Block heater question

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Block heater question

November 22, 2015, 08:57:02 pm

How long should I leave the block heater on for it to be effective. Looking at temps in the high 20's.
Any other advice for cold weather starting is appreciated.

Thanks

Re: Block heater question

Reply #1 – November 22, 2015, 09:04:02 pm

Two hours at that temperature will be sufficient to ease starting.

Assume you have some means of keeping the chassis batteries charged.

Turn on boost switch BEFORE turning key to on/start. The more battery amp hours behind the starter, the less the voltage drop and easier it will start.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #2 – November 22, 2015, 09:06:51 pm

I turn mine on 2-3 hours before leaving. If we are leaving early I turn it on when I go to bed. Also as Brett says the boost switch helps a bunch.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #3 – November 22, 2015, 09:33:23 pm

Do these draw a lot of power ? I'll be storing unplugged for the next few weeks. I guess I'll need to run the generator when I turn the block heater on rather than the inverter next time I start it.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #4 – November 22, 2015, 09:40:56 pm

Quote from: goldbehen – November 22, 2015, 09:33:23 pm

Do these draw a lot of power ? I'll be storing unplugged for the next few weeks. I guess I'll need to run the generator when I turn the block heater on rather than the inverter next time I start it.

Yes, most are 1000-1500 watt heaters. I would be surprised if your block heater is wired through the inverter. I would sure not recommend taking down the batteries to power it even if it is wired to run on the inverter. Yes, I know the inverter runs on the house bank, but in really cold weather, it is a good idea to use the boost switch for less voltage drop, AND you are really hard-timing your alternator to start with deeply discharged large battery bank and it will also be powering the INTAKE MANIFOLD HEATER for the first couple of minutes in blow freezing temperatures.

So, yes, start the generator, let it bring the batteries (both banks!) up to full charge and also power the block heater.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #5 – November 22, 2015, 11:29:24 pm

Does your model come with ether start? I would not hesitate to use it. Only works below 50 degrees and has a measured shot.

20 degrees probably does not need it. Extended crank time (60 seconds) used to be ok long ago.

Just a lot of white cold smoke.

More politically correct to pre heat the engine. Not sure about needing number one diesel at 20 degrees but might help.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #6 – November 23, 2015, 08:48:28 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – November 22, 2015, 11:29:24 pm

Does your model come with ether start?

VERY unlikely. Modern diesels use an INTAKE MANIFOLD HEATER to aid in cold starts. Very dangerous to shoot ether into a red hot heater grid! So, check before even considering the use of ether.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #7 – November 23, 2015, 09:06:18 am

Just curious, I have used the aqua hot engine preheat when the engine is cold. I also have an electric switch on the bed platform labeled engine block. I assume it is an electric heating element located somewhere on the engine. Is there any advantage/disadvantage to one over the other, or to use both in unison?

Thanks,
Larry

Re: Block heater question

Reply #8 – November 23, 2015, 09:25:47 am

Great info as usual. I'll return it to storage and disconnect the battery terminal - side. When I'm ready to go in 3 weeks I'll run the generator and the block heater. As far as a different diesel fuel will the northeast switch over or do I need to look for it? Do I need an additive. I plan to go up North over Christmas and who knows what the temps will be up near West Point. Could be in the 50's or in the teens.
Thanks again!

Re: Block heater question

Reply #9 – November 23, 2015, 09:42:50 am

Larry, I will run my Aqua Hot eng preheat sometimes over the electric. Turn it on when we go to bed and when it's time to go the eng is around 100 deg depending on how cold it is outside.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #10 – November 23, 2015, 10:07:51 am

I turned on the engine block heater many times for an easier start. One day I was in the electronis box at the foot of the bed and there was nothing connected to the outlet where the block heater should have been. There is no block heater at all. It was a California coach. Double check, do you actually have one? So overnight with the AquaHot works perfectly well.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #11 – November 23, 2015, 11:38:42 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – November 22, 2015, 09:04:02 pm

The more battery amp hours behind the starter, the less the voltage drop and easier it will start.

Amp-hours? I believe amps are what we want to run a short duration high load device such as a starter.

Having a huge battery bank with a billion amp hours won't do much good if they aren't designed to push out momentary high amounts of current.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #12 – November 23, 2015, 11:46:09 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – November 23, 2015, 08:48:28 am

VERY unlikely. Modern diesels use an INTAKE MANIFOLD HEATER to aid in cold starts. Very dangerous to shoot ether into a red hot heater grid! So, check before even considering the use of ether.

All of the older coaches had that system from Foretravel as was discussed here before. My m11 has it and the nomenclature on the engine shows the port for the system. I understand that his 99 is probably an electronic 8.3 as is my m11 and to increase my personal knowledge base I asked if he had the button on the dash.

If he does and has an electronic diesel also there would be a port on the engine to bypass the grid heater I assume.

We were skiers long ago and at a unintended -30F the ether system got the 3208 going.

if I owned a coach with the system installed by the manufacturer and was in a winter area I would test the system personally just for safety.

Cummins must think it's ok on my m11 so I was wondering if the electronic 8.3 also had the system available.

Versus hours of maybe hard to arrange block heating the ether might be a useable option?

