Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Topic: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair (Read 1952 times) previous topic - next topic

Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

October 06, 2015, 01:17:32 pm

I have a 1995 U-300 3176 Cat
Two years ago My hydraulic pump started leaking, the Pump is a John S Barnes Pump model W9A2 1800118 the rebuild kit was 5000101 from Foretravel,
I had it rebuilt in Idaho no problem, But now it's leaking again from the shaft, Two questions,
Should I rebuild it again? Or just Replace it?
Does anybody know of a replacement for this pump besides going to Foretravel? They now have a replacement but it's $949.oo

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #1 – October 06, 2015, 03:29:09 pm

On our coach, the hydraulic pump for the fans was made by Vickers, and I successfully rebuilt it myself. The fan motors were made by John S Barnes. My motors may or may not be related (mechanically) to the pump on your coach. I did extensive research trying to locate rebuild kits for my motors, and had very little success. I finally was referred to a factory in GERMANY, where they said they could produce the required kits, but wanted over $400 (US) each, before shipping! They attributed the high price to extremely low demand for the product. I declined the offer. Our fan motors are still working fine, with just slight seepage at the shaft seals (with 172,000 miles on the coach), so not yet in critical need of service.

I don't think there will be any simple, inexpensive answer to your question. Kenhat, on this forum, posted a LONG thread on his experience with rebuilding (I think) the same basic pump. Search this Forum for his thread. Good luck!

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #2 – October 06, 2015, 05:09:20 pm

We have a leaking hydraulic pump on our 02. COST of fan motor is $3,000..Yup, $3,000. That buys a hell of lot of oil... Have to add a quart every few thousand miles...The cost doesn't include installation. From what I have heard and read this model cannot be rebuilt..

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #3 – October 06, 2015, 05:48:58 pm

Quote from: Modern Day Jipzee – October 06, 2015, 01:17:32 pm

I have a 1995 U-300 3176 Cat
Two years ago My hydraulic pump started leaking, the Pump is a John S Barnes Pump model W9A2 1800118 the rebuild kit was 5000101 from Foretravel,
I had it rebuilt in Idaho no problem, But now it's leaking again from the shaft, Two questions,
Should I rebuild it again? Or just Replace it?
Does anybody know of a replacement for this pump besides going to Foretravel? They now have a replacement but it's $949.oo

I have the identical coach #4719. How many miles did the rebuild last..??

Hans

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #4 – October 06, 2015, 06:45:50 pm

More of my personal experience.....your mileage may vary............

I too, had a Barnes pump. I too, took it in to have the seal replaced. I too, had it start leaking again.........SO........I called Foretravel parts and was told that with the Barnes pump it will start leaking again and it's not worth rebuilding. I bit the bullet and bought a new one from them ($828 delivered as I recall), not a Barnes, and I am sleeping good at night.

This is just one 'o them FWIW diatribes.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #5 – October 06, 2015, 10:18:35 pm

Quote from: jeff – October 06, 2015, 05:09:20 pm

We have a leaking hydraulic pump on our 02. COST of fan motor is $3,000..Yup, $3,000. That buys a hell of lot of oil... Have to add a quart every few thousand miles...The cost doesn't include installation. From what I have heard and read this model cannot be rebuilt..

Jeff, I am not sure if yours is the same as my 2003 but I had mine rebuilt successfully.
Foretravel Hydraulic Pump Rebuild

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #6 – October 07, 2015, 07:38:50 am

Quote from: Hans&Marjet – October 06, 2015, 05:48:58 pm

I have the identical coach #4719. How many miles did the rebuild last..??

Hans

It was repaired April 20th. 2012 It lasted about 30K miles, It's not leaking bad just wet around the pulley.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #7 – October 07, 2015, 01:35:34 pm

FWIW, a "little wet" around a seal is a good thing. If it's dry the seal will not last. pc

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #8 – October 07, 2015, 02:08:43 pm

If you can locate a new or old neoprene seal for your pump, give these guys a try and see if they have a duplicate seal that's made of Viton or something along that line. Gallager Fluid Seals, King of Prussia, Pa., 800-822-4063

BTW, if your "kit" doesn't contain shaft inserts (ie: old style generator armature inserts,)
you will be wasting time rebuilding.
It wouldn't hurt to have access to lathe to make new inserts if you cannot locate any. pc

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #9 – October 07, 2015, 03:43:34 pm

FYI; John S Barnes is owned by CONCENTRIC Pumps.
The (only) source for this kit (in the USA) is through Womack in Dallas/Houston (713-956-6400.)
The kit number 5000101 is $59.20 w/2 wks lead time.

If this is the pump that is fastened with only 2 bolts, I suggest replacing the old fasteners (w/#5 grade) and adding a bracket
to insure the pump is secured, stopping the vibration. (Been there, done that.) pc

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #10 – October 07, 2015, 04:11:53 pm

Quote from: pocketchange – October 07, 2015, 03:43:34 pm

FYI; John S Barnes is owned by CONCENTRIC Pumps.
The (only) source for this kit (in the USA) is through Womack in Dallas/Houston (713-956-6400.)
The kit number 5000101 is $59.20 w/2 wks lead time.

