Retarder rocker switch

Topic: Retarder rocker switch (Read 1331 times) previous topic - next topic

Retarder rocker switch

October 25, 2015, 11:15:24 am

Having read all the I-5 problem posts my question is,should I eventually get the joystick upgrade or not,my switch seems to be
working fine but I have nothing to compare it with.
From what I gather the joystick would give better control of the positions,any thoughts?

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #1 – October 25, 2015, 11:25:48 am

John,
We had just the switch on our old GV and now this 320 has the Joystick. The Joystick is infinately variable so, I feel a lot better.
Brian.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #2 – October 25, 2015, 11:31:59 am

I really appreciate having the control the joystick provides. I would not want to be without it!

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #3 – October 25, 2015, 12:03:16 pm

Interesting thread! We have the rocker, and it works fine, but the "joystick" sounds interesting. I wonder if the whole console needs to replaced or is the stick an add-on?

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #4 – October 25, 2015, 12:07:47 pm

The Joystick is not an option for the coach in your signature, as it only applies to the Allison transmission retarder... not to Pac-Brakes. I think the confusion is because some of the exhaust and Jake brake coaches had buttons labeled "retarder".
Don

Quote from: mike leary – October 25, 2015, 12:03:16 pm

Interesting thread! We have the rocker, and it works fine, but the "joystick" sounds interesting. I wonder if the whole console needs to replaced or is the stick an add-on?

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #5 – October 25, 2015, 12:31:11 pm

Barry's site had the joystick as a $400 add on you could buy and install,but that price was probably a few years ago.
I think for right now i will wait,if one shows up somehow for sale I'll take a look,can use that $400 for a better radio.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #6 – October 25, 2015, 02:44:00 pm

joystick is nice - two things I use for -

Apply retarder without applying brakes - much smoother slow down and stop -especially in town

Put 1-3 "clicks" of retarder on when going down long steep grades (watch transmission temp closely - choose lower gear and slow down if temp raises near 250 degree limit

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #7 – October 25, 2015, 02:45:37 pm

slight correction -

Joystick is 6 positions - brake actuation I believe is 1/3 or 2/3 or full. So granular yes, infinite - not quite.

But your pint is correct, better control of retarder and independent of brake application

Last I heard joystick was about a half a coach buck to buy ($500) for the part, install super easy I was told

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #8 – October 25, 2015, 03:05:24 pm

Quote from: Tim Fiedler – October 25, 2015, 02:45:37 pm

Last I heard joystick was about a half a coach buck to buy ($500)

Now I know what a coach buck is worth!

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #9 – October 25, 2015, 11:47:26 pm

Quote

I think the confusion is because some of the exhaust and Jake brake coaches had buttons labeled "retarder".

On my Jake brake equipped coach, the rocker is labeled "retarder." I've read that the word retarder is used to describe secondary braking systems to include engine brakes, exhaust brakes and transmission retarders.
jor

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #10 – October 26, 2015, 12:09:56 am

My experience, and recommendations, are about the same as Fiedler's. We added the joy stick immediately after buying our coach. Our joystick was installed in the switch console with little modification.

We travel in New Mexico, Colorado, Wyoming, and Montana every year. We really like the joystick for helping to control our speed during descents. Using appropriate gears and joystick settings on descents allows you to maintains safe speeds without overheating anything. If the transmission temperature gauge climbs above about 200F, I usually use the brakes to slow a bit, pick a lower gear, and select a speed using the fine control of the joystick.

I seldom have much use for the joystick in the "flatlands." I use the service brakes with the retarder coupling enabled for most conditions.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #11 – October 26, 2015, 12:54:11 pm

So now I'm wondering about the automatic function of the joystick retarder. Or is there an automatic function ?
I mean our retarder is the rocker switch model and activated buy the brake switch only.
If I were to change it to the joystick type, would activation now be with the joystick OR automatic also in an emergency situation like the brake pedal type?

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #12 – October 26, 2015, 01:16:37 pm

I thought I read that the first activation of the rocker switch style was when you took you foot off the accelerator pedal.May be
different for different ECU models.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #13 – October 26, 2015, 01:19:44 pm

Quote from: Bob & Sue – October 26, 2015, 12:54:11 pm

So now I'm wondering about the automatic function of the joystick retarder. Or is there an automatic function ?
I mean our retarder is the rocker switch model and activated buy the brake switch only.
If I were to change it to the joystick type, would activation now be with the joystick OR automatic also in an emergency situation like the brake pedal type?

If you mean an Allison transmission retarder then the retarder should be activated either when the joystick is moved rearward or when the service brakes are applied--as long as the retarder rocker switch is turned on. If the rocker switch is turned off then the Allison transmission retarder will not be activated.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #14 – October 26, 2015, 01:22:37 pm

Always automatic with retardation switch on, joystick is a manual override

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #15 – October 26, 2015, 07:18:59 pm

Joy stick out of the zero position, retarder switch on. Throttle on. No retreader. Throttle off retarder comes on.

