steering gear box

Topic: steering gear box (Read 1296 times) previous topic - next topic

steering gear box

July 27, 2015, 08:02:24 pm

I have read through the posts regarding steering gear boxes and am looking into the red head box program. I am away from the coach so I can't crawl under it and check. Was there any other Sheppard boxes used in 99 U270 36' units than the M100PDP1?
Thanks in advance for the help.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #1 – July 27, 2015, 08:08:51 pm

Re: steering gear box

Reply #2 – July 27, 2015, 08:10:17 pm

They rebuild your box, no exchange.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #3 – July 28, 2015, 06:08:09 pm

Thanks for the info, Lon. I checked out redhead boxes today, and you are right about the no exchange (at least on this model). Now the question arises, is the redhead box that much better than having a local DFW rebuilder just go through it? Has anyone out there had experience with both? The logistics of having to send the box off, have it rebuilt (although amazingly quick) and returned throws another wrinkle into the equation.

Thoughts or inputs?

Re: steering gear box

Reply #4 – July 28, 2015, 06:59:27 pm

The delta is will you find a local firm that will BLUEPRINT, or just rebuild. Big difference.!

Blueprinting is the only way to really take all the play out of a Sheppard box.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #5 – July 28, 2015, 07:05:49 pm

Gotcha, Brett,
So I might move from 3" of free play in the steering wheel to 3/4"? I had seen a post about the Howard steering stabilizer and had read about that. Could it be that the Howard centering mechanism was an answer to what was an original box with too much play, or were they really tight right from the factory? Just curious.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #6 – July 28, 2015, 09:09:52 pm

Brett, I have been seeing that Blueprinting is better and assume it will be set with minimum tolerances, but why is call blueprinting and what is done to control tolerances? Does it take experience, tools, gauges, etc?. Any place to read about it? Google did not answer it for me. Barry

Re: steering gear box

Reply #7 – July 28, 2015, 10:12:41 pm

Barry,

No first hand knowledge of RedHead or of the process they use to blueprint the boxes. Long ways from S Texas to Washington state where they are. If we ever get up that way, will certainly make a point of going by.

My PRESUMPTION is that they use ball bearings of different sizes to take the slop out of the boxes.

I do know that Hendersons, Precision Alignment, etc do use them and highly recommend them for tightening up steering systems with Sheppard boxes.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #8 – July 28, 2015, 10:38:14 pm

I used to have 3" of free pal in my steering until Bernd worked on the bus a couple of weeks back - now it is maybe 1/2" - I thought it would need the steering box rebuilt at 109,000, but in my case it was a two steering arms that were replaced. $750 late and down the road in good shape.

Moral - if you have not been diagnosed, it may not be steering box

Re: steering gear box

Reply #9 – July 28, 2015, 11:05:17 pm

Thanks for that reply, Tim. Had the coach in at FOT to check on a seep in the box. I was told it was not just seals but the box needed to be rebuilt, so I am looking at different options on how to go about this.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #10 – July 28, 2015, 11:59:06 pm

@enspeiser, I'll be at Redhead the end of August to have my Sheppard rebuilt. I have about 1/4" to 3/8" of play and that's too much for me.

Probably too late to be of any help to you but I will share my experience here when done.

see ya
ken

Re: steering gear box

Reply #11 – July 29, 2015, 03:33:44 am

Quote from: lenspeiser – July 28, 2015, 06:08:09 pm

Thanks for the info, Lon. I checked out redhead boxes today, and you are right about the no exchange (at least on this model). Now the question arises, is the redhead box that much better than having a local DFW rebuilder just go through it? Has anyone out there had experience with both? The logistics of having to send the box off, have it rebuilt (although amazingly quick) and returned throws another wrinkle into the equation.

Thoughts or inputs?

I chose to send RedHead the box because I could NOT trust a good local rebuilder.
IT'S WAY TOO MUCH WORK to R&R and take a chance on poor performance. If I had a local shop that had good recommendations I would might go there.
RedHead received the box, rebuilt it, and shipped it back the same day. I paid about $100 to ship it to them in Seattle from Chicago via FedEx. RedHead charged me about $40 to ship it back to me. If I was doing it again I would ask them for a shipping label at there shipping cost when I sent it in. As I remember the total cost including shipping it back was about $500.
To me it was WELL worth the S&H logistics to send it to them. They are also FANTASTIC to deal with.
Besides, Who can resist a REDHEAD!

Re: steering gear box

Reply #12 – July 29, 2015, 06:02:19 am

More good feedback! Lon, did you pull the unit and install it yourself or hire it out? If you hired it out, do you remember how many hours of labor were involved? How do you determine whether the limit adjustments were correct, or did you do those yourself?

