Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Topic: Wheel Studs Won't Torque (Read 1232 times) previous topic - next topic

Wheel Studs Won't Torque

August 19, 2015, 08:47:09 pm

Today hasn't been our day (see our other post about electrical system). This post, however, is about wheel studs. But if anyone has answers to THIS one before Thursday 8/19/15, 7:30 a.m. Eastern Time, it will help me negotiate my way through the morning.

Purchased two new Michelin steer tires today. All went well until they were putting the torquing the 10 nuts on the wheel studs. Four wouldn't torque. The stud just rotated. They pulled the wheel off again and examined the studs. The four that wouldn't torque had noticeable gaps (1/16"+?) between the flare or flange that sits against the wheel assembly. When they took a mallet and a wood block and drove them back, assuming they could tighten a nut on the back, the back (interior) end of the stud seems to be fixed. Serrated, maybe, to grab the back of the wheel assembly?

The question: from the documentation for the coach, it appears to be a Rockwell axle. This is a Michelin heavy truck tire dealer. Should they be able to replace the studs in the morning, or is something about this unique to Foretravel? (They were surprised to see front air disc brakes.)

Thanks for any help! I think I've over-asked my quota of questions of the Forum recently, but Susan & I are extremely grateful for how gracious all of you have been, who know so much more about these wonderful coaches.

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #1 – August 19, 2015, 09:11:23 pm

They should have no trouble replacing your studs. They were likely over-torqued in the past. All studs at that wheel should be replaced. How long have you owned the coach? I'd worry about other wheels manhandled by that guy with a big air gun and no torque wrench.

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #2 – August 19, 2015, 09:24:16 pm

Hmmmmmm

I have a 2000 U-320. Three of the studs on the left front wheel will no longer torque, likely by abuse from last tire changer (blow out, service call, 6 new Michelins).

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Mine are on the left front. They are a special Rockwell/Meritor stud - not sure if a NAPA can cross reference these numbers - on mine there are small serrations on the stud, but the back side of the stud is actually a nut and washer.

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Seems crazy, but that is how it is on my coach - FOT parts agrees - and they do keep the studs in stock - at $70 EA.!!!

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Rockwell/Meritor Parts numbers FWIW

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Stud - 20X2136

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Nut 1227Z137B

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Washer 1229V1504

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Suspect that since FOT only stocks the stud - the nut and washer may be more generic -

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SO.......FWIW, I hope yours are "simple" press in studs, because if not these are crazy expensive, and extraordinarily difficult to find.

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My solution? The three bad ones on mine were spaced around the wheel - FOT, MOT and the tire store said - bolt on the good ones and drive it where you need to to get it fixed. Of course if all three were next to each other, I am not sure that would be good advice.

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I drove from southern MO to Southern WI this way, and will probably check the torque and drive it back to NAC to get studs fixed when I get Fiberglass fixed.

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BTW, the Fiberglas fender is approx $1,000 from FOT, and is special order (they have to get out mold and lay one up) so I was quoted a three week lead time whenI ordered it.

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BTW 2, Bernds quote for parts and labor to fix my three studs (I sent him pictures) was over $1,000 which I found to be egregious knowing the cost of the studs from FOT. I am not sure where I will get studs fixed, but likely not Bernd if this is his actual quote once he sees the coach in person.

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I for one am hoping that your studs are not these special Meritor ones.

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Let us all know how it works out.

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #3 – August 19, 2015, 10:40:58 pm

Thanks Tim & Brett. Sure hoping that the $1,000-for-three-studs response from Bernd is NOT what I hear in the morning.

Brett, we've only owned the coach since May, so we don't know what may have happened as a result of "the guy with the big air gun." The curb-side wheel studs all torqued perfectly. The street side, no.

We'll let you know how this works out. More tomorrow.

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #4 – August 19, 2015, 11:08:38 pm

Mine were street side too..

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #5 – August 19, 2015, 11:20:09 pm

If they have to pull the hub to press the studs out, make sure they put a new wheel seal on.

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #6 – August 19, 2015, 11:31:50 pm

Stop letting shops or tow trucks tighten your lugs. Learn to DIY. Just not hard to do. Cheap electric impact followed by a bar with a fitting for a torque wrench welded on as recommended by Brett is all you need. Anti seize on threads then less than 300 lbs does it on our U300.

