Used FT Pricing Forum Input

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Used FT Pricing Forum Input

February 04, 2016, 11:26:30 am

I have searched extensively (on this site) and have found answers to questions similar to the one I wish to ask concerning on-line value guides (NADA) and asking/selling prices - so I will word my question in a manner not to rehash old discussions.

Understanding that value is in the eye of the beholder (and seller) and that guides are meant to be just that "guides", I have been discussing the purchase of a 2000 U270 with a seller that is asking double the NADA RV Guide average retail price (using online free NADA service having not checked any options and simply moved on to pricing). I am trying to determine if this unit, which appears to meet my wants/needs, is worthwhile traveling (thousands of miles) to investigate.

This is a non-slide unit (which NADA appears to discount greatly).

My question therefore is: assuming unit is in good/great condition (tires, batteries, service, miles, etc.) can one justify paying 200% of NADA average retail price? When I say "justify" I mean from an economic standpoint, assuming this coach will be sold in the future and I will then be dealing with a buyer (perhaps one using NADA to buy the unit at lower price) and have the same issue again, but in reverse!

Thanks to all in advance. Bruce.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #1 – February 04, 2016, 04:48:31 pm

Take a look at used Foretravel asking prices on the Motorhomes of Texas website to see a more realistic value. As has been suggested, forget about what NADA says.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #2 – February 04, 2016, 04:54:03 pm

It has also been my observation that since fuel prices have dropped so dramatically, RV prices have been rising. I bought a '92 U300 in 2010 for $24,000, and I don't think I could buy the same RV today for that price, despite the fact that its 6 years older.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #3 – February 04, 2016, 05:07:34 pm

As you will have found in the discussions your search turned up, NADA is absolutely meaningless wrt used Foretravel pricing (and I thank everyone in advance for not making this yet another discussion about NADA).

Look at what similar units have sold for at MOT, FOT, etc. That will tell you whether the price is realistic or not.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #4 – February 04, 2016, 05:18:01 pm

There is a 2000 U270 at MOT for $53,500.00, that is pending, this should give you a good idea what they a selling for.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #5 – February 04, 2016, 07:01:33 pm

Nada requires adding for every piece of equipement listed. That's the way the lenders are setup. Long list. Add every one.

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Reply #6 – February 04, 2016, 07:15:43 pm

This is not a post about NADA so lets not go there.

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Reply #7 – February 04, 2016, 08:04:20 pm

NADA is only one of several pricing guides to use. For my purposes, they set the low end of the price scale. Check MOT and FOT for more realistic prices, and PPL for some history. I just ran the numbers on my coach, and found that NADA thinks it is worth $14-17,000. That sets the low point for me. If I would want to sell my coach, and someone offered me $10,000 for it I'd completely ignore it. If I wanted to trade it in on a newer coach and was offered those numbers for a trade-in I might consider it. For a private sale I'd probably ask $35,000.

I just checked PPL and they didn't have any Foretravels like ours, so that source wouldn't work for us, but it may work for you.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #8 – February 04, 2016, 10:20:23 pm

As I've said before: whatever your budget is, see what kind of coach you can buy for that money. You'll quickly learn that your dollar goes a LOT farther with a used FT than most other brands. Whatever it's worth to you is the value. If you get stuck on some arbitrary book value, you'll miss out on every good FT on the market.

As for your concerns about resale: if you're very worried about that, I think motor coaches am not be for you.

Just relaying my own experience to you, with respect.

Chris

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #9 – February 04, 2016, 11:07:03 pm

Quote from: ledurb2002 – February 04, 2016, 11:26:30 am

I have been discussing the purchase of a 2000 U270 with a seller that is asking double the NADA RV Guide average retail price (using online free NADA service having not checked any options and simply moved on to pricing).

Bruce,

The statement you made sounds like it came from an optimistic buyer. What you describe does not have hardly anything to do with the value of a sixteen year old Foretravel. Having fairly recently got a loan on my (then) fifteen year old Foretravel, I know how my lending institution used the pricing guide to determine loan value. I honestly do not know which pricing guide they actually used, but it might have been Kelly Blue Book (KBB).