If this is the pump that is fastened with only 2 bolts, I suggest replacing the old fasteners (w/#5 grade) and adding a bracket
to insure the pump is secured, stopping the vibration. (Been there, done that.) pc

Thank You, That 5000101 kit is the one I used in 2012 when I had it rebuilt ,

What do you think about having it rebuilt again? Or do I just bit the bullet and get a new one?
Or option # 3 Let it ride, I'm afraid of it blowing out completely and leaving my onside the road, What do you think?
Thanks Again,
Andrew

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #11 – October 07, 2015, 04:23:24 pm

Andrew,

Yes, pumps can fail slowly or just let go.

The only time our 1993 U240 left us on the side of the road(sold it with 170,000 miles) was when it dropped 2 gallons of fluid from the fan reservoir in less than 3 minutes. Good news-- we were parking in a state park, so not really "on the side of the road". Bad news, it was in Ft Davis, TX, and closest ANYTHING was in Alpine. Oh, and it was December and snowing. Completely replaced system with new from Foretravel with help of hydraulic shop in Alpine who made the new hoses.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #12 – October 07, 2015, 04:26:34 pm

"What do you think about having it rebuilt again? Or do I just bit the bullet and get a new one?"

How well do you want to sleep at night?

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #13 – October 07, 2015, 04:29:14 pm

Suspect here is what I would do:

1. Locate a shop who really knows these pumps.

2. "Reserve" a new pump (ask them to hold it for 2-3 days)

3. Remove the pump and have the shop tear it down to determine if it is worth rebuilding.

THEN make your decision.

This assumes that time is not critical.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #14 – October 07, 2015, 05:59:22 pm

20 ft. lbs. (M11) is called for to secure this pump and they have not been in production for 13(?) years.
With this in mind, I would not throw it away under any situation.

I'm not to speed on how this is secured to the CAT. (pictures..)

Whatever can reduce vibration helps.
Studs instead of the OE bolts helps.
Make a bracket to secure the back of the pump assembly.

Sorry, I'm not going to second guess how to spend your money
or if you should buy a new pump.. pc

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #15 – October 11, 2015, 09:29:52 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – October 07, 2015, 04:29:14 pm

Suspect here is what I would do:

1. Locate a shop who really knows these pumps.

2. "Reserve" a new pump (ask them to hold it for 2-3 days)

3. Remove the pump and have the shop tear it down to determine if it is worth rebuilding.

THEN make your decision.

This assumes that time is not critical.

Thanks to all who chimed in on this subject,
I'm going to bit the bullet and get the new pump from Foretravel, Pump Part #80002642 $903.78
For those interested, when I get the pump I will try to find the source and let y'all know
Thanks Again,
Andrew

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #16 – October 11, 2015, 09:41:49 am

Quote from: Modern Day Jipzee – October 11, 2015, 09:29:52 am

I'm going to bit the bullet and get the new pump from Foretravel,

If you don't plan on keeping the old one to rebuild, please consider offering it/Freecycling it here on the forum. We have some folks who like to "resuscitate" or "scavenge" old parts.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #17 – October 11, 2015, 09:45:08 am

Quote from: Michelle – October 11, 2015, 09:41:49 am

If you don't plan on keeping the old one to rebuild, please consider offering it/Freecycling it here on the forum. We have some folks who like to "resuscitate" or "scavenge" old parts.

I'll keep y'all posted not certain yet,

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #18 – October 11, 2015, 09:58:49 am

Yes, I know somebody with the same year/engine that will take the pump and tried to rebuild it and gather part info.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #19 – October 11, 2015, 10:39:15 am

Has anyone tried using a synthetic oil in the hyd system yet? If you use the same oil weight etc.I don't think it would hurt.

P.S.Modern day synthetic oils do not "leak" out of an engine any faster or slower than dino oil.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #20 – October 11, 2015, 11:09:23 am

John 44.
Like your comment on the synthetic use and I will be doing just that next year as I firmly believe in use of syn' in all cases. This is the only system that does not have it on our coach. It is 3 yrs since I did the filters and oil so have had my monies worth I guess from Delo 15/40
JohnH

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #21 – October 11, 2015, 01:22:11 pm

Quote from: John Haygarth – October 11, 2015, 11:09:23 am

John 44.
Like your comment on the synthetic use and I will be doing just that next year as I firmly believe in use of syn' in all cases. This is the only system that does not have it on our coach. It is 3 yrs since I did the filters and oil so have had my monies worth I guess from Delo 15/40
JohnH

Just for kicks and out of interest, would you please do the sample routine on your hydraulic fluid? pc

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #22 – October 11, 2015, 04:40:36 pm

Just reread all the posts,looks like the one thing in common is that the leak is from the shaft seal.
If someone can get access to a "core" pump try this,check the shaft where the seal rides.
I have seen it done at a machine shop,I forgot the name of the process but you put the shaft in a lathe and spray the worn area
with molten metal to build up that area. Then you simply machine the shaft to specs.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #23 – October 11, 2015, 04:47:58 pm

I believe the process is called "metalizing". I used to work in the maintenance department of a large power company and we routinely used this process to restore large multi-stage process pump shafts. I would have to think that any well equipped machine shop or welding shop would be capable of performing this work.

Re: Hydraulic Pump Replacement or Repair

Reply #24 – October 11, 2015, 07:21:23 pm

Years ago (about 40 yrs ago) spraying metal on a shaft, called Eutektic (I think), anyway it took a good bit of knowledge and experience to get the results you wanted, no idea what is on the market today. seen many large crankshafts welded up and turned back to spec & they seemed to last. Some shops can do, others wonder what it was.

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