Re: Block heater question

Reply #13 – November 23, 2015, 11:55:36 am

I don't even know if we have a block heater. I do know we fired her up in Flagstaff after a freezing night and got white smoke for a short moment. Is that normal? $:-\$

Re: Block heater question

Reply #14 – November 23, 2015, 01:18:12 pm

Quote from: krush – November 23, 2015, 11:38:42 am

Having a huge battery bank with a billion amp hours won't do much good if they aren't designed to push out momentary high amounts of current.

And conversely, I'd bet that a lot of amps for a couple of seconds aren't gonna do you much good ..... Or will they ?

Re: Block heater question

Reply #15 – November 23, 2015, 01:32:52 pm

I always use my block heater when getting ready to leave in the morning. Even if it's in the 60's at night. If in the 60's I just run it for a couple of hours and if boondocking it gives the gen a good load along with morning necessities. If lower temps I'll turn it on somewhere around 2:00AM, (not boondocking) it warms the bed too. Turn off block heater and all other loads and disconnect elect/gen then start engine. It allows the engine to spin better lessening the stress on the batteries, starter etc.
Good luck,

Re: Block heater question

Reply #16 – November 23, 2015, 01:52:21 pm

Quote from: Rick – November 23, 2015, 01:32:52 pm

I always use my block heater when getting ready to leave in the morning. Even if it's in the 60's at night. If in the 60's I just run it for a couple of hours and if boondocking it gives the gen a good load along with morning necessities. If lower temps I'll turn it on somewhere around 2:00AM, (not boondocking) it warms the bed too. Turn off block heater and all other loads and disconnect elect/gen then start engine. It allows the engine to spin better lessening the stress on the batteries, starter etc.
Good luck,

Sign me up, Scotty. I still don't know if I have one on our old time girl.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #17 – November 23, 2015, 02:19:42 pm

Cummins actually lists the requirements for reserve capacity in their engine manual.

For my mechanical C8.3 in 32F temperature, CCA is 1280 and reserve capacity is 480 minutes. At 0F, CCA is 1800 and reserve capacity is required to be 640 minutes.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #18 – November 23, 2015, 02:33:51 pm

Well it fired right up after the block heater was on for a couple hours. Outside temp was right at freezing. Regarding an ether switch, I don't see one. We'll see how it does after sitting in extended sub freezing temps. So far so good.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #19 – November 23, 2015, 02:54:00 pm

The block heater switch at the foot of the bed in our '89 GV lit up whenever I turned it on. I didn't discover how badly the outlet the block heater plugged into was burned/melted until I replaced the insulation lining the engine compartment. One of the blades was totally gone/melted off!
Apparently corrosion had deteriorated the contacts to the point that it heated up. I strongly recommend, now that the season for their use is here, that those that use their block heaters unplug them and clean all the blades. We were lucky to avoid a fire under the bed! Could have lost the coach to a fire.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #20 – November 23, 2015, 05:19:32 pm

Quote from: mike leary – November 23, 2015, 11:55:36 am

I don't even know if we have a block heater. I do know we fired her up in Flagstaff after a freezing night and got white smoke for a short moment. Is that normal? $:-\$

Yes, you have a block heater. Switch under bed skirt. Block heater plugged into outlet on the front wall of the engine compartment under the bed.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #21 – November 23, 2015, 06:48:13 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – November 23, 2015, 05:19:32 pm

Yes, you have a block heater. Switch under bed skirt. Block heater plugged into outlet on the front wall of the engine compartment under the bed.

Once again, "Popa Brett" bails me out, found the coach battery boost switch, as well as the block heater switch. Another plus was finding the 12v fuse box! I think when the PO was showing me the coach, he did not think a scruffy long hair (white ponytail) and a week old beard could afford the coach and did not want to spend a lot of time on explanations + I had no clue how complicated these coaches are and my head was spinning after an hour! Thanks again, Popa.

Re: Block heater question

Reply #22 – November 23, 2015, 07:00:28 pm

Actually, the marine on/off switch is much more than a battery boost switch.

Yes, it can be use for combining battery banks (for charge or discharge).

ALSO: If OFF with engine running, alternator charges only the chassis battery. A good position if plugged in last night and tonight. Ridiculous to burn diesel to OVER-charge the house bank while driving.

With the switch ON, both battery banks are charged. And, with no diode-based isolator, you are not turning diesel/alternator output into HEAT in the diode-based isolator.

Simple and effective. But not automatic. But how hard is a major decision between OFF and ON???

Re: Block heater question

Reply #23 – November 23, 2015, 09:02:14 pm

This question may be for Brett.

I have a couple of unlabeled switches in our 2007 Nimbus, one of which is by the bed. Have asked the factory about this, but they seem mystified as well. I am not aware that I have a block heater, have always used the Hydro-Hot engine pre-heat. Do the 2007's have a block heater and, if so, should we use that in conjunction with the engine pre-heat?

Thanks for any info,

Don

Re: Block heater question

Reply #24 – November 23, 2015, 09:17:37 pm

If I'm paying for the electricity I use the A-H for engine pre-heating. If I use the block heater, I only use it long enough to bring the engine temperature above 60 degrees. I feel that is responsible energy conservation.

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