New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

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New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

September 14, 2015, 09:21:07 pm

I started looking at Foretravel coaches a few weeks ago and drove one today for the first time.

When applying the brake, the pedal had very little travel and I had to exert more pressure than I anticipated. Of course the brakes then engaged and stopped just fine.

Can you guys with more experience tell me if that was the normal for the brake pedal? Or should it be more like a passenger vehicle?

ie some pedal travel and then engage proportionally to the pressure

Thanks for your comments.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #1 – September 15, 2015, 06:45:34 am

Air brakes feel different then hydraulic brakes. There is a bit of a push but it takes a bit more to get them to fully engage. It feels normal after a bit but the first part of your pressure turns on the retarder and as you increase your pressure you get full retarder assistance too.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #2 – September 15, 2015, 07:14:13 am

The "feel" of an air-brake pedal is significantly different than the brake pedal on a car. The pedal merely controls an air valve which then activates the brakes and so the different "feel" is to be expected. When driving a Foretravel with the transmission retarder engaged the "feel" and subsequent response can be different than it is when the retarder is turned off and air brakes alone are being used.

I think what you've experienced is normal, and I would recommend driving at first with the transmission retarder turned off in order to get the "feel" of the air brakes alone. The brake and retarder activation when driving at slow speeds (such as stop-and-go city driving) can be somewhat jerky at times. Some people prefer to leave the retarder turned off under those conditions and use it only during highway driving.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #3 – September 15, 2015, 08:49:16 am

Stevec22,

Welcome to the Forum. You're among friends, here, and have found the best place to get the straight scoop on Foretravel!

You've heard two answers from the "retarder" owners - here's one from the "other" contingent (we who are unretarded...).

Sounds like the brake "feel" you experienced was perfectly normal. My first drive in our coach, I thought it felt really strange having to push so hard on the brake pedal AND the accelerator pedal. As noted above, you are just opening a valve with your foot. It will never feel like a car, but you will quickly get used to it. Even without a retarder, a Foretravel with air disk brakes can generate some serious stopping power. Of course, every coach is slightly different, and it is even possible you might "test drive" a coach with poorly maintained brakes which underperform. That's why it is good to drive as many coaches as possible, so you will develop a feel for what is 'normal".

Good luck with your search!

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #4 – September 15, 2015, 11:39:18 am

The floor "pedal" is just a valve with a spring dictating the amount of resistance you "feel" when you push the pedal down. I have driven some with a less powerful spring in the valve that allowed the brakes to be locked up without too much pressure. The brakes should begin to operate once the pedal is pushed without a "free play" distance. If they don't, they may need an inspection or adjustment. The disk brakes may take one stop in the morning to achieve full effectiveness. Ours do. With the brakes at operating temperature, you should be able to lockup all six with a maximum pedal effort at normal speeds. Stop sign creep with a firm brake application may be the sign of an idle speed that needs adjusting.

Monitor air pressure just like you would the oil pressure, especially before descending grades. Don't acquire a dependance on the retarder to stop the coach. The service brakes are the primary stopping device with the retarder used to help. Don't expect the parking brake to stop you quickly in an emergency or while parked on a steep incline. It only works on the rear brakes and it's springs are not as effective as air pressure.

View YouTube videos on air brake operation. This knowledge is very important to your safety and everyone else around your coach.

Pierce

Pierce

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #5 – September 15, 2015, 01:03:16 pm

And just to make sure, air brakes are THE way to stop something big. There is a learnig curve but compared to losing all braking from boiling brake fluid, is totally worth it.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #6 – September 15, 2015, 11:31:23 pm

Thanks for the replies.

I drove a different coach today and the brake pedal was much better than the one yesterday..

I am now the proud owner of a beautiful 1998 40' U320, no slides. Well I will be the owner after I transfer the funds to the current owner on Thursday.

I was a bit nervous driving someone else's coach in north Houston traffic.

How long does it take to get "comfortable" driving a coach?

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #7 – September 16, 2015, 02:20:15 am

Hi Steve, greetings from another newbie

Unlike the rest of the responses you have gotten, I do not own a coach (yet)

But I am a heavy equipment mechanic so I am very familiar with air brakes.

What you are feeling in the brake system is called "Brake Lag"

Here is a quick read about how air brake systems work.

