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Topic: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner (Read 1340 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #20 –
The 20 amp breakers are the thin series (about 1/2" thick) and it looks like the 50 amp main is the thick series. 

Be absolutely sure that all sources (land line, generator and inverter) of 120v power are off before removing and replacing the 50 amp breaker.

When you replace the 50 amp breaker be sure to make sure the screws holding the wires are tight.  It is a good idea a few days later when you not connected to land line or generator or inverter to retighten these screws.

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #21 –
Agree with Turbojack's advice that you need to verify that you are getting power to the line side of your main breaker before you start swapping it out.  Line side is power coming into the breaker from the transfer switch, load side is the power leaving the breaker that energizes the panel bus.  You should be getting 240v hot to hot on the line side when plugged into shore power. 

Since the issue happens on both shore and generator power, I'd be looking at the transfer switch if you determine that there is no power on both legs of the line side of your main breaker.

If you do have power to both line side legs of your main breaker and are still not getting power to both legs of your load side, then indeed the breaker is your culprit.

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #22 –
Quote from: rsihnhold –
Agree with Turbojack's advice that you need to verify that you are getting power to the line side of your main breaker before you start swapping it out. 

If you do have power to both line side legs of your main breaker and are still not getting power to both legs of your load side, then indeed the breaker is your culprit.

Tigratrus' post reads that he did confirm this

Quote from: Tigratrus –
Taking the panel off I tested:
Voltage between the neutral and the black feeding one of the 50 amp master breakers and got 120 volts.
Voltage between the neutral and the red feeding the other of the 50 amp master breakers and got 120 volts.


He didn't meter across the 2 hots to make sure they're 240V (different phases), but he does have 120Vac coming in to the main breaker on both lines L1 and L2 from the transfer switch.

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #23 –
Quote from: Tigratrus –
Ok. Having run through much of Michelle's suggestions (sorry for the duplication about troubleshooting above, working from my phone which makes it awkward) I *think* I've got a handle on the culprit.

First off, we ARE on a new pedestal in a different campground.

All breakers have been cycled.
All the items that are NOT working do indeed appear to be on a single leg of the 50 amp (really two 50 amp circuits in two legs) system.
I did try the generator, still no power on that leg.
Taking the panel off I tested:
Voltage between the neutral and the black feeding one of the 50 amp master breakers and got 120 volts.
Voltage between the neutral and the red feeding the other of the 50 amp master breakers and got 120 volts.
So.
To me that seems to indicate that the bus transfer and the shore power cable and connections are all good. YAY!

My take on it at this point is that the electrical fault from the bad pedestal fried one of the 50 amp master breakers. If that's the case, now I need to find out what kind of breaker system this uses and where I can get a replacement breaker?  This panel is different from the ones I'm used to (Square D). It looks sort of like the master breakers are in some sort of dedicated module, they don't look like they come out of the plastic base the way I'm used to breakers doing.

Anyone know if the master breakers can be replaced individually? Where you can get replacements?

Thanks to all the folks that have chimed in on this... Can't adequately express how helpful it is. :-)

You should be able to measure voltage (120) volts to ground on the two buss bar screws below the breakers to see if you are getting voltage thru breakers  120 volts to ground on red and black  also on the two screws. None on there ,a bad breaker or buss screw loose.
Irwin

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #24 –
Depends on the meter that is used to measure the voltage, but it is easy to have a bad leg and a volt meter will show you having 110v between each hot and neutral (backfeeding). That is why I am saying check both the line (black and red wire)  for 240v and then the lugs (load side) for 240 volts.  If you do not have  240 v on the line side there then problem is somewhere  before there such as transfer switch.

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #25 –
Quote from: turbojack –
Depends on the meter that is used to measure the voltage, but it is easy to have a bad leg and a volt meter will show you having 110v between each hot and neutral (backfeeding). That is why I am saying check both the line (black and red wire)  for 240v

I did not know that - thanks!  That's why I love this forum - I'm constantly learning from y'all  ^.^d

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #26 –
Quote from: Michelle –
I did not know that - thanks!  That's why I love this forum - I'm constantly learning from y'all  ^.^d

Not sure I understand.  Yes, proper RV 50 amp will have 240 VAC between L1 and L2.  But, an "improperly" wired 50 amp with L1 and L2 coming off the same side of the CG breaker panel will still allow everything to operate (assuming no 240 VAC appliances).  The problem is that it can overload the neutral.

What am I missing?

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #27 –
The other thing is if the generator hasn't been swapped to 240 (most of that year are wired for 120v) you will read ~0 volts between the 2 legs when you are on generator power.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #28 –
 Some great information here thank you. The one thing that I still need to figure out is the master breaker itself seems to have some sort of retaining clip on the right-hand side looks like a post that comes through and is held on by some sort of press clip. On the road to the Lowes now so I can't post a picture easily. May do that when we get there to see if anybody has any ideas how to pull this off or if it's simply a case of pulling that ring off and sliding the breaker out the question is whether I can find one with a similar hole for that post to go in assuming that's even how it's held together. Awkward phrasing by voice recognition quirks. ;-)

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #29 –
Ok. Got to Lowes and took panel off again to get a better look. It's just a retaining clip over the end of the master breaker. Looks like I just need to pry it carefully off and remove the metal retaining bracket. :-)

I LOVE it when problems are easy and inexpensive fixes.

Yes. I know that's not often the case, so I feel I must revel in it when it IS. :p

James

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #30 –
James,

There is no need to remove that retaining ring as it will be destroyed. If you take the 2 leads off from the other side the breaker should just unclip from under where the leads were hooked and then it can be slipped out from under the clip you just posted a pic. of. You can just grab the other side and give it a pull and it will un clip.

Pamela& Mike

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #31 –
I am thinking that ring is holding the piece of metal that is keeping the breaker from coming loose.  It looks to me that the breaker is attached to this plate so it can be used as a main breaker for the panel. You can get those star clamps at a ace hardware store, not sure about a lowes.

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #32 –
So now that we're all settled for the evening and I have some time to get back to this topic: Thank you all! :-)

It was in fact one of the paired 50 amp breakers that failed. I ended up prying the retaining ring up with a tiny flathead screwdriver, then snipping it with a pair of wire cutters. Traded out the breakers for the new pair from Lowes (under $9), fired up the genset and everything was back in service! Yay!

As an added bonus we got a duplicate shipment of fruit (Pears, Oranges and Apples) from Harry and Davids because there was a shipping snafu so there were TWO huge boxes of fruit waiting for us at the park office. :-) If anyone is in the Savannah area stop by, we have a little ForeTravel enclave with us and some friends we met during our several month sojourn at FoT. :-)

Merry Christmas!

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #33 –
Quote from: Tigratrus –

It was in fact one of the paired 50 amp breakers that failed. I ended up prying the retaining ring up with a tiny flathead screwdriver, then snipping it with a pair of wire cutters. Traded out the breakers for the new pair from Lowes (under $9), fired up the genset and everything was back in service! Yay!


Thanks for reporting back.  I love when the Forum helps someone diagnose/repair for themselves - learning more about our coaches is the goal.

BTW don't forget to replace that retaining ring if you haven't already (see turbojack's post just a few above this one)  ;)

Re: Partial 110 volt system outage including AquaHot electric burner

Reply #34 –
Quote from: Tigratrus link=msg=220546 date=1450828934 It was in fact one of the paired 50 amp breakers that failed. Merry Christmas! [/quote

Same to you guys! Curious, did you see any sort of burning on the bad breaker indicating a bogus pedestal or a short somewhere?