In my case someone disconnected a relay to stop the retarder from deactivating the cruise.

Cruise turns throttle to zero the retarder comes on to whatever position the joystick is at as long as the retarder switch on.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #16 – October 26, 2015, 08:08:11 pm

Our coach has the Cummins C8.3 engine with Allison MD-3060R. In normal operation, the "Retarder" switch is always on. The joystick remains in the "0" position. When accelerator is released and service brakes are applied, the retarder activates at 1/3, 2/3, or full, depending on how hard the brake pedal is pressed. The retarder disengages in all cases at about 10 mph. The "Retarder" switch lights up while the retarder is engaged.

With the joystick in positions 1-6, the retarder engages when the accelerator goes to "0" or "idle" position, if the speed is above about 10 mph. The retarder will disengage when the accelerator is pressed, or the speed is below about 10 mph.

On our coach, the cruise control and retarder will work together going up hills and down hills. If the joystick is in position 1-6, the retarder will engage when going downhill fast enough that the cruise control allows the accelerator to go to "0" position. When the coach slows enough that the cruise control "presses" the accelerator, the retarder will disengage. I don't recommend this mode of operation, but have demonstrated that the systems work this way.

Our retarder does NOT illuminate the brake lights. I expect that illuminating the brake lights would disengage the cruise control. Some installations illuminate the brake lights when the retarder is engaged.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #17 – October 26, 2015, 08:38:44 pm

Posted by J. D. Stevens - Today at 05:08:11 pm The "Retarder" switch lights up while the retarder is engaged.

J.D. when you turn on your rocker switch, does the rocker light come on, or does it come on only when engaging the joy stick? My retarder is acting up, (well actually not working) the light on my rocker switch comes on when I turn it on and the light goes out as soon as I engage the joy stick and I don't feel any braking as in the past when it was working properly. It also gears down when the retarder is engaged.

I am trying to establish the normal sequence that it should be doing relating to the rocker switch light. I know how the retarder works when all things are working properly. I just don't remember if the light is an important part of the sequence.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #18 – October 26, 2015, 08:41:13 pm

Light is backwards from your explanation

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #19 – October 26, 2015, 10:15:32 pm

I only have a rocker switch on my retarder, no joystick. If I apply even the slightest brake pressure the retarder starts to engage, as evidenced by the transmission temperature climbing. The longer I hold the brake pedal the more braking pressure the retarder applies. I watch the transmission temperature gauge and if it gets too high I release the brake pedal completely, then reapply the brakes again slightly. This causes the retarder to start over again and lets the temperature come back down. I dunno, maybe my setup is weird because it's an early one? It's kinda like electric trailer brakes, the longer you hold the brake pedal the more the electric trailer brakes apply, but if you release the brake pedal and reapply the brakes it starts the cycle over again. So that's probably about the same as what I'd do with a joystick, watch the temperature and release the retarder before it gets too hot... so I'll probably save my $500 to buy more diesel and go beautiful places.

...Also someone on this forum once pointed out to me that the people who have all the worst brake problems are the ones who use their retarder joystick all the time and never use their brakes with the retarder. I haven't been paying attention but that sorta makes sense if it's true.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #20 – October 26, 2015, 10:51:16 pm

hmmm. When the retard light is lit, retard is "armed" and works via brake pedal (1/3. 2/3, 3/3) or joystick (1-6). when light is off, retarder inop

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #21 – October 27, 2015, 06:43:55 am

Tim, that is the way it is set up on ours, too.

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #22 – October 27, 2015, 10:45:00 am

I am not positive, but I *think* ours does not light until it actually starts retarding.

Trent

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #23 – October 27, 2015, 10:51:56 am

Re: Retarder rocker switch

Reply #24 – October 30, 2015, 05:42:47 pm

Quote from: Ronb – October 26, 2015, 08:38:44 pm

Posted by J. D. Stevens - Today at 05:08:11 pm The "Retarder" switch lights up while the retarder is engaged.

J.D. when you turn on your rocker switch, does the rocker light come on, or does it come on only when engaging the joy stick?

Retarder will not operate if the switch is in the "Off" position.

Summary: Light on=retarder is acting to slow the coach; light off=retarder is NOT acting to slow the coach

Light only comes on while the retarder is actually "retarding." Light comes on whether retarder is engaged by brake pedal or joystick. Our retarder will not engage (light will not come on) if the accelerator pedal is not at "zero" position. Also, light goes off and retarder disengages at speeds below about 10 mph.

Affiliate Notice