How Are Truck Brakes Different From Car Brakes? - HowStuffWorks

If you are serious about getting an air brake equipped vehicle, take the time to take a course and learn the proper way to use the brake system. Air is, in my opinion, far superior to hydraulic brakes on anything over the size of a pick up truck. Once you understand the system and the little bit of maintenance that has to be done, you will love it.

This is just a very basic version of how it works, there is way more to it than that.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #8 – September 16, 2015, 07:34:43 am

I have driven most everywhere in the country including NYC and the GW bridge at rush hour. Houston for all its traffic has narrow roads and construction and is tough to drive in. It took me about 500 mikes to start to get comfortable and a year or two to really understand and drive it in all conditions. Now you can ask me to hit a coke can and I can pick the tire that will hit it. Figure in 5000 miles you will have a good grasp.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #9 – September 16, 2015, 07:43:40 am

Steve, congratulations on your motorhome. Taking the first drive in Houston traffic is like learning tightrope over the grand canyon!
I think the biggest thing about driving a coach is realizing how much room it really takes to haul one down. I say that because almost no one you are "sharing" the road with will respect it. Good luck, and hopefully we will see you on one of these Texas highways soon.

Len & Deb

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #10 – September 16, 2015, 11:09:36 am

Steve,

Couple of tips I always taught the new guys:

Don't move the coach without all four mirrors being in adjustment.

For crowded freeways and big city streets, drive with the left rear tire not more than a foot from the lane separation line. This way, you don't really have to pay attention to the right lane except for cars changing lanes or someone pulling out from a parking spot. This works for narrow 1930 era bridges too. We drive on narrow San Francisco streets all the time with our coach. If a tour or city bus can do it, so can any RV.

Be very careful making right turns at intersections especially if you have a 40 footer. Wait until you are sure you will have rear clearance before starting the turn. If you cheat on turns to the right on roads, stop.

Drive a little slower on boulevards with multiple traffic lights as it takes longer to stop than you might expect. Keep extra following distance.

Buy a GPS with a two mile warning for turns off the freeway. In crowded traffic, it may take two miles to move to the correct lane especially where two freeways merge with your turn not far ahead and you have four lanes to cross to get to it. Operate the turn signal for a few seconds then slowly move over while watching in the mirror. Traffic will almost always let you in.

Don't drive at night until you have plenty of day experience. Fuel early in the day before you get tired and make a mistake getting into a fuel island.

Don't back up unless you have someone at the back and visible in your mirror. They should watch above for limbs, obstructions as well as at ground level. We use radios for backing and communicating from the toad for finding sites in campgrounds. Never back with the toad connected!

Watch YouTube videos on how position your rig on campground roads when you back into campsites.

Pierce

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #11 – September 16, 2015, 11:50:41 am

First, congratulations on your new coach! Hope you like yours as much as we love ours (purchased in May 2015).

We've driven approximately 3,000 miles since purchasing the coach. You'll feel significantly more confident at that point, although I haven't reached that 5,000 mile club that will enable me to say which tire will hit a coke can (I'm looking forward to it John! After GrandVention, maybe). But I have navigated the northeast, including NJ and NY bridges and CT rush hour, as well as the narrow streets of Newport, RI. So, there has a been a little bit of "trial by fire" and we haven't hit anything or anyone.

John's 500 miles minimum just to begin to get comfortable is about right. So, here are three things that have helped me, another new driver of a 40'er. Hope these are helpful. Veteran Foretravel drivers, if I've messed-up anything here, be sure to correct me, for my sake and Steve's.

As Pierce said, hug the lane separation line on your side; the driver's side. That ensures the passenger side/curb side will be OK. Don't worry or look to the right to see if you are clearing the guardrail on a narrow bridge, or whatever. If the driver's side of the coach is where it needs to be, the passenger's/curb side will be, too. One way to be confident you're hugging the lane line is to find a spot on the top of your dashboard or bottom of the windshield that you can align with the lane line. For me, I make sure the two vertical lines on the left side of the dash, the lines that surround the main instrument cluster, are directly in line with the lane line. Your height, seat position, or a different dash may mean you need a different point of reference. You can double-check your reference point by glancing down to the convex (bottom) mirror occasionally, but only when the road is ENTIRELY clear in front of you. You'll barely see the lane separation line running alongside the bottom of your coach. But don't glance down often. The reason for finding a reference point is so that you can always be heads-up, watching traffic; ready to brake.