I can tell you that the redhead is looking quite alluring so far!

Len

Re: steering gear box

Reply #13 – July 29, 2015, 06:22:09 am

Yes, min is not leaking, but I had really annoying play - I suspect at some point mine will leak, and at that time I will go for the "blueprinted" version. Was happy Bernd could solve most of my "dead spot" so inexpensively.

Tim

Re: steering gear box

Reply #14 – July 29, 2015, 10:05:45 am

It cost me about $1000 for a rebuilt box from Shepard and $910 for the removal and installation five years ago.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #15 – July 29, 2015, 10:31:05 am

My figures were in line with Amos'. It's a bear of a job.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #16 – July 29, 2015, 10:43:15 am

Bernd replaced our very leaky steering box last November with a factory rebuild. I didn't realize how much play I had until it was gone. It is a bear of a job- glad I had good people do it.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #17 – July 29, 2015, 02:10:58 pm

Thanks Brett,

Very interesting that using larger ball bearings could reduce slop.
Where does the word Blueprint come front? Why does 'Blueprint' mean closer tolerances? Barry

Re: steering gear box

Reply #18 – July 29, 2015, 02:29:55 pm

Quote from: Barry & Cindy – July 29, 2015, 02:10:58 pm

Thanks Brett,

Very interesting that using larger ball bearings could reduce slop.
Where does the word Blueprint come front? Why does 'Blueprint' mean closer tolerances? Barry

Again, have not observed the process, but achieving exactly the proper clearance between gears would remove slop.

Am sure someone will google and get the right answer, but it is a term that has been used for many decades to signify a machine brought much closer to design tolerances than the wide range acceptable for "normal" production.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #19 – July 30, 2015, 03:32:30 am

Quote from: lenspeiser – July 29, 2015, 06:02:19 am

More good feedback! Lon, did you pull the unit and install it yourself or hire it out? If you hired it out, do you remember how many hours of labor were involved? How do you determine whether the limit adjustments were correct, or did you do those yourself?

I can tell you that the redhead is looking quite alluring so far!

Len

I did the replacement myself.
It was not easy. It is HEAVY work, but I found it do-able. I would not hesitate to do it again (would have a long drinking binge and huge pity party before hand though). I'm 62 with 2 bad shoulders but was always able to find a way to out muscle the gear box. I did need Cheryl's assistance when I had to bolt the box back to the frame. Her judicious use of a pry bar in positioning the box while I started the bolts was appreciated as was turning the steering wheel while I re-installed the pitman arm. Other than that its a one man show.
Let me know if I can help.
RUDY gave me valuable advice BEFORE I started. His words of wisdom made the job happen. He had suggested a re-builder in TX that he had good success with.
If you decide to do it yourself I'm available to help you any way I can. I have tools I will lend you that will be needed. Some you will have to buy, but the cost will be FAR less than the labor and the box costs.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #20 – July 30, 2015, 06:55:22 am

Lon,
We must be twin brothers from separate mothers! I do appreciate all of the input and advice. I have a while to work through this as we are not full timers yet. One thing that I have seen from posts with pictures of the process is removal of the headlight housing. Is this for access behind the headlight or for access THROUGH the headlight opening? My coach had the headlight conversion done before we got it, so I don't know if that will make it even harder.

I am glad that you gave your project supervisor proper credit for the timely and precision application of mechanical advantage. I find myself not thanking mine enough. After all, while I am merely the pilot of the coach, she is the nagivator.

I will be visiting with you soon.
Len

Re: steering gear box

Reply #21 – July 30, 2015, 07:42:45 am

I keep reading posts talking about having Bernd do this or that. Who is Bernd and where is he? From what I have read he is a pretty talented guy. Is he at FOT?
Thanks

Re: steering gear box

Reply #22 – July 30, 2015, 08:10:38 am

Bernd Ramspeck
Nacogdoches TX

Mobile phone 936 707-1584 - he responds quickly to texts

Independent shop in Nacogdoches that does Chassis and engine work on Foretravels and OTR equipment. Dabbles in German cars as well

Re: steering gear box

Reply #23 – July 30, 2015, 08:33:59 am

Even FOT calls Bernd when they can not get a new motorhome to start.

Re: steering gear box

Reply #24 – July 30, 2015, 09:00:33 am

Bernd needs to get a web page. People on the Forum keep recommending him, but all they can provide is a phone number...occasionally a street address. If you Google him, there are practically no hits. A talented web page designer could really help him get his name out there.

Or perhaps his shop is already so busy, from "word of mouth", that he doesn't need any publicity?

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