No power & found algae in primary filter

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No power & found algae in primary filter

August 15, 2015, 02:09:42 pm

We were on our way to a reunion. The engine didn't have much power. At our destination I changed the primary filter and found some algae. I added some Seafoam. On the way to a CG within 15 miles of home I felt power decreasing again. At the CG I removed & checked the primary filter--no algae-- so I changed the secondary filter only.
On the way home from the CG power would come & go, with clouds of blue smoke when I held the pedal to the floor. Sometimes the engine would take off and get me up to 70 but then lose power again.
I had deliberately let the tank get down to about 30 gallons on the way home, based on our average mileage.(tank is 100 gallons)
I do plan on lowering the fuel tank and doing a thorough cleaning and possibly replacing the sender unit and cleaning the fuel pickup screen & pump.
Any ideas? I really need advice.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #1 – August 15, 2015, 02:19:02 pm

sounds like its probably sucking water with fuel. Or the filter is so badly clogged that its affecting timing causing smoke. Your best bet is to drain the filters into a clear container and see what they contain. Hopefully just fuel! But i doubt it. Algae doesnt normally show up in clean fuel.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #2 – August 15, 2015, 02:53:56 pm

If you have water in the fuel, you would very quickly see in by looking (clear bowl primary filter) or draining a small amount (all metal primary filter).

Not familiar with Seafoam as a biocide. Common biocide is Biobor JF: Biobor JF 16 oz. Fuel Microbiocide | Academy

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #3 – August 15, 2015, 06:05:52 pm

We have used a $10 drill pump to suck fluids from bottom of fuel tan into a clear glass jar. Letting the jar full of diesel sit undisturbed for several days will show you any water, bio & diesel in layers.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #4 – August 15, 2015, 06:27:38 pm

Yes, with the Unihomes and Unicoaches where you can get directly to the fuel tank, checking for water is EASY.

Use the jacks/air levelers/boards to tilt the coach so the fill is directly over the lowest part of the tank. So, if the fill is in the back right side of the tank, have the right rear the lowest part of the coach. Let it sit for at least a couple of hours. Water WILL migrate to that point-- it is heavier than diesel.

Use a coat hanger straightened out/piece of all thread/ long wood dowel, etc a little longer than the depth of the fuel tank and zip tie a clear plastic hose (5' of 1/2" ID works fine). Stick that down in the right rear corner of the tank and suck out a sample. Sure, you can use a pump. But, in an emergency, I have just sucked on it until the fluid level was near me (not too near!), pull the hose out of the tank and decant into a glass jar. Repeat until all you get is clean clear diesel.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #5 – August 15, 2015, 06:29:50 pm

An ORED has a center mounted hard to get to tank.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #6 – August 15, 2015, 06:31:26 pm

Yup, that is why I specifically mentioned the Unihomes and Unicoaches.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #7 – August 15, 2015, 06:47:22 pm

Just an FYI
Although this probably won't help nitehawk it may help someone else out.
Before we draw a sample we use this product. It works well on tanks like are on a Unihome and Unicoach where you can get to the bottom of the tank through the fill neck. It can be found on line at several sites.

http://www.petrochemsuppliesgs.com/paste.html

Pamela & Mike

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #8 – August 15, 2015, 07:00:10 pm

That looks EASY! I like easy...

Don

Quote from: Pamela & Mike – August 15, 2015, 06:47:22 pm

Just an FYI
Although this probably won't help nitehawk it may help someone else out.
Before we draw a sample we use this product. It works well on tanks like are on a Unihome and Unicoach where you can get to the bottom of the tank through the fill neck. It can be found on line at several sites.

http://www.petrochemsuppliesgs.com/paste.html

Pamela & Mike

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #9 – August 15, 2015, 07:32:13 pm

Don,

It works as well and quick as is shown on there You tube video. Not a gimmick.

Pamela & Mike

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #10 – August 15, 2015, 07:40:11 pm

Used case's of color cut in the oilfields so if you find a supply store they can fix you up.
Jetjack

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #11 – August 15, 2015, 07:43:59 pm

On most of the ored's there is a drain plug in the bottom of the tank, you can loosen and then very slowly let some fuel by the threads of the plug into a container to see if there is water in the fuel, much easier than dropping the tank. I would add a biocide like Brett says and then carry several extra primary and secondary fuel filters to change when they plug up, that is what I did on our ored and that fixed it

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #12 – August 15, 2015, 08:11:26 pm

Change both primary and secondary filters plus generator filters if it has been run since filling with the contaminated diesel. Have several spare filters on board.

