can) coach and it was that that settled us on a Foretravel.

In other words. Don't p**s off the owners they are your best sales people that you never know about.

Keith

Re: IRV2

Reply #29 – June 26, 2015, 08:23:45 pm

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – June 25, 2015, 11:56:47 am

Cashflash Bob where are you?

Here is the link by the way:

Pay to talk to tech - iRV2 Forums

Keith

Ah east Texas mentality at its best. Better to have raised the hourly shop rate which is expected occasionally if you really needed the money. Which I doubt.

Maybe a commission for James? Well worth it. Encyclopedic memory. I prefer to talk to the horses mouth and the $25 could be charged on need and then good for a year afterwards?

If the $25 was necessary to avoid overloading everyone as they have made 6000 coaches that are hard to wear out then I understand it.

He was well versed when I met him on October 1987 and I assume his product knowledge has gotten better.

Maybe he was tired and ready to do something else or nothing. I'd pay him more.

The east Texas way is to charge in advance the $25.

If I knew in advance the fee was $25 and it would be good for the next year then that's a judgement I may like.

No one works for free. Good way to keep Triana. If that's what's happening.

My good customer support was somewhat self centered as I was the sales manager on a tiny salary and a percentage commission. They thought they had a fish when the hired me as no one had ever made any money on the same pay plan.

I asked the national sales manager jokingly to get out of my way after shaking hands.

He looked at me funny. Probably wondering if I had him or he had me.

He laughed later after I outsold the factory sales store from 1369 miles away.

Right product. Poor presentation. No salesmanship or Analyse of every customer contact.

Yes my guys and I sat down and discussed every single sales/service opportunity.

At $1,100 actual cost per contact you needed to increase your percentages to maximize the return on investment(ads and lot beautification and rally and service performed for free).

No trick if you know how to build these to build them. How to market them and get the customers to ask you to buy your product is the art.

Bet there is no nice display at FOT indoors? Plants. Carpeting.

Do you sit across from the salesman with a desk in between you? Confrontational.

Across the corner at an angle works better. A semi closed area for privacy with a 2/3 blocking wall with no door works best. Glass halfway up the walls.

Remove the sales awards from the walls. Picture of wife on the desk at an angle. Visible to the customer.

Picture of a coach in some beautiful area on the wall. Mine was a Travco in red square. Large. Medium quality framed. No cut border.

No calculator.

Push the customers chairs back a bit. Turn around your product info loose leaf three ring book to face the customer across the corner and mention you have some info to share.

Whoever moves the chair closer is the boss.

I made more money than the factory management team and they never begrudged me it as they knew they did not really know to help and sell customers professionally.

Bob McGrath was the exception as a factory salesman then. He killed the customers with kindness and help first then helped them to buy a coach.

He was cheaper also. Not good for Foretravel necessarily as the profit paid for better coaches.

Sorry for the long post. Been there done that.

Funny thing was when I left in 1989 I warned them that long term they needed a good overall idea sales manager or they would slowly slip back.

Hate to have been right. No slides. No paint killed them

Moved too slowly. As usual.

Not like it. Understand it.

Re: IRV2

Reply #30 – June 26, 2015, 10:05:19 pm

The brand is endangered and soon will be extinct. The attrition rate as older coaches are retired from services is going to be severe over the next few years. With fewer coaches on the road, less will be in for service. There will not be enough on the road to spread the word and the foretravel brand will just fade into the sunset.

10-20 units a year (regardless of margins) is not enough to keep a company alive. They leaving the road faster and faster each year.

Saying they can't make a 500-600k unit is BS. They have all the intellectual property. Manufacturing is more efficient than ever. Outsource frame and chassis fabrication to a local company that specializes in it and has all the CNC cutting tables and robotic welders.

Getting rid of dealers is horrible idea. Where will people get their RV's worked on?

With no lower price range units, there is no way to get buyers that will move up to flagship units.

I know many here are older and this may be their last coach. The younger folks, well we have no options other than a prevost (too big!).

Give a nice solid neutral classic interior. I know darn near EVERYBODY I've talk to that has purchases a brand new SOB diesel pusher said there is always something breaking or shaking loose.

The brand is on its last legs. The Realm won't save it.

Re: IRV2

Reply #31 – June 26, 2015, 11:06:45 pm

We still think our 2002 U320 is a fine Piece of machinery and design. We have had work done at FOT, MOT and other places as required and admittedly MOT is more customer oriented.

I would still rather have a 10 year old FT than any new SOB. Still true for us.

If FOT chooses to do the things that they feel are important I only have a few choices: Live with their choices and continue to use them, Live with their choices and don't use them or Live with them and use them as required. We choose to use them as required. I must admit it is less and less every year.

There are lots of comments and threads about these issues and I guess that they will continue to pop up as we try to determine "when" we choose to use FOT. In the mean time MOT is carving out a formidable name in service and deservedly so.

