coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

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coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

December 03, 2015, 03:59:20 pm

Quote from: bigdog – December 03, 2015, 03:44:36 pm

Didn't mean to do a hijack
The 2 chassis batteries are optima red tops, The 3 house batteries are MK AGM's dated 09 and installed 2010. The first thing upon opening the coach door was to turn the master switch on. No shore power is available. It's hard to tell if the house batteries are swollen or not. I have nothing to compare them to as I'm new to all this.

Mods feel free to move this hijack to another thread. I don't wish to clutter things up to much.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #1 – December 03, 2015, 04:19:31 pm

To test them I unhook all the batteries and charge them up individually. and see which one has a voltage drop.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #2 – December 03, 2015, 04:29:42 pm

Which batteries are low? The Chassis/starting batteries or the House batteries or both sets?

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #3 – December 03, 2015, 04:46:47 pm

With the gen set on, do your charging lights come on?

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #4 – December 03, 2015, 04:51:39 pm

Yup, if you have the monitor panel similar to the one Mike posted (it will NOT be the same, as Mike's is custom for the Truecharge 40+ charger-- a smart charger which automatically charges BOTH battery banks), that will tell you what is happening with the HOUSE battery bank:

Voltage before plugging in/starting generator.

Voltage after plugging in/starting generator.

And amps (charge rate) assuming you have power share set high enough to reach full absorption charge rate.

And, OE, your coach had no provisions for charging the chassis batteries from shore power/generator. Many have added a separate small smart charger or one of the combiner-type devices such as Xantrex Echo charger that charge the chassis battery from house battery when house battery is at or above pre-set voltage.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #5 – December 03, 2015, 04:52:36 pm

Quote from: mike leary – December 03, 2015, 04:46:47 pm

With the gen set on, do your charging lights come on?

On the heart interface status panel it shows AC in and accept. If I press the charge button on the left panel the status changes to AC in and Charge then after 10-15 seconds the charge light goes out and accept comes back on.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #6 – December 03, 2015, 05:00:03 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 03, 2015, 04:51:39 pm

Yup, if you have the monitor panel Mike posted, that will tell you what is happening with the HOUSE battery bank:

Voltage before plugging in/starting generator.

Voltage after plugging in/starting generator.

And amps (charge rate) assuming you have power share set high enough to reach full absorption charge rate.

And, OE, your coach had no provisions for charging the chassis batteries from shore power/generator. Many have added a separate small smart charger or one of the combiner-type devices such as Xantrex Echo charger that charge the chassis battery from house battery when house battery is at or above pre-set voltage.

Brett, My coach has the Xantrex link 2000.
The PO did install an auto switching charger of some sort that is plumbed into the system. I don't have the maintenance files with me (they are in the coach) But I will drive by the coach tonight and get them and post that info. As I recall the panel showed 14.6 volts and 30 amps while the genset was running and was putting out the proper AC voltage. I will be honest in saying that with so little experience with my Coach that perhaps the settings are wrong and I might not even realize it.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #7 – December 03, 2015, 05:03:10 pm

With any smart inverter/charger, proper PROGRAMMING is critical. Go to your inverter/charger's owners manual. It will walk you through the programming:

Battery technology (wet cell, AGM, Gel)
Battery bank size (in amp-hrs @ 12 VDC)
Temperature (unless optional temp sensor installed)

Do NOT ASSUME that is has been properly programmed!

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #8 – December 03, 2015, 05:12:44 pm

I need to get the coach files (in the coach) to verify what batteries were installed in 2010 before I program anything, I know they are MK AGM's but don't know the Amp-Hrs. I'm car less today so can't get any info till the wife gets home from work so I can go to the coach and I also have a photo club meeting tonight. So I will have all the proper info in the morning.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #9 – December 03, 2015, 05:14:27 pm

Check carefully-- most MK batteries are GEL.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #10 – December 03, 2015, 05:17:35 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 03, 2015, 05:14:27 pm

Check carefully-- most MK batteries are GEL.

I have the PO's receipt in the coach maintenance files from when he had them installed. I'll let you know when I know.
Thanks for the assist.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #11 – December 03, 2015, 05:18:11 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 03, 2015, 04:51:39 pm

Yup, if you have the monitor panel similar to the one Mike posted (it will NOT be the same, as Mike's is custom for the Truecharge 40+ charger-- a smart charger which automatically charges BOTH battery banks), that will tell you what is happening with the HOUSE batt And, OE, your coach had no provisions for charging the chassis batteries from shore power/generator. .

Which is why the CAT outlet told me to fire the coach every two weeks to bring up the starter battery. With fresh batteries (expensive) I've had zero problems and don't fire her as suggested by CAT. Thanks for the usual insight, Papa.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #12 – December 03, 2015, 05:24:15 pm

Mike,

The guy who gave you that advice was absolute WRONG-- wrong for your coach and wrong for any diesel.

Do NOT start any diesel unless you can drive it a minimum of 25 highway miles. Anything less than that will just add moisture (a natural byproduct of combustion) to the crankcase. Said another way, it is not possible to get the OIL (not just coolant) up to operating temperature except under a load.

All coach owners should choose some means of charging the chassis battery. Period.

And the Truecharge 40+ in your coach separately charges both battery banks automatically. And the tech could have determined that in 2 minutes with a digital voltmeter by just checking chassis battery voltage, then plugging in shore power or starting the generator and checking it again.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #13 – December 03, 2015, 06:05:54 pm

Check online for the recommended float voltage of both engine and coach batteries by going to the manufacture's web site.

Keep the coach plugged in and check the voltage for the engine batteries after a day.

Purchase a small trickle charger (about $20) and connect it to the coach batteries. Monitor the voltage (digital meter not analog) to make sure it's close to the manufacture's float recommendation.