Use an additive to kill remaining algae.

If it does not clear up after another filter change, go to the next step.

Like others and Brett posted, use the HWH to configure the coach so the low spot in the tank is directly below the filler. With a small hose with a large nut (to weigh it down) and a hose clamp so it can't slip off, let it go to the bottom of the tank and suck up any water/algae with a oil change pump.

Keep inspecting the clear end of the primary filter to check for water and algae.

The combination of warm weather and water with give the algae opportunity to grow in the interface between the diesel and water.
Have had it happen to our vehicles as well as customer cars many times. Usually, no big deal with a couple of filter changes getting rid of it plus strong additive to kill it off.

Once the filters are clean, the smoke will go away with no harm done.

Good idea to cut away the housing with a hacksaw on the secondary to check if algae and water got into it. Primary is usually about 30 microns and the secondary 10 microns with a finer filter on high pressure common rail injection systems.

Pierce

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #13 – August 15, 2015, 08:56:37 pm

Have used Kolor Kut many many years on tuna and tug boats. Always works!

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #14 – August 16, 2015, 09:44:41 am

Thanks, everyone. Our driveway is graded such that the front end is up on ramps, putting it 5" off the asphalt driveway, so I have sufficient clearance to lower the tank and slide it out from under the coach.
A friend just gave me a white, food grade 55 gallon plastic drum so I can empty the tank.
There is a drain plug right under the center of the tank and the coach is sitting perfectly level, according to a torpedo level placed on the kitchen counter, just to the right of the sink. Also, the entrance door, the bathroom door, and the two closet doors stay put wherever I place them in an open position, so the coach is level.
I have a propane generator so no need to change a diesel filter on it.
The fuel tank is located between the frame rails, behind the front axle, and has a "LONG" almost horizontal hose & pipe filler neck that starts directly below the driver's window and then enters the fuel tank below the frame rail and midpoint near the bottom of the tank.
The tank is setting on a angle steel frame suspended between the frame rails on four threaded rods that are double nutted to hold the steel frame in place.
After it cools off a bit (yesterday & today 90 degrees & very humid) I will try getting some liquid by loosening the bottom drain plug so it drips--ONLY!!
I intend to use the 55 gallon drum so I want it perfectly clean & dry, so that will take a couple of days to prepare.
I am going to drop the tank so I can check the sender(doesn't work), pump, pickup screen(might be plugged or rotted), and the condition of the hoses(might be time to replace due to cracking/age), seeing as how the coach is almost 27 years old. Nice thing: I do NOT see any rust anywhere!! This coach is exceptionally clean underneath. Probably due to always being away from winters and road salt.
Will post results after I "GIT "ER DONE"

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #15 – August 16, 2015, 08:05:57 pm

Nitehawk...I had a similar issue this past spring with power. My fuel was below an 1/8 tank (stupid on my part, just being lazy) every time I hit a small grade I would lose power and blow smoke as well. I was on my way to the RV Detailer so I just stopped and but 20 gallons in and called my mechanic. He recommended the filer changes that I knew to do and to add one 100 gallon treatment of anti-gel and one of frozen line 911 treatment. I apologize I don't remember the brand.

I changed the filters, added both treatments and filled the tank. I have had no issues since then.

Good luck on your project and please post photos of you can. I've been thinking about those hoses and screens as well on my similar coach

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #16 – August 22, 2015, 04:42:54 pm