FOT is quite aware of these threads that identify concerns/problems/perceptions. How they choose to respond is their choice.

FWIW - I have ordered parts over the phone and in person from FOT and although I have not been greeted with ear to ear smiles they have been able to sell me the parts as required/when required. Regarding the Premium $25.00 charge - we paid it and hope we never have to use it. We also have been given a few phone numbers for MOT personnel and have not used them either.

In most cases the FoFum members have way more experience in how our coach operates and where to get replacement parts and this is where I turn first. Then it's a matter of completing the repair myself, having FOT, MOT or another service provider complete it for me.

We all have choices. As a guy once said: "Choose wisely my friend."

Re: IRV2

Reply #32 – June 27, 2015, 12:24:25 am

Here is another thread with a mismatched subject.

When I finally got around to reading it, I discovered it to be very interesting (albeit duplication of previous discussions) but having VERY LITTLE to do with "IRV2"

Re: IRV2

Reply #33 – June 27, 2015, 10:38:34 am

in 5 years, there will be so few 10yr old foretravels on the road, the option to buy one won't be there. Also, they are all very tall, many bells and whistles to break, etc.

in 10 years, a 10yr old ft will probably be impossible to purchase.

Re: IRV2

Reply #34 – June 27, 2015, 10:57:02 am

My 2001 might be more desireable 10 yrs from now with all the upgrades that have been so lovingly modernized if one wants a solid coach ?
Maybe a IRV2 reader will read between the lines of B-S. ?

Re: IRV2

Reply #35 – June 27, 2015, 11:23:12 am

I had renewed my membership and weeks later found out about the new fee just imposed. I would have payed it, had I been made aware then at the time of the renewal.

Skip forward from Jan. to last week. Chasing an AC problem, I needed to know the freon load, as the tech was sucking down the system. Into the books I went. I found lots of capacities listed on one page, but not the one for freon. I called a couple of numbers at FOT, and had to leave messages. First returned call one told me, 4.5#, and to have a nice day. 20 minutes later, the next phone call is to inform me, since I did not pay the extra $25, she could not take my request forward, and/or give me an answer. She wanted me to call Beverly, pay my extra $25, and have her notify someone, so I could get my answer.

Turns out the AC problem was from a loose connection, caused perhaps 2 weeks earlier by a service tech working on the fuel solenoid shut off bracket problem.

The answer should have been in the book, or maybe it is located somewhere on the coach.

We had also looked at a newer coaches 3 days before at FOT and MOT, and were happy to drive away in our older Foretravel.

In all my years in business, I have always felt that client phone calls for information and help were just part of the service I could provide. Even today, since we took by choice an early work stoppage to deal with health issues and travel as much as we can between Dr. appointments, those callers get the help I can offer.

Maybe FOT needs the 6000 owners to pay $25, and use the $150,000 to help stay in business for us.

Re: IRV2

Reply #36 – June 27, 2015, 11:56:08 am

I paid the $25 extra. It got me two emails returned by James T within 24 hrs. Quick, usually good help is available right here.

MOT has a great customer service model but how many coaches sold by them have had an issue that needed help within a few weeks. Several. Lots of times it is a new owner, sometimes something unanticipated breaks, sometimes it might have beem something that could have been checked before it went out the door. They are good but not perfect but seem to be customer centered and always trying to get better.

Like Dave M's my coach is almost 15 years old. Stuff breaks, stuff wears out and old electronic parts fail. If you don't want to fix a 15 year old coach, buy a ten year newer one like a 2010. Then you will have problems there too, maybe different ones, probably more complicated ones, probably more expensive to fix. Motorcoaches are high maintenance machines. Take care of them they seem to go for a long time. A little neglect has sharp teeth.

The business model and customer service model at FOT needs some work. Try to help improve it rather than just complain. That won't change anything.

Roger

Re: IRV2

Reply #37 – June 27, 2015, 01:40:20 pm

Quote from: krush – June 26, 2015, 10:05:19 pm

10-20 units a year (regardless of margins) is not enough to keep a company alive. They leaving the road faster and faster each year.

How many units a year does Newell produce? I understand they produced 24 coaches per year (for five years) until last year increasing it to 26 coaches per year. They may be up to 30 coaches per year in 2015. It's certainly possible to sustain (and thrive with) a low-volume business if it's done correctly.

Re: IRV2

Reply #38 – June 27, 2015, 01:42:52 pm

Quote from: Roger and Susan (aka Home2) – June 27, 2015, 11:56:08 am

The business model and customer service model at FOT needs some work. Try to help improve it rather than just complain.

How does one help?

Re: IRV2

Reply #39 – June 27, 2015, 03:07:48 pm

Personally, I advocate new ownership buy the brand and do what could be done. There is a diamond in the rough there.

Re: IRV2

Reply #40 – June 27, 2015, 06:54:13 pm

"How does one help improve things at FOT?"

