IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Topic: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price? (Read 1660 times) previous topic - next topic

IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

January 15, 2016, 08:30:39 pm

I am trying to help a Forum member who is unable to connect to the internet and the question is simply.....what are the pros and cons of having independent front suspension in a FT?

I was looking at air bags on a coach with him and found a different configuration than on our coach, only what seemed to be one bag on the front wheel. Asked and found the coach is IFS. That led to the question, is there any reason to think having this is a good feature or it was not until later years that IFS was perfected, does one need to be wary of the front end construction if IFS, we should check this or that about it, is it more prone to wander on the highway, is it worth a premium price to have IFS in an early coach?

I will pass along your replies when he gets a chance to use a cell phone over the next couple of days.

Thanks for you helping this member seeking a first ever FT,

Mike

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #1 – January 15, 2016, 08:43:55 pm

I'm sure you have searched and read some of the many posts on the subject.
Here one that I think answers the question best: Is IFS a better choice for a good journey?

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #2 – January 15, 2016, 11:58:16 pm

I have a 2001 U320 36' with IFS.

I have never driven a Foretravel other than mine, but I love it. I tow a 10,000 pound trailer through the mountains of BC and I feel safe and under control. It only has two airbags in the front and two shocks, but they are a lot larger than those on the back. The turning radius is a lot tighter and helps with getting in and out of the crowded pit spaces.

Is the standard front suspension better, I don't know. But nothing wrong with the IFS on my coach.....at least not yet.

Steve

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #3 – January 16, 2016, 12:53:37 am

Thanks for the info......that report cited by JohnFitz was detailed, seems good though the experience that it is okay too is good to read.

Up to the potential buyer ow he wants to take it, we spent much of the day looking at coaches here in Nac and he had to hit the road to go look at another in another town. Ed got too little sleep, kinda worry about him leaving the house as the sunshine was a dim reminder of the beautiful day in E. Texas and he had a three plus hour drive tonight.

I thought the idea it felt good driving was good for Ed though that he had heard they wander a bit. The Dave M and JohnFitz replies about robustness and less roll would, on the early IFS, probably have me vote for the regular suspension but I would not turn down a coach that has the IFS if it just perfect in all other regards. I know Ed appreciates your responses.....

mike

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #4 – January 16, 2016, 11:50:01 am

I've driven country coaches with IFS and Foretravels. The IFS is IMHO much better but more sensitive to maintenance needs. The non-IFS coaches will probably corner better but do not have as good of a turning radius. I really appreciated a serious turning radius. Makes life much easier. It wasn't even close to a deal killer for me, hence me having a coach without IFS.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #5 – January 16, 2016, 02:30:52 pm

Controlling sway was a real issue on the early Foretravel IFS's. Two inboard air bags vs 4 outboard ones.

And, as mentioned IFS's are much more complex requiring additional maintenance.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #6 – January 16, 2016, 02:46:46 pm

Once I got use to the decreased turning radius, I love our solid front axle. Almost 9 years and she still tracks straight down the road. Even the newer IFS on Foretravels recently had a recall.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #7 – January 16, 2016, 07:59:34 pm

I have an ( new to me) 2001 U320 with IFS @ 95000 miles on the clock. The Dana IFS system Foretravel used is the same one Country Coach used during the same time period.
I never driven a FT with the straight axle but I can tell you the IFS I have is better the Monaco's for the same time period. I just return from a 2600 mile trip MOT for slide repairs and really like the way it handle some of the bad roads I came across.
As to maintance issue I did have the axle check for alignment and it was fine, don't know if the PO had it redone or not. All the parts are original and I have been told by my diesel mechanic they are still available however the front airbags are still on back order.
The only comment I have is that most if not all high end Coach's produce today have IFS system.
IMHO either one will get you where you are going in style.
Steve

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #8 – January 16, 2016, 11:27:11 pm

I have reported regularly to Ed who is still on the road. When i looked at the coach he had in mind, i saw the single air bag and it is inside a bit versus the two air bags on the standard axle. So as it is a 2001 coach, i pay partucular attention to Brett comment.....i counted this as an early FT attempt at the IFS. I think 01 was first year for them to use IFS. I think it still fair that I characterize to Ed.....do not pay a premium to get it on an 01, the coach may lean a bit more, repairs would be more expensive if repair needed, the turning radius is a real plus if important to him for some circumstance and Forum members that have are pleased though it was a small sample. I personally would prefer without just because it is an early model and i do not require sharper turn but i would not turn down a coach i otherwise think perfect.

