Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Topic: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission . (Read 965 times) previous topic - next topic

Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

October 07, 2015, 05:45:57 pm

Had a chit chat with James T . at the mother ship . My question was , at what mileage to you change transmission oil in the Allison 400MH . His reply was 75,000 miles . So off I go to Western Branch Allison , in Richmond Va. . This is a very large servicing facility . I ask the tech there the same question . His reply was if used in harsh conditions , change out at 150,000 miles , if over the road change out 3000,000 miles . What to do ----??? Well , I bought the oil and filters kit . Got home and the stuff sits there on the shop floor . Where does FT get their info on when ? Why the difference from the Allison factory dealership

? Both can't be right . How about it experts ---which is it

Brad Metzger

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #1 – October 07, 2015, 05:50:40 pm

Be aware that the retarder makes it SEVERE DUTY.

Be sure he looked it up as severe duty. Different than 99% of motorhomes.

I would go with James's recommendation.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #2 – October 07, 2015, 07:31:26 pm

Yes , that is my plan . When I spoke to the Allison tech , and mentioned "retarder" I could tell he was not familiar with that equation . So ,I mentioned it again and he said that should not make any difference . I know the heat produced in that oil has to be hard on it . If you think about it , I never heard of a truck having a retarder and being in a business where a large part of that business is trucks and busses , I can see he might not have any experience with retarders . So , 75,000 it is , 49 quarts at $37.89 a gallon is how it cooks out . Brad Metzger

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #3 – October 07, 2015, 07:31:44 pm

It all depends what fluid. If youre using Transynd, its usually double the non transynd interval. for a 4000MH, which is what I think you meant to type. the transynd interval is 50,000 for oil and filters in the severe schedule. For general use, it is 100,000 fluid and 50,000 filters.

If using regular dextron fluid, it is 12k or 24k miles.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #4 – October 07, 2015, 07:48:18 pm

Brad had the same discussion with James. The Allison guidelines do say or at 60 months. I put the question on another forum where they have the Allison guy who was in charge of all the Transynd stuff. His belief is to do a oil analysis and then take action. He said that he ran buses and garbage trucks under severe duty and never changed the fluid and later had them inspected without any deterioration. However like you, with same year coach and the fluid and filters sitting on the floor next to the coach, I will do the change for the last and only time that I own the coach.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #5 – October 07, 2015, 08:19:32 pm

The Allison Transmission service manager at the Allison Service center in the Twin Cities suggested when I changed to TransSynd in my 4060MHR transmission that I change the TransSynd and filters at 12,500 miles to make sure any organic fluids are flushed out and then filters every 12,500 miles and the fluid at 125,000 miles or 48 months.. He definately knew I had a retarder.

Some owners use their retarder 100% of the time, others less often. I do not use mine all the time. This summer with a lot of mountain driving more than normal. I also monitor retarder temps pretty closely. My VMSpc indicator light turns yellow at 235°. It rarely get over that temp. A lower transmission gear does well and keeps the rpms up and cooling better.

Brett, just having a retarder doesn't mean severe duty. Some level of use and conditions must move you into that duty level. Any idea what they are?

A couple hundred bucks for fluid and filters if you are doing it your self or about $400 to let rhe pros do it is a lot cheaper than a transmission rebuild. If you a a strong retarder user then 70,000 miles sounds prudent to me.

Based on my use, Allison's service calculator says fluids at 48 months, and filters at 36 months.

Fluid and Filter Calculator

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #6 – October 07, 2015, 08:23:50 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – October 07, 2015, 08:19:32 pm

Brett, just having a retarder doesn't mean severe duty. Some level of use and conditions must move you into that duty level. Any idea what they are?