Unless you want to buy FOT then it is what it is. I have had a couple not so good experiences there but they have been reasonably resolved by working where the problem originated and up the chain of command. Advocate for a positive solution. Bring passion but not anger to the table. Mistakes happen and I would like to believe they aren't done maliciously.

No matter where you have work done be sure the scope of the work is understood and agreed to. Be sure your expectations are stated clearly and understood. When a solution is proposed be sure you understand what it entails and what it will cost. As Dave M says, speak plain English.

Go talk to the people in the office, seek them out. Tell them what you would like to see happen at Foretravel, what you hope they can improve, what your hopes for service and support are for older coaches and tell them what you think they can do to make coaches now that we will and want to buy in the resale market in the future.

And don't abandon FOT. They need our business. We want them to survive and flourish. Xtreme, Bernd and MOT are great resources too. They all offer services we can and should use. We want them all to survive and flourish as well.

We own some of the best motorcoaches ever built. They are ours and our responsibility to maintain, restore, embelish and enjoy. Part of why we can do this is because the factory and the service and support community in NAC and this forum exists. Just like we do for each other on this forum, lets all help each other in this wider community to thrive.

Thanks to all of you in this forum for the help, support, friendship and kindness we have received. I'm doing my best to return the favor.

Roger

Re: IRV2

Reply #41 – June 27, 2015, 07:00:32 pm

Well said Roger. And I'm not likely to buy Foretravel so I will stick to that good counsel. But, if the right buyer/investors came along....

Re: IRV2

Reply #42 – June 27, 2015, 07:31:16 pm

Lots of us with nowhere near enough money have run that idea through the bass-o-matic to only end up with something unpalatable. Lets hope for the lottery. Right now we are riding in the good life. Home2

Roger

Re: IRV2

Reply #43 – June 27, 2015, 09:18:19 pm

Quote from: Lucky1 – June 27, 2015, 03:07:48 pm

Personally, I advocate new ownership buy the brand and do what could be done. There is a diamond in the rough there.

I predict a take-over by Thor, Fleetwood, Forest River or the like within 48 months.

Re: IRV2

Reply #44 – June 27, 2015, 10:18:05 pm

I've wondered occasionally if foretravel went public and began selling stock, how many ft owners would be interested in being stockholders. I believe I would. Just food for thought.

Re: IRV2

Reply #45 – June 27, 2015, 10:20:30 pm

I don't see how purchase by Thor or Fleetwood expands their product line or ability. I also don't see Berkshire Hathaway (Forest River) buying Foretravel. While Foretravel doesn't mass produce coaches, they do produce one of the best coaches around. I think the President change last June has yet to show what the future may hold.

Re: IRV2

Reply #46 – June 28, 2015, 08:05:04 am

The minute Thor, Fleetwood or any of those purchases FT is the day I will NEVER buy a era FT that they make. As a newer FT owner and previously having trailers from those manufacturers for 15 years the difference is night and day to say the least. Kinda like comparing a USSR era car with a Newer BMW...As many other have said "WE" are their best advertising and "WE" are the repeat customers so the factory needs to pay attention to the "WE" with better customer service. Me personally I have had great service and follow up with FOT. Both with my tire blow out damage last year and getting info on NOS items for my older coach.

IMHO....my 1989 and others of my vintage may be their best advertising toward those that are able to buy a new IH-45....look how long they last...still a quality product!!

As for the premium...well I didn't buy it (newbie) and I look at the Motorcade as a great way to share the social side of our great coaches while getting to meet nice new people in the process.

Re: IRV2

Reply #47 – June 28, 2015, 09:12:05 am

Well, I have posted my experiences with FT over the years on here in the past. I will say that I wonder what will become of the company since Dane Miller's passing. He was the major investor. They closed down he motorsports business and I think that FT just has to make it with what it has. The idea of the Realm is a good one but the price point is still way too high for what it is and only one place selling it is also an issue. Time will tell though.

Re: IRV2

Reply #48 – June 28, 2015, 09:47:31 am

Frankly, I don't see any new strategies for growing the top line. Seems to be lacking strategic thinking as well as customer care focus.

When you come to think of these two items, these are not that difficult to overcome if management is on the ball.

Re: IRV2

Reply #49 – June 28, 2015, 12:17:19 pm

The GrandVention is in October in Indiana. We are planning on attending. Perhaps all who are attending or just interested should send an email or a letter to the President of Foretravel suggesting a Q&A session regarding these issues ... the future of FT, customer service, customer relations, service, parts, what are legacy coach owners going to buy in the next 5-10 years, how to make our community more interactive, more communicative and more satisfied. Say what you think in plain English. Ask your questions. Ask for a reply. Be respectful.

I will.

Send to:

Lyle Reed
President
Foretravel Motorcoach
1221 NW Stallings Dr.
Nacogdoches, TX 75964

1-800-955-6226
lyle.reed@foretravel.com

Maybe someone has an email address for Mr Reed that they could add.

Roger

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