Remember that you are sitting just above (in fact, slightly in front of) the front axle/wheels. It doesn't feel like a car, where your wheels are in front of you. This means turning is going to feel strange at times — kind of like a pilot in a 747, if you have ever watched them taxi into position on a runway. The pilot and nose of the aircraft go beyond the aircraft centerline before they turn. It won't be nearly that dramatic in your 40'er, but there will be times you'll feel as if you are over the grass or curb on a very tight turn, when the front wheel under you is still safely on the pavement. With good planning (and some luck), of course, you can avoid that type of turn in your first 500 miles.

Realize that the "pivot point" Pierce was talking about, especially when making a right turn but it applies turning both ways, is the rear axle of the coach. If the rear axle doesn't get past whatever you don't want to hit back there — a post, a stop sign, a curb, sewer stub-up or electric pedestal in an RV park — you'll hit it. Find something on the side of your coach that you can see in your mirror, to give you a visual reference for the pivot point on both sides (or put something there with double-sided adhesive or velcro). You'll have a lot more confidence turning.

Just take it slow and easy! Eager to hear how it goes. Best wishes!

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #12 – September 16, 2015, 04:24:23 pm

Little off subject but not entirely.. I was test driving a truck driver and the truck's brake pedal was hinged to the floor verses swings from under the dash.. The driver said this truck has no brakes.. I know better and say let me see how you are mashing the pedal.. The dude is wearing sandles and is trying to mash the pedal at the base with 3 toes... Driver I say, get your foot up on the middle of the pedal and apply with your foot and not your toe...

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #13 – September 16, 2015, 05:47:18 pm

U320 has large cold blooded air disk brakes. If you heat them up quite a bit they stop like a car.

Almost dangerous cold or with corrosion on them. If they cool down leave the retarder on.

Test and you will see.

Verify the low and high air pressure on the gauges. Mine had 85-100. Brakes were not easy. Or strong.

Changed the d2 air controller valve to 110-130 now the brakes are much stronger

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #14 – September 16, 2015, 06:55:22 pm

Hi Steve.

As another -- new ---owner / operator of a beautifull 95 u280. Thought I would chime in. Now with 1500 +'miles under my belt.

Couple of things I struggled with at first were 1, trying to keep her between the lines by looking to close to the coach. That is I wasn't looking far enough ahead of me. That's why driving a 102" coach at night can be a challenge. The headlights only show you a short distance ahead. Some, maybe most coach drivers won't drive at night for that reason I'm guessing. I followed a truck, made it easer. Once I started looking down the road a piece I wasn't fighting the steering wheel as much during the day time.

The other thing that I find myself doing more of is riding the solid right line some. I have had a few trucks pass me that didn't stay in their lane completely and I would like to keep as far away from them as possible.

Of course this is ALL subject to change as I may find out I'm doing it all wrong.

We all wish you safe ForeTRAVELS. It just keeps getting better

Robert

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #15 – September 16, 2015, 07:09:17 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – September 16, 2015, 05:47:18 pm

U320 has large cold blooded air disk brakes. If you heat them up quite a bit they stop like a car.

Almost dangerous cold or with corrosion on them. If they cool down leave the retarder on.

Test and you will see.

Verify the low and high air pressure on the gauges. Mine had 85-100. Brakes were not easy. Or strong.

Changed the d2 air controller valve to 110-130 now the brakes are much stronger

Sounds like you are describing out of adjustment slack adjusters...

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #16 – September 16, 2015, 08:19:08 pm

Thanks again for the additional comments.

We are driving back to Spring,TX tomorrow to pick up the coach. This coach is truly like new on the inside and out. We have looked at a dozen or more in the couple of weeks and this one by far is in the best condition.

In all of my driving history I have tended towards the left stripe, but when we left on our full time test drive 5 months ago pulling a 26' travel trailer I had to relearn and adjust to the right. Now I have to throw all the retraining out and move back to the left. LOL well the coach will be worth it

ps, We will be on our way to the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta in just over a week. The coach will be much more comfortable than the trailer would have been. Anyone going or been there to make recommendations?