What is relevant is the methodology. They added on to that basic no frills model for EVERYTHING that was listed as a possible add-on that was actually on my Foretravel. That included two A/C's, two furnaces, all of the awnings, all of the equipment that we and Foretravel included as standard equipment. They just went down the list and if it was on my coach, they ticked the box for that item and it was included.

I KNOW that the instructions say NOT to do that, but that is the way my banking institution (in my case a credit union) made their loan to value determinations. You may want to use your number as a buyer. But when you become a seller, you will be happier that they do it the way they actually do in the real world.

If you did your research on Foreforums, I am sure you came across the main problem with Foretravels and the "book value." There is just too small a sample size on which to build a meaningful database. There are many factors to be considered in price. For example, I just had new air bags, shocks, and batteries installed. That was many coach bucks and makes it worth more than one that hasn't had that done. When I put on new tires next year, that will add to the value (while they are relatively new).

Enjoy the hunt, but do not alienate the current owner of what might be the perfect coach for you by trying to throw some arbitrary "book value" in his face.

Hope this helps you understand the process. It's complicated ...

Trent

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #10 – February 05, 2016, 08:08:44 am

Quote from: ledurb2002 – February 04, 2016, 11:26:30 am

Understanding that value is in the eye of the beholder (and seller) and that guides are meant to be just that "guides", I have been discussing the purchase of a 2000 U270 with a seller that is asking double the NADA RV Guide average retail price (using online free NADA service having not checked any options and simply moved on to pricing). I am trying to determine if this unit, which appears to meet my wants/needs, is worthwhile traveling (thousands of miles) to investigate.

1.5 years ago I bought my 1998 34' u270. With options and all the stuff clicked on the page, the NADA guide was approximately half of what I paid. and I paid less than asking prices of similar models of motorhomes of texas, etc. So, I got a decent "deal" (not a steal) but it was still higher than NADA value. However, I wanted a 34' coach, it had nice upgrades, low mileage, and was in great shape. $10,000-20,000 can evaporate quickly if you have to do repairs on a "cheap" rv.

Do a search and plenty of NADA discussions. But if you even are able to get a loan, often the bank will only loan up to NADA value. Low volume items like our foretravel RV's, the NADA value, as far as I can tell, is just a straight-line depreciation from the original MSRP.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #11 – February 05, 2016, 08:19:19 am

2000 u 270 with slide could easily push $100,000 in great condition.
You couldn't purchase half as fine an RV for twice the money in the new RV market.
NADA is almost useless regarding older Foretravels. As mentioned above there is simply to few of them and aside from Country Coach there really isn't any older fiberglass makes that even come close in quality. Newell and Prevost based units are another matter entirely. Look at dealer pricing like MOT then shoot for 80%or so as a good price for comparable unit.
They're worth what someone will pay at the end of the day.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #12 – February 05, 2016, 09:00:07 am

If the one you are looking at is in great shape and has maintenance records then it is more then likely worth the asking price. There is no way I would sell my 07 Phenix for NADA. Also I never thought I would be buying my last last coach when we ordered it but that goes to how superior FT's are built.

Just had a friend sell a 08 Dutch Star because of the constant repairs. He was the original owner and took great care of it. It all starts with the foundation and although the Spartan chassis is good no way it comes close to the FT chassis. Not to mention steel sidewalls/endcaps vs aluminum.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #13 – February 05, 2016, 09:40:14 am

Thank you to all that have replied. I will travel to inspect this coach, based on the replies given!

80% of recent asking price at MOT (if pending) might be my starting point and we will see from there where price goes - that is if the inspection of coach results in positive findings.

I have owned 5 coaches, some high end, and know they are a depreciating asset that one can enjoy along the way. I just want to minimize the depreciation by purchasing smart - while at the same time having a coach that is dependable and comfortable!

Thanks again.