Pierce

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #7 – August 20, 2015, 12:12:26 am

I agree with Pierce to a point as far as doing the tire change yourself. Many cannot do that due to weight or phsyical problems, but, this is not rocket science as mentioned before and any tire shop should be able to replace studs even if they have to order them in. I do not understand why a lot of owners make the treck to Nac to get simple things done and then I get PMs from them saying how much they got screwed for simple things. Last PM was having to pay thousands for mistakes by a shop in Nac that this shop created and owners had to pay the bill! Disgusting, and now I know why I try to do as much as my body will allow. Yes, I know when you are on the road you are sometimes paying extra just to get moving ( we had the same problem last winter) but in the end I had almost a total refund and claimed one of the tows with G Sam and they paid up. I love reading the posts from some members that are Truckers as their feelings are mine too. THIS IS JUST ANOTHER MECHANICAL PIECE OF MACHINERY. The parts are possibly unique but available somewhere.
Boy I wish I was younger and had a shop (besides the pit) and I would be a millionaire just fixing forum members problems. I would of course need help and a good glass man like Rance.
End of rant as they say.
I did not mean to upset anyone with my comments, just that too many people get "sucked in" and in my way of thinking this is NOT the way to conduct a business.
JohnH
maybe this will get me deleted ?? Help Dave M!!!

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #8 – August 20, 2015, 01:16:18 am

It's pretty simple. Have a big fat wallet, or be somewhat mechanical. Otherwise, don't own a complex RV, boat, airplane, etc. It used to be all men tinkered a bit with machines--many of my peers can't even change a tire, let alone change their oil.

Combine that with the fact that there is fewer vocation training and the fact that working for an honest living isn't cool. Now we have a lack of decent mechanics. Lack of good doctors too. Heck, lack of problem solvers in general. But of course the bureaucrats will be there to tell you what NOT to do.

I just use a cordless IR impact gun and some antisieze. Your tire isn't going to fall off lol

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #9 – August 20, 2015, 01:32:03 am

John,

Was thinking of letting the shop or tow do the heavy lifting but doing the actual torque yourself. That way, no one gets hurt. Teach a guy how to use a bulldozer and he clears land. Same with a guy with a big air wrench that thinks they are working a NASCAR race.

Agree about the parts. We just have a coach with big rig/fire truck running gear. Nothing special about it. Truck drivers are pretty savvy about who does the work and how much they get charged. Can you imagine a truck driver moving his rig across the country to get it fixed? A lot of RV owners are F D and H and easily get taken advantage of and don't make a big stink when it happens. Retirees are an easy mark.

Still a lot of money to be honestly earned by doing a proper job and charging fair rates.

Just read Krush's post. Yes, whether a RV, airplane or medical, people with a good knowledge base and call their own shots pay less, many times thousands less.

Taxi drivers in foreign lands can tell when a tourist arrives at his or her airport tired and a little intimidated and then charge accordingly.

Pierce

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #10 – August 20, 2015, 03:50:34 am

Do you have hub centered or Budd piloted hubs/wheels?
My 95 has the Budd centered. The left side is left threaded, My "big deal truck tire shop" broke 4 of my drivers side rear studs and destroyed my alcoa wheel (had to cut it off) when I had new tires installed. The "technician" didn't know the threads were different on the drivers side, until the manager and I went out to see why it was taking sooooo long to install tires. He then informed the "tech" and the other 2 "techs" helping him, that the threads are reversed.
I got the coach out of there and drove 100 miles and had the 4 rear studs replaced
Cost was about $600. They had a hard time finding the correct replacement studs. The replacement studs DID NOT cost any where near what Foretravel wants!

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #11 – August 20, 2015, 08:01:36 am

these parts can be bought on-line here
http://www.pgttruckparts.com/default.asp I just ordered four of each PN - three I need and a fourth for a spare... ItemQty Total Rockwell Washer P/N: 1229V1504 brake parts 4 $9.00 Rockwell Nut P/N: 1227Z1378 brake parts 4 $41.04 Rockwell Stud P/N: 20X2136 brake parts 4 $241.16
Subtotal: *
*$291.20

*Shipping & Handling: *
$36.37
*Tax: *

$0.00 $327.57

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #12 – August 20, 2015, 08:24:14 am

Problem is...... Who will do the bookkeeping ( my DW has had enough of that ) and buy insurance, do collections etc. ?
Oh Well back to the pain meds and the daytime TV. ( that is after I re caulk the shower in the house and see the urologist today )
Gary B

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #13 – August 20, 2015, 09:47:38 am

Those of us with older style wheels have the end of the wheel stud marked with the direction to tighten the nut.

Curbside clockwise (normal direction) have "R" on the end.

Streetside counterclockwise (reversed direction) have "L" on the end.

The problem is many techs think that setting their big air guns on counterclockwise will loosen the streetside wheel nuts. The very high torque setting may destroy the street side wheel stud. One can never count on tech to do the right thing, so we must be informed if we have this type of wheel nut and remind the tech who will be doing the unscrewing (or we end up being screwed).