If you can't plug in, disconnect the ground cables on batteries or install a switch.

Don't start the engine to charge batteries. You can start to move the coach but idling will cause moisture to accumulate in the crankcase. The moisture will combine with products of combustion left over and form acids. The oil has additives to overcome a small amount but not if you idle the engine for prolonged periods. You won't be able to evaporate the moisture unless you put a load on the engine by driving it and not just around the block.

Check battery voltages frequently.

Doing this simple maintenance has kept our batteries in great shape six years down the road. We NEVER use the boost switch.

Pierce

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #14 – December 04, 2015, 01:52:36 am

I got the books from the coach and I did find a receipt for 3 GPL8D LL house batteries (AGM?), But that was in 2003 but the date sticker on top of the batteries in the coach now is A09. I guess this must be the third set of house batteries. How long do they typically last?

The coach has a heart 25 combi charger/inverter. & Link 2000 panel

Also found a ticket for the install of an Xantrex 82-0123-01 echo chassis battery charger 2010.

I will go back to the coach on Friday and try to have a look at the current house batteries to get a definitive answer on whats in there.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #15 – December 04, 2015, 08:51:50 am

FYI my echo charger ruined 3 sets of batteries before I figured out it wasn't charging even though the green indicator was light with no fault indicated. Not a good failure mode.
When I go solar, I will want a diode based charger. For now I trust my chassis batteries to a battery minder 1500, since I am plugged in when in storage

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #16 – December 04, 2015, 08:56:24 am

Yup, good idea to VERIFY that all parts of your charging system are working properly. As they age, any of the components can fail to work properly. It can be an expensive issue, with a failed relay or other component (even loose wire) causing the demise of expensive batteries.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #17 – December 04, 2015, 10:26:07 am

Here is a photo of our digital voltmeters mounted where the Audit CRT was. This is early in the morning after making coffee and using the inverter for big screen TV, latte maker, etc. the night before. Engine battery is at the top. These are controlled by a switch and fed from the old Audit wiring.

They are worth their weight in gold, reading voltage while driving, checking solar output, checking trickle charger, etc, etc. Also good to check voltage against manufacturer's recommended float/maintenance voltage. Even at home, every time I step into the coach, I hit the switch to check voltages.

I think they were about $8/ea delivered from China. Dead accurate when compared to a good handheld digital voltmeter.

Pierce

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #18 – December 04, 2015, 11:12:23 am

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 03, 2015, 05:24:15 pm

the Truecharge 40+ in your coach separately charges both battery banks automatically. And the tech could have determined that in 2 minutes with a digital voltmeter by just checking chassis battery voltage, then plugging in shore power or starting the generator and checking it again.

Just to clear my cloudy head: you're saying our Truecharge 40 DOES or DOES NOT charge the starter battery? Thanks Brett, M

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #19 – December 04, 2015, 12:23:30 pm

Quote from: mike leary – December 04, 2015, 11:12:23 am

Just to clear my cloudy head: you're saying our Truecharge 40 DOES or DOES NOT charge the starter battery? Thanks Brett, M

Mike,

YES it separately charges both house and chassis batteries. If you look at the wires coming out of the Truecharge 40+, you will see TWO positives, one to each bank.

You should have a manual on the charger.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #20 – December 04, 2015, 12:27:51 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 04, 2015, 12:23:30 pm

Mike,

YES it separately charges both house and chassis batteries. If you look at the wires coming out of the Truecharge 40+, you will see TWO positives, one to each bank.

You should have a manual on the charger.

Thanks Papa, I'm home free! Those three binders you provided are daunting, but if it ever rains around here, I'll look it up.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #21 – December 04, 2015, 01:02:19 pm

More info. It had slipped my mind. (I was in big pain with some dental issues when this happened) The last time I went to the coach and ran the genset, I remembered a code on the link panel that read E-4 I looked that up last night and was horrified that it said "bad battery cell" Oh Oh.
Also when I went to get my books last night, I saw that the genset fault light was on. I suppose it failed to start as it was set on auto.

I would imagine that the E-4 code will most likely mean another 2 coach bucks.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #22 – December 04, 2015, 03:07:06 pm

Quote from: car54 – December 04, 2015, 01:23:42 pm

Only if you let it equal two coach bucks. You can easily isolate the batteries, determine which has the bad cell and run with just two until you can afford a replacement or realize you dont need a third or find a used one for next to nothing from someone else replacing a whole set that is still good.

But you seem to enjoy blowing the coach bucks just so you can cry about it later

Agree IF (big IF) you can get along with the amp-hrs stored in the remaining older batteries. Dry camp much and this could easily damage other appliances-- PC boards really get finicky when you provide them with low voltage.

And, the other point is to not consider replacing just the bad battery (mixing new and old). That is an excellent way for a bad cell in one of the old batteries to take out the good battery as well.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #23 – December 04, 2015, 03:24:59 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – December 04, 2015, 03:07:06 pm

And, the other point is to not consider replacing just the bad battery (mixing new and old). That is an excellent way for a bad cell in one of the old batteries to take out the good battery as well.

True, I learned the hard way. It's hard to bite the bullet (especially with tooth problems), but if one battery gets cranky, the rest are sure to follow. Start over with fresh ones. Sure wish you could have shore power and the same kind of charger we have.

Re: Moved from another thread, coach batteries low after only two weeks of sitting

Reply #24 – December 04, 2015, 04:04:07 pm

Brett, Just got back from the coach. The genset wouldn't start, Battery voltage on the link panel shows 10 volts & E10 (panel depowered from low voltage) From the gen trying to fire I would imagine. The coach is stored in a rather tight spot and I was only able to open the battery bay part way and was not able to see any battery info.

My apologies BRETT for having typed in Brent.

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