Bruce.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #14 – February 05, 2016, 10:53:25 am

Bruce, just another thought after reading your original post again: you are contemplating traveling to see this one coach, right? My suggestion would be that if you're willing to travel, I'd travel to Nacogdoches where you can see multiple coaches in one trip and get a better idea of asking prices vs. condition, etc. I bet you will gain a lot of knowledge and maybe even come across the right coach for you. At least, you will know better the questions to ask private owners as you evaluate coaches like the U270 you're looking at now.

Of course, I didn't do this - but wish I did!

Chris

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Reply #15 – February 05, 2016, 11:33:19 am

Quote from: bogeygolfer – February 05, 2016, 10:53:25 am

Bruce, just another thought after reading your original post again: you are contemplating traveling to see this one coach, right? My suggestion would be that if you're willing to travel, I'd travel to Nacogdoches where you can see multiple coaches in one trip and get a better idea of asking prices vs. condition, etc. I bet you will gain a lot of knowledge and maybe even come across the right coach for you. At least, you will know better the questions to ask private owners as you evaluate coaches like the U270 you're looking at now.

Of course, I didn't do this - but wish I did!

Chris

This a a great suggestion. I had a wonderful buying experience at MOT.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #16 – February 05, 2016, 11:51:38 am

Also remember asking price is not always the selling price. I bought mine much less than asking price.

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Reply #17 – February 05, 2016, 12:20:59 pm

Quote from: craneman – February 05, 2016, 11:51:38 am

Also remember asking price is not always the selling price. I bought mine much less than asking price.

I tried that ploy during negotiations for our coach (which I'd not seen in person). The PO said he was 'firm' and sent me a pdf listing what he and the earlier PO had done to the coach (including fresh paint & stripes). I'd researched the GV s for six months and knew what "asking" was all over the country. He was asking 10 coach bucks more than average, but the pics and pdf convinced me she was well worth it! A higher price IS worth it, if you've got the POs to talk to and the paperwork to back it up.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #18 – February 05, 2016, 12:21:39 pm

condition, condition, condition, miles and model /year determine most coaches value.

In our case we stepped up money/condition wise as a 97 40' WTBI U320 mid door was not going to drift by again if ever.

$20k into it later still proud to own it. Needs another similar investment in the next ten years.

Dollar a mile. Normal. 50 cents. You did well. 25 cents you stole something.

Intend to drive out the monetary investment. 20k miles so far.

Then the next owners can do this again I assume.

The purchase price is a part of the experience.

You pay for everyone of your pleasures.

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Reply #19 – February 05, 2016, 01:37:00 pm

Quote from: mike leary – February 05, 2016, 12:20:59 pm

I tried that ploy during negotiations for our coach (which I'd not seen in person). The PO said he was 'firm' and sent me a pdf listing what he and the earlier PO had done to the coach (including fresh paint & stripes). I'd researched the GV s for six months and knew what "asking" was all over the country. He was asking 10 coach bucks more than average, but the pics and pdf convinced me she was well worth it! A higher price IS worth it, if you've got the POs to talk to and the paperwork to back it up.

My final offer did not come until after I was done inspecting the coach, Aqua-Hot not working, dash air not working signs of a front roof leak some time in the past etc. This did turn out to be a very good coach but at the time of purchase there were no records of any repairs or maintenance since May of 2005 and we were looking at it in Oct. 2014.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #20 – February 05, 2016, 02:20:04 pm

Quote from: craneman – February 05, 2016, 01:37:00 pm

but at the time of purchase there were no records of any repairs or maintenance since May of 2005 and we were looking at it in Oct. 2014.

We had a member here (good guy) for a while who'd bought a fairly new FT , that broke down, big time, bringing the coach back to WA State. No one could have spotted the problems that happened to them with a cursory inspection, so he's planning on selling the coach in the spring, because he's (and his DW) "gun-shy". I've had many "your day in the barrel" experiences; it's the luck of the draw.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #21 – February 05, 2016, 02:47:54 pm

Bruce- great advice being said here. We bought our 2001 U270 from MOT 8 years ago. It was on consignment and the PO had a number of upgrades done to the coach. Compared to our 2000 Winnebago Adventurer- we thought we died and went to heaven.