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #17 – September 17, 2015, 09:33:20 am

We were there last year. You will love the FT for dry camping there.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #18 – September 17, 2015, 10:52:57 am

Albuquerque has made lots on changes in the last few years. The freeway construction is finally done so getting around is easy now. You are going to the number one attraction but here is a list of the others: 14 Top-Rated Tourist Attractions in Albuquerque | PlanetWare

Santa Fe IS our favorite U.S. city with lots to see and great restaurants. PM for our favorites. Just under an hour away going north on I-25. Every weekend, we would check the newspaper and hit the private galleries as they serve free wine and hors d'ouevres plus you always meet interesting people. Fun to go from one to another.

If you get a chance, Acoma aka Sky City is a great side trip an hour ten away and is the oldest continually-inhabited city in North America. Not that much of a hike to the top of the mesa. Images at: acoma sky city - Google Search

This area is arguably one of the most scenic spots in the world. Stop in at AAA and get the Indian Country map, put it on a wall, throw a dart at it and then visit. You can't go wrong. Love it.

Pierce

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #19 – September 17, 2015, 03:33:01 pm

Congrats and welcome.

I have found when traveling on multi lane highways when being passed by a big semi on the left I drift a foot or so to the right so my right wheels are just touching white line. When I am passing I do the opposite drift a little to the left so our left wheels are just touching the left line. I know that many say that they do not ever feel the effects of the wind when being passed or passing other big vehicles but some time I do. This slight drift 12"/18" seems to lessen the effect as well as give the Big Boy some extra room.

Lazydays did some videos a while back that I found most interesting. Having had my CDL for many years I thought I knew how to handle our equipment but it reminded/reinforced some good stuff. If you haven't seen it might be interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CeThR_A4VI

Good luck and safe travels.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #20 – September 17, 2015, 09:00:25 pm

I felt it in my 36 and 34 foot Foretravesls and moved a bit too but in my 42 foot I do not feel the passing trucks or busses. I do feel a Prevost who is flying by about 75 when I am 62 or 63. I only feel pressure but do not move. That being said, I too will move over a bit to the right as a truck passes and will also hug the left side passing a truck. It also means you have to pay attention to the trucks that overtake you. It sometimes happens that the trailer will come into your lane a bit, especially on the double trailers.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #21 – September 18, 2015, 10:27:02 am

Quote from: John S – September 17, 2015, 09:00:25 pm

It sometimes happens that the trailer will come into your lane a bit, especially on the double trailers.

More than sometimes, in my limited experience. I think some of the truckers like to have a little fun, by seeing if they can make the "amateur" RV driver nervous. Or, perhaps they just have their head up their arse.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #22 – September 18, 2015, 10:26:15 pm

Quote from: Doug Weil – September 16, 2015, 07:09:17 pm

Sounds like you are describing out of adjustment slack adjusters...

Been checked many times. Does not mean it's not out of adjustment although.

Your Meritor brakes run off a 110-125 D2 air pressure controller are not cold blooded?

Love to find something wrong. That's because it could be even better?

And it was already great. Lots of other coaches had/had oversize brakes for much heavier vehicles.

And were cold blooded somewhat.

Mine almost seem to drag at times.

A few hard stops and they work fantastic in a constant use area. Like a car...

Hours of non use and without the retarder on I find I need to be careful. Hand next to the retarder lever and on switch....

Tell me yours works different...

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #23 – September 19, 2015, 06:53:04 am

Mine stop the same cold as they do warm. That is on three coaches and well over 300k miles.

Re: New to Motorhomes and have a question about brake pedal pressure

Reply #24 – September 19, 2015, 11:38:22 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – September 16, 2015, 05:47:18 pm

U320 has large cold blooded air disk brakes. If you heat them up quite a bit they stop like a car.

Almost dangerous cold or with corrosion on them. If they cool down leave the retarder on.

Test and you will see.

Verify the low and high air pressure on the gauges. Mine had 85-100. Brakes were not easy. Or strong.

Changed the d2 air controller valve to 110-130 now the brakes are much stronger

Bob, I don't think you should feel a difference in the foot valve when the tanks air pressure is 100 vs 120.
You will feel a difference in the foot valve with (1.5" vs .05") travel in your slack adjusters though.
You may have glazed over pads from dragging if they are so cold blooded.
I feel little difference in my brakes cold vs hot. My 270 is lighter and has less torque than your 320 expecially if you have your low idle set up a bit...

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