Working On My Six Pack

Topic: Working On My Six Pack (Read 8588 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #50 – March 04, 2016, 11:47:51 am

@Chuck,

That six pack is so pretty it belongs in the Industrial Design section of the Smithsonian! Nice work.

see ya
ken

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #51 – March 04, 2016, 12:14:49 pm

The 10psi switches on the front manifold only come into play when you level the coach and one side in the front sets down on a hard stop. As soon as the pressure in those air bags goes below 10psi the switch actuates and removes power from the other side dump solenoid to stop that side from continuing down and twisting the coach.
These switches were added by Foretravel.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #52 – March 05, 2016, 08:12:32 am

Final report to close out this thread. Took our coach out for a test run yesterday. The rebuilt "front" 6-pack is performing perfectly, best I can tell. I went through a complete test of all the functions on the HWH panel (up/down on all 4 positions, raise, dump), and everything worked great. Auto-leveling works - travel mode works. Apparently I got it put back together properly!

Only time, and further operational testing, will tell if this rebuild slows down my general "air leakage" problems. However, I did not expect this first project to be the "Magic Bullet". It is only the initial step in eventually going through the whole coach air system. I expect each component replacement/rebuild to make a small incremental improvement, until I finally get everything back to "factory new" air tightness levels.

Next step will be to replace the protection valves, shuttle/check valves, and double check valve on my "front" & "rear" air tanks. That will be the subject of another Topic.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #53 – March 05, 2016, 10:10:13 am

Nice job Chuck!
You just can't beat doing it right! It always pay's off !

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #54 – March 05, 2016, 11:38:16 am

x2 nice job Chuck.
JohnH

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #55 – March 05, 2016, 11:14:08 pm

I ordered 25 also and will order other seals before dismantling. This is a very valuable thread to me, thanks for your time and effort.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #56 – March 06, 2016, 12:03:03 am

My protection valves were leaking because the rubber (maybe neoprene) seal had cracked. I cut a piece of bicycle tube to size and installed it on top of the cracked seal. It raised the protection press from 60 to 70 psi. This pressure can be adjusted with an alan wrench. This has been working for 5 years.
The check valves on the front/rear tanks are very high quality. I dismantled them and cleaned the brass seal with 2000 grit and reassembled. Working fine six months later. I bought new check valves but did not install them.
I managed to get my pressure loss down to 3psi per hour which is half of Foretravel standard (6 psi/hour) and 1/20th of DOT standard. I am not convinced that replacing your check valves is necessary.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #57 – March 06, 2016, 08:22:52 am

Quote from: P. Wyatt Sabourin – March 06, 2016, 12:03:03 am

The check valves on the front/rear tanks are very high quality. I dismantled them and cleaned the brass seal with 2000 grit and reassembled. Working fine six months later. I bought new check valves but did not install them.

...I am not convinced that replacing your check valves is necessary.

Wyatt,
I appreciate your comments. I am all in favor of restoring and reusing a component, where feasible. My old check valves, however, were in very "rough" condition internally. (I already tossed them in the trash bin, or I would add a photo). In my opinion, they were not fit for salvage, so I installed new ones.

I read, in one of the online HWH documents, that the air systems in RVs are not designed to be "zero loss". That is, even when functioning perfectly, they are expected to leak. You have managed, on your coach, to reduce the "leakage" rate to a admirable degree. Proves it is possible...

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #58 – March 06, 2016, 11:30:47 am

I also have taken apart/cleaned etc those valves along with others, but, did replace the check valves on tanks as they are so cheap to do. My pressure loss is around 1.5 to 1.8 lbs/hr and blame some of that on the pnuematic drop down step cylinders. One of these days they are coming apart and get new o rings etc. My biggest loss was the step slide cover cylinder which now is zero due to NC solenoid on it. Another job (for fun more than anything else) is the 6 packs as they must be needing a good cleanup due to install location but they do not leak.
JohnH

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #59 – January 21, 2021, 11:00:52 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 26, 2016, 07:31:53 pm

SIX PACK REBUILD - COMPLETE PARTS LIST

Reminder: Everything I list here pertains to the FRONT six pack manifold on our '93 model coach, with the HWH 600 Series leveling system. It is up to you to verify if these items are the same on your coach. Newer models might differ, but I think the HWH hardware is pretty consistent over the model years.

Chuck this is awesome stuff, thank you for this. Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not the parts are the same on the early 2000 unicoaches?

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #60 – January 21, 2021, 12:12:21 pm

Quote from: Elliott – January 21, 2021, 11:00:52 am

Chuck this is awesome stuff, thank you for this. Has anyone been able to confirm whether or not the parts are the same on the early 2000 unicoaches?

They are the same for a 1997.

As FYI, if you order the re-build kit from Tom, it will include all of the orings needed except for the check valve and associated retainer plug orings. Tom's kit includes orings for the plunger seat, but they are the round type vs the square cut which appears to be the original style.

On Tue, I ordered orings using the part list and supplier in this post. They arrived yesterday. The orings are between .01 to .08 cents each, but they do have a minimum quantity. Shipping will probably cost more than the orings but it is reasonable too.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #61 – January 21, 2021, 07:21:32 pm

I get o rings at a hydraulic repair shop.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #62 – January 21, 2021, 09:05:34 pm

I used the o-rings included in Toms kit, all works good.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #63 – January 21, 2021, 10:45:10 pm

They are the same as I used them on our 2000. They are also the same for Country Coach and any make with hwh 6 packs as far as I am aware
Johnh

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #64 – January 22, 2021, 09:52:59 am

There are solenoid operated air valves made by Deltrol. They are uncommon and the kits Tom sells will not work to rebuild these valves as his documentation clearly states. I bought a complete new HWH six pack manifold assembly on eBay that had these valves. The manifold was slightly different than the one on my coach but I used the Deltrol valves on my front six pack and so far all is good.
These can be identified by their square shaped solenoids.

Steve

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #65 – March 14, 2021, 11:25:03 am

Add two 1/4 pipe to 3/8 hose 90 degree parker quick connectors to your list and you have what you need for the rear hose fittings!

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #66 – March 14, 2021, 01:22:07 pm

I ordered a valve from Foretravel and the part # on