Determine how you are going to use the coach- full time, part time, just weekends, etc. Based on that and the condition will help guide you to a fair purchase price for you. A Foretravel in good condition is worth more 16 years old than most others new or nearly new. We plan on living in ours full time at least another 10-15 years. maybe more........... What other coach can hold up 25-30 years and still be a great coach?

Go to MOT and FOT, look at a lot of coaches, get an idea and buy what fits your budget. Then enjoy the journey.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #22 – February 05, 2016, 05:06:30 pm

When we bought ours a few years ago it was at a price that we could not refuse. After 3 years of stewardship and many coach bucks we are still ahead of the price/cost game - I think. Ours sat for two or three years before we bought her so we had numerous failures after we started to use her. Nothing major but small nagging things like a small water leak, inverter/converter failure, slide creep and some other stuff. We would not have purchased her purchased her at "Full Book" because she would have been out of our budget. We knew buying her was a gamble and being ignorant souls we plowed forward with the purchase. I was bitten by the Foretravel bug, had to have one and the one we bought was the only one available with 2 slides, that my DW had to have, that was still 20K over our budget. I retrospect, I would do it again. It was easier for us to come up with a few grand here and there to repair what needed to be repaired/replaced. If we had known how many coach bucks we would have to spend in the coming years, I don't know if we would have bought her anyway.

I don't know if the problems would have been seen during a pre-inspection or not but that is always a good suggestion - pre-purchase inspection by a qualified person. I also think that if a qualified inspector had inspected ours, a list of repairs would have been generated that might have scared us away. I think that generally speaking if you can purchase from an active owner your coach will be in better shape in terms of maintenance, repair and upgrades.

It is very difficult to view machines that are mostly many hundreds of miles away from you and try to determine if they are in acceptable in terms of quality, model and budget. I think that most of us, that own FTs have struggled with the same issues. Some of us are lucky and fall into the "right" coach, while others are quite meticulous and spend years researching before they purchase.

The more you know the better prepared you will be to recognize the "right" one for you. For me, when I saw her rear end with the shop door open I was stuck.

Read lots of threads, both here and other RV related web sites. PM or call as many owners as you can to better understand the brand and it's products.

Just a side note: In the 3+ years, I'm still a newbie, of my association with this forum I know only of one person that has decided that the FT they bought was a mistake. It is very easy to be overwhelmed by our machines, especially when things go wrong, but in my opinion, the Foretravel brand is solid and the folks here on this web site are tops. We could not be living our life without the support of the FoFum crew.

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Reply #23 – February 05, 2016, 05:26:14 pm

We purchased our coach in 2010 for a price considerably over book value and have never regretted it. We have had to replace a number of items but considering the coach was over 20 years old and still had the original refrigerator and air conditioners we expected that we would have to replace them soon but much of the coach was refurbished at FOT in 2009, so paying over book seemed warranted. I would much rather pay more and get more. If a coach has been meticulously cared for and updated it is worth more than an under priced, neglected coach.

I am always more suspicious of a "low mileage", bargain vehicle than a well cared for coach with miles appropriate to it age. Now six years later I know we made a wonderful buy. This coach has been much less trouble than most new ones.

Re: Used FT Pricing Forum Input

Reply #24 – February 05, 2016, 05:41:03 pm

Quote from: mike leary – February 05, 2016, 02:20:04 pm

We had a member here (good guy) for a while who'd bought a fairly new FT , that broke down, big time, bringing the coach back to WA State. No one could have spotted the problems that happened to them with a cursory inspection, so he's planning on selling the coach in the spring, because he's (and his DW) "gun-shy". I've had many "your day in the barrel" experiences; it's the luck of the draw.

Sorry to hear he is throwing in the towel!

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