I think Ed will be able to get back on the internet Sunday night and read what i have been reporting by phone and post for you where he thinks this may lead him! Thank folks....

Mike

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #9 – January 16, 2016, 11:57:43 pm

Any steering wander in the IFS drive? The mentioned country coaches had a bit of steering wander in my driving of a half dozen different early units

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #10 – January 17, 2016, 10:27:46 am

I am able to get on the Internet this morning. Thank you to all for the comments. I was quite surprised to see the IFS on the 2001 i looked at. I did not realize it was even an option. I know the turning radius is an advantage but one of the top reasons I like the FT is the placement of the double airbags and shocks on each axle. With the IFS this is not the case in the front and coupled with the increased maintenance cost it is no longer my top choice although I will continue to think about it because the rest of the coach was very nice.

Mike and Jackie, I want to especially thank you for the lunch discussion on Friday and the phone conversations to go over the pros and cons of the different FTs. Each one is a little bit different.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #11 – January 17, 2016, 11:57:13 am

I think they made less then 10 with IFS in 01 and that was the only year until the Phenix came about.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #12 – January 17, 2016, 12:12:40 pm

Of the few of us that have IFS on the 2001 none have reported having a pro lem with wander, control, handling, maintanand etc. Only those without it seem to have a problem with it. Personally I like it.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #13 – January 17, 2016, 12:47:19 pm

Actually I believe they made around 20 or so in 2001 and it was a $5000 option. Same set-up was used on the Wanderlodge units (when looking for shocks that's what I had to order). I don't notice a lot of lean in the corners, maybe I'm just not going fast enough. As for maintenance, the IFS in my coach needed nothing (yet) other than replacing the shocks at 14 years (one was weeping a little). I do not know what the previous two owners had done to the coach before I bought it and it only has 56,000 miles on it.

So far so good.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #14 – January 17, 2016, 01:29:28 pm

Here's a link to Jeff's experience: 2001 IFS project
Hopefully, he'll log-in with some more feedback.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #15 – January 17, 2016, 06:04:11 pm

I call FOT looking for air bags part numbers and they confirm only 6 units where made that year.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #16 – January 17, 2016, 08:16:24 pm

Later model SOB IFS coaches have gone to active air suspension to counter body roll with good success.

Probably not an issue with lower profile, lighter weight unicoaches and spread rear airbags the SOB's would not have.

The turning radius would have helped me today as I turned into a small roundabout with my toad on.

Had to unhook.

Lots of people are insensitive to what I am asking about. They assume how theirs drives is how they all drive.

Lots of owners here mentioned lots of steering correction needed and a dead spot in the wheel. And having two hour shifts as they were worn out by that time.

Versus I borrow a few IFS unicoaches to drive I hope someone would be able to help my pursuit of Foretravel info.

The six only seems unusual. Why? Was my thought.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #17 – January 17, 2016, 10:21:05 pm

Rocket, I seem to remember that Dave in Parts at Midtown were you bought the coach said to me that they had put in a few coach bucks on front end when they took it in trade. I distinctly remember it as I had done a service check on it at our home and was surprised to see it there for sale. May be worth checking with him or George the owner to get you records up to date. The couple from Peachland that had it last bought a Dutch Star from George.
JohnH

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #18 – January 17, 2016, 11:12:16 pm

Quote

CashFlashBob: The six only seems unusual. Why? Was my thought.