If wheel stud does not have R or L, it does not have reversed threads on any wheels.

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #14 – August 20, 2015, 10:57:18 am

I bought wheel studs about five years ago at a truck parts house in Lubbock Tx for $4.00 each.
As soon as I said for aluminum Budd type wheels he came up with both left and right studs.
He said these were the ones they use on trucks with those wheels.
Foretravel installed them when they removed a broken stud for me.
JD

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #15 – August 20, 2015, 11:05:26 am

Just curious: Which year did Foretravel change from the stud-located to hub-located wheels?

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #16 – August 20, 2015, 11:41:24 am

Yup only heading to NAC because I want Xtreme to fix body from blow out. Bought studs on last me (trust me hard to find even in Chicago) will have local shop fix studs, save money from Bernd quote for sure.
Mine were fine till the tire guy ran the impact to long on them, read them the riot act, but of course they are "not responsible" insurance will pick up since fine before blow out

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #17 – August 20, 2015, 11:50:55 am

These are not press in studs on my coach. Went to 6 truck supply houses in MO and Chicago, no joy on these studs. If anyone has a $4 part that cross references to these Meritor part numbers, I am all ears. Bernd, FOT and everyone else I spoke to do not have a $4 part.
Trust me, I have no interest in. Paying $65 for a stud. When I get the Meritor part in hand I will take to a couple of great truck part houses in Chicago to get that $4 stud! Then return the $65 ones

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #18 – August 20, 2015, 12:11:37 pm

Gary B and John H — some of the rest of us would keep you in business, well rewarded, if you set up shop! ;-)))

Tim, thanks for the link. Bottom line this a.m., after staying overnight at Snider Tire, one of their mechanics was able to tighten 3 or the 4 problematic studs. There was a lot of talk about splines, etc., but they sent me away with 9 of the 10 tight — although they didn't do a final torque with the large wrench used by the actual tire guys on the curb side wheel. According to the shop manager, who supervised the work, I'm safe to get to TN RV. Sounds like the Southern MO to Southern WI account theory, except that I only have to go 2.5 hours to TN RV on Sunday.

Any concerns, anyone? Should I be good to go?

Finally, just a brief digression from the stud torque thread, just to offer perspective on your thoughts, krush. Maybe this branch on the thread would be good to move to another board. I understand the concept of knowing your equipment. I'm multiengine instrument rated and turbine trained in the Pilatus PC-12 single engine turboprop, which a partner and I operated in a regional fractional aircraft ownership program. But although the pilot in command must understand his aircraft and has the ultimate responsibility for go/no go decisions, sadly (because it means I didn't end up being very mechanical) the certified airframe and powerplant tech (A&P) must to do all the work. I know some pilots who became A&Ps, as well, for exactly the reasons you suggest, but I didn't have the budget. <smile>

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #19 – August 20, 2015, 12:12:47 pm

Tim,

Ditto (no preference to pay high dollars versus low). But it sounds like I should order a stud from your folks — or as TN RV to order prior to my arrival next week? There was a lot of talk this a.m. about "this stud has splines," and "the bolt on the back of the 4th just spins; must be stripped threads," etc. Sound like your studs?

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #20 – August 20, 2015, 12:45:18 pm

Pilatus = toy envy

You are good to go to TN RV

Bet there are nuts and washers on the back of those studs. Call James Holder at Ten RV today and confirm parts in stock or they can acquire locally Instrument/commercial rated in multi, SE, SE Sea, and rotorcraft

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #21 – August 20, 2015, 01:31:47 pm

There is a forum member if I could persuade to chime in on his aviation background would verge on the unbelievable spectrum. Jetjack

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #22 – August 20, 2015, 01:55:08 pm

Here is a line from our maintenance log entry dated 2007:

"Replaced broken left rear wheel stud. Meritor P/N 20X 1873 $34.16"

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #23 – August 20, 2015, 03:14:37 pm

Getting the A&P today is very difficult as the .gov has deemed it necessary to be super credential-ized. I looked into getting it, but it would take an enormous amount of (un-paid) time. Quite a few of us here have airplane cards and instrument tickets.

I'm young enough to do the RV repair biz idea. I won't. Insurance, overhead, etc. It will eat ya alive. Starting a small business in today's world is damn near impossible. The compliance and overhead issues will kill you. Hit a certain employee size, OSHA requirements are overbearing. If I did it, I'd run a mobile business out of a truck. Did that fixing boats to pay for college. Now, just fix bigger things.

Re: Wheel Studs Won't Torque

Reply #24 – August 20, 2015, 04:01:31 pm

Ahhhhh, 2007, a fine vintage!!!

I want to get into the "way back" machine!!

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