Allison defines it as:

Severe Vocation: All Retarders, On/Off Highway, Refuse, Tour Coach, and Transit

General Vocation: All Others

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #7 – October 07, 2015, 08:38:12 pm

I think in reality that if you change over to synthetic from Dextron then after that again n 25k miles you will most probably not have the coach long enough (years or miles driven) to have to worry about a second time, even with retarder!!
My analysis before changing before this trip came back "the oil is new, why change? that was after 4yrs of use from changing to Amsoil. I did it anyway so I will not be bothering. May do the filters though in 2017!!!
JohnH

ps Lovely weather here on Cape Cod right now

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #8 – October 07, 2015, 08:39:24 pm

The 10 gallons of Transynd cost $379.80 , the filters $53.09 total with tax $455.83 Not pocket change . plus on top of that pay some one to do it for you . I do my own service and know something is not over torqued , and each grease fitting actually took grease . Had an experience in Tenn. that cured me on this issue . Now that thing of oil analysis has my wheels spinning . I will do that for the first time before I drain the oil . My curiosity is working on this item . How else are you going to know for sure . Brad Metzger

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #9 – October 07, 2015, 09:10:26 pm

Quote from: Brad Metzger – October 07, 2015, 08:39:24 pm

Now that thing of oil analysis has my wheels spinning . I will do that for the first time before I drain the oil . My curiosity is working on this item .

We did our first transmission fluid (Transynd) analysis this year at the recommendation of Pamela and Mike. Ours was due for a change based on time, not mileage, but either way it was well worth the effort. We used Buy an Engine Oil Analysis Kit Today | Engine Oil Analysis Service which is the retired Allison fluids engineer's business (and he's a member here on the forum, just not very active). They do other fluids besides transmission fluid.

Anyway, for less than $50, part of which is the reusable pump, we found our fluid to be just fine, no change needed for at least another year (we did do a filter change, which is recommended), at which point they recommend you test again.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #10 – October 07, 2015, 09:13:23 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – October 07, 2015, 08:19:32 pm

Brett, just having a retarder doesn't mean severe duty. Some level of use and conditions must move you into that duty level. Any idea what they are?

I have never seen "retarder uses XX amount= severe duty".

Completely understand that the mere presence of a retarder does not mean that it has been used to the extend that even the Transynd has been "abused". But, can't offer any advice on what constitutes regular vs severe duty when equipped with the retarder.

The other extreme-- I was in Skagway, AK when a caravan of Foretravels arrived down the BIG MOUNTAIN. Several transmissions were fried.

I agree with "fluid/filters are cheap, transmissions are not"!

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #11 – October 07, 2015, 09:40:23 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – October 07, 2015, 09:13:23 pm

I agree with "fluid/filters are cheap, transmissions are not"!

Prudent words.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #12 – October 07, 2015, 10:57:42 pm

Thanks Brett, I guess they assume if you have a retarder you will use it in a way that makes service intervals shorter.

Before I switched to TransSynd I did transmission fluid analysis every 6K miles. Always good. So when I get close I will do it again and see what is looks like. Filters on schedule.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #13 – October 07, 2015, 11:19:01 pm

I would think most retarder equipped vehicles would weigh a lot more than a Foretravel.

The weight must factor

1989 a u300 customer mentioned that hill to me.

Thinking of adding an engine brake to my coach. Foretravel did a few I understand.

Hate to go slower when technology exists to fix it.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #14 – October 08, 2015, 12:57:27 am

Quote from: Brad Metzger – October 07, 2015, 05:45:57 pm

..............................Where does FT get their info on when ? Why the difference from the Allison factory dealership ? Both can't be right . How about it experts ---which is it ? ..............................

Brad,
Barry Beam's information is worth reading:

Transynd Fluid change interval

Castrol's Transynd properties

Allison position on fluid and filter changes as well as fluid analysis option to extend change interval

pre vs post 2003 FT's guidance

Foretravel technical bulletin in August of 2002, covering intervals and pre-2003 model year Transynd changeover steps

Barry's summary of the Castrol (Transynd), Allison and Foretravel information serves us much better than some of the other information offered in this thread. Heed Allison's and FT's positions (and Brett's advice) that any retarder service is severe service. Then use the fluid analysis option to mitigate your on-going costs.

BTW - the new (current)Transmission (2) Filter Kit part number is 29548988 (vs. 29540494)

Try as I might, my PO declined to share with me whether he had installed Transynd or not. Thus, I recently changed out my fluid and filters for Transynd.
I have only put on a few miles since the changeover.
I immediately noticed significantly more abrupt/harsh shifts "up" as well as "down". Of course it happens in a more dramatic fashion when the coach is under appreciable acceleration/deceleration and gentle treatment will still "generally" yield gentle shifts. But, all shifts were smooth before, under both gentle and healthy load conditions.
Thus, my questions:

Has anyone else experienced similar changes from smooth to harsh shifting immediately following changeover to transynd?

Does the abruptness decrease with time? What length of time/miles?

If it is to be expected, why does it occur?

Do I need to be visiting Allison before setting off for points south dragging a fully loaded trailer?

Thanks,
Neal

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #15 – October 08, 2015, 01:19:45 am

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – October 08, 2015, 12:57:27 am

Brad,
Barry Beam's information is worth reading:

Transynd Fluid change interval

Castrol's Transynd properties
Allison position on fluid and filter changes as well as fluid analysis option to extend change interval
pre vs post 2003 FT's guidance
Foretravel technical bulletin in August of 2002, covering intervals and pre-2003 model year Transynd changeover steps

Barry's summary of the Castrol (Transynd), Allison and Foretravel information serves us much better than some of the other information offered in this thread. Heed Allison's and FT's positions (and Brett's advice) that any retarder service is severe service. Then use the fluid analysis option to mitigate your on-going costs.

BTW - the new (current)Transmission (2) Filter Kit part number is 29548988 (vs. 29540494)

Try as I might, my PO declined to share with me whether he had installed Transynd or not. Thus, I recently changed out my fluid and filters for Transynd.
I have only put on a few miles since the changeover.
I immediately noticed significantly more abrupt/harsh shifts "up" as well as "down". Of course it happens in a more dramatic fashion when the coach is under appreciable acceleration/deceleration and gentle treatment will still "generally" yield gentle shifts. But, all shifts were smooth before, under both gentle and healthy load conditions.
Thus, my questions:
Has anyone else experienced similar changes from smooth to harsh shifting immediately following changeover to transynd?
Does the abruptness decrease with time? What length of time/miles?
If it is to be expected, why does it occur?
Do I need to be visiting Allison before setting off for points south dragging a fully loaded trailer?
Thanks,
Neal

Without the before comparison as our coaches PO chsnged to transynth just before we took over I have no for sure comparison but my answer is yes.

Thanks for bringing this up.

Interesting.

Anyone else?

Hard to know what's normal

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #16 – October 08, 2015, 05:56:35 am

Neal, I have always had a hard downshift into fourth but that is all. No change pre or post Transsynd.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #17 – October 08, 2015, 06:33:50 am

I didn't notice any change in shifts after my only Transynd change.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #18 – October 08, 2015, 08:31:08 am

none in ours after change over at all, in fact a smoother change, and I changed out Transynd to Amsoil Torque Drive fluid 4 yrs ago.
JohnH

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #19 – October 08, 2015, 09:13:07 am

For what it is worth, just had the Transynd fluid and high capacity filters changed for the second time in 10 years (80k miles) in my little Allison 3000mh. After 2000 miles it does shift smoother in the lower gears.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #20 – October 08, 2015, 09:58:03 am

So, where do you get transmissions in Skagway? Don't need one, just asking.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #21 – October 08, 2015, 10:02:50 am

Neal,

I have noticed some clunky downshifts from 5th to 4th especially on steeper uphill grades under load. Usually earlier in the drive before everything is fully up to temp, not just oil. Less later. More pronounced if cruise control is on. I generally don't use CC in these circumstances.

This may be something that is adjustable. i understand that the transmission tells the engine to back off while it shifts so that it is not shifting under full load. The short power change is something that most driver's won't notice.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #22 – October 11, 2015, 07:41:46 pm

I recently did the filter change and sent a fluid sample to Allison, see attached.
Messy business getting the sample. I'll install a valve next time; a couple of types are available.
Dick
Oops, report coming.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #23 – October 11, 2015, 07:43:10 pm

Fluid analysis.

Re: Oil change in the Alliso 400 MH transmission .

Reply #24 – October 11, 2015, 08:08:48 pm

Was surfing the net , ended up on E-bay . Low and behold ,- there was the Allison filter kit . I bid $ 31.99 as that was the start bid , and was just notified that my bid bought bit . So , I now have an extra filter set ready to go for the next go round . Sort of surprised me as I didn't really give a toot weather I got it or not . May start to check E-bay more often . Brad Metzger

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