It was a 5k option per sk320. Also an untested option. Seems like it may have been an experiment at customer expense. Not that that was a bad thing. I like that Foretravel was willing to try new (somewhat proven) configurations. In 2001 I don't think I'd want to be the first guy to buy an IFS coach. I'd want the tried and true.

My coach probably has the worst turning radius (40' no tag) of all the Foretravel coaches so the larger cut angle would maybe be a little tempting.

When we had Big Agnes restored at FOT in 2011 spent some time at the paint shop. Watched Biscuit pull a new ih45 out of the paint bay. He cut the wheel hard coming out. From where I was standing it looked like the wheels were at 90º to the coach! It left a pretty vivid memory.

see ya
ken

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #19 – January 21, 2016, 03:59:59 pm

Following up on my post from three years ago: After all the suspension work the 2001 Foretravel still had more wander than I liked. My theory is the king pins (swivel links in the parts books) were sticking/binding slightly so the coach drove like this: Adding correction to bring the rig back to center lane, there was no reaction to a normal (small) steering wheel input but when I added more input the coach would overshoot and I would have to counter correct. It was like driving in a zig-zag fashion so it was not relaxing to drive - no time for sightseeing - just had to watch the road constantly.

One of my prior coaches was a Mountain Aire with ZF ifs on a Freightliner chassis and it drove like a dream. My current ride, a 1997 Safari Sahara 35 footer with one slide, spring suspension with solid axle and a Cat 300, tracks beautifully. Wound up selling the Foretravel partially because of the steering and mostly because it was one of those coaches cursed with excessive repair expenses - just of the opposite of Dave's hot rod. The Safari was a handful in a crosswind until I replaced all of the worn out sway bar (front and rear) bushings. Not quite a Foretravel but now much much better in a crosswind considering it is a 24k GVW rig. The 3126 Cat with 300 hp is pretty peppy too. I sure miss the factory support Foretravel owners enjoy - you guys are so lucky! Monaco has long since forgotten Safari and Beaver coaches made before the SMC aquisition in 2001.

I still read the forum and who knows, might join the Foretravel community again. I seem to have a habit of buying motorhomes and then get bored after I finish fixing them.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #20 – January 21, 2016, 06:19:54 pm

Quote from: 2Escapees – January 21, 2016, 03:59:59 pm

Following up on my post from three years ago: After all the suspension work the 2001 Foretravel still had more wander than I liked. My theory is the king pins (swivel links in the parts books) were sticking/binding slightly so the coach drove like this: Adding correction to bring the rig back to center lane, there was no reaction to a normal (small) steering wheel input but when I added more input the coach would overshoot and I would have to counter correct. It was like driving in a zig-zag fashion so it was not relaxing to drive - no time for sightseeing - just had to watch the road constantly.

Quote from: 2Escapees – January 21, 2016, 03:59:59 pm
Following up on my post from three years ago: After all the suspension work the 2001 Foretravel still had more wander than I liked. My theory is the king pins (swivel links in the parts books) were sticking/binding slightly so the coach drove like this: Adding correction to bring the rig back to center lane, there was no reaction to a normal (small) steering wheel input but when I added more input the coach would overshoot and I would have to counter correct. It was like driving in a zig-zag fashion so it was not relaxing to drive - no time for sightseeing - just had to watch the road constantly.

Your description of how it drove matches my experiences with the IFS country coaches I drove and your thoughts on why may be correct.

Whatever the cause the driving experience you report matches.

Noticed again the day before yesterday coming back from Death Valley that even with some crosswinds I only need to use a slight pressure on the steering wheel for corrections. Basically goes straight.

Sorry your IFS was not relaxing to drive. Very important to me also.

The non IFS's if correct drive beautifully.

Re: IFS in Early Years, Pros/Cons, premium price?

Reply #21 – January 22, 2016, 08:00:02 pm

Several long time owners and former Faretravel employees have encouraged me to avoid early IFS coaches especially 2001 units . Apparently they only made a handful in 2001 with the Dana front ends. This may very well have further hampered those owners from availability of parts and experience with these units.

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