Just a little update on my stumbling, blue smoking engine.
I drained a gallon of what looks like diesel fuel out the bottom of the tank. The coach is sitting perfectly level according to my torpedo level (on the kitchen counter and other places) and then used my 3/8" Allen wrench to loosen the drain plug. I let a gallon of fuel run out by dripping. By the way, the drain is in a lower recess on the bottom, middle of the steel tank.
I will probably draw the fuel out of the tank on Monday, weather permitting. I made a redneck strainer so I can stop any "stuff" larger than window screen holes from going into the barrel. It is a clean 20# rectangular cat litter pail with the outlet end of the drill pump exiting into a hole in the fixed lid part of the pail, with a 1.5" dia aluminum pipe with screen hose clamped on the end inside the pail. The other end goes down thru the bung hole in the 55 gallon white plastic barrel.
The fill opening is up just below the driver's side window and the elbow screwed into the lower driver's side of the tank is about 8' away from the fill opening. This with a number of twists and turns, screw clamps and rubber hose (for flexibility) and steel pipe. This does make for a somewhat difficult course to traverse when inserting a hose.
I intend to let the liquid I have drained out the bottom of the tank set a few days to see if there is any separation of water and fuel.
I did start the coach and let it idle for about 20 minutes. I then gradually increased RPM's and the engine seemed to smooth out.
Strangely enough, for some unknown reason the alternator (according to the dash gauge) is putting out over 13 volts wheras before it only read 11.5 volts. The monitoring system confirms that the alternator is maintaining 13.7 volts.
Oil pressure (cold) is 75 PSI (startup). Hot (at 180 D) reads 50 PSI at 1500 RPM. 25 PSI at idle. Coach and engine have 79212 miles on the odometer.
I still intend to drop the tank & check things, but will wait for settling results with the liquid.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #17 – August 22, 2015, 04:48:23 pm

If there is water in your diesel sample, it will settle out very quickly-- even an hour is more than enough time. The only real issue is whether you drew the sample from the very lowest part of the tank-- that is where the water would be.

Any particles or black slime?

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #18 – August 22, 2015, 04:51:21 pm

Lowest part is where the drain plug is. Hard to see any chunks, but the liquid in the pan was pretty black.
When I changed the primary filter over a week ago it had black, wet algae pieces on top of the filter holes. They looked the same as the ones that stopped us on our Winter Texan trip two years ago.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #19 – August 22, 2015, 05:18:59 pm

With the presence of the "black slime"/algae, you really need to use a kill dose of Biocide and then rig a separate fine filter to remove the dead algae bodies.

This happens with diesel boat fuel all the time. There are guys who do "fuel polishing" for a living. Large capacity pump, large capacity filters (usually a 10 followed by a 5) and recirculate it to the tank. When the filters quit plugging up, you are finished.

I don't thinks a course strainer/screen will do you much good in removing the algae.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #20 – August 22, 2015, 07:49:23 pm

Thanks Brett. Now I have to go searching for Biocide and someone with the capability to filter/clean our tank. I think there is, at the most, about 20 gallons left in the tank. Should I remove the fuel, then try adding biocide--it would be far more concentrated that way.
I do intend to pump out as much as possible, then should I just refill with clean, new fuel? Obviously, after replacing the primary & secondary filters (Napa #3121 & #3122).
The tank is roughly 70" long, 24" wide, & 15" deep, suspended between the frame rails on an welded frame of angle iron with a threaded rod on each corner.
Midpoint on the bottom of the tank, centrally located is a stamped steel drain basin. About 6" wide x 10" long x 3" deep, with an allen pipe plug on the lower driver's side of the basin. Unfortunately, the plug is NOT on the lowest place of the tank. The plug, being about 1" above the bottom of the basin.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #21 – August 22, 2015, 07:52:45 pm

The bottle of biocide will give you the concentration. They usually have "kill dose" and "maintenance dose".

You will use the kill dose.

If you can't find or do not want to do the fuel polishing yourself, see if you can find a place to dispose of the remaining bad diesel. That is another option.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #22 – August 23, 2015, 02:12:08 am

Brett, do you think the tank walls will retain algae? Or will the algae go out with the outgoing fuel/water? I do have a place to dispose of the bad fuel morally and legally right.
Do I add the biocide before drawing out the fuel or draw out the fuel first and then add the biocide?

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #23 – August 23, 2015, 02:26:36 am

Add biocide, drive around to slosh/mix and to draw biocide into fuel system. Then drain and flush tank. Dont worry about polishing if 20 gallons remain, just drain it and dispose or use as fire starter.

Refill tank with fresh fuel and another dose of biocide. Change filters and drive around. Keep a set or two of spare filters in case they plug up with any remaining slime.

I ise Biobor JF at work in our big tanks (275-50,000 gallons). Using a bit too much wont hurt anything. Too little may not kill.

Re: No power & found algae in primary filter

Reply #24 – August 23, 2015, 07:01:11 am

Nitehawk, FYI I had the same problem when we bought our Wanderlodge. It had set a few years before we got it. The first long trip we took was Virginia to Alabama. I changed the Racor filter and the engine filters several times before it would run right. Used the "kill" concentration of a biocide every time we fueled. I use a biocide all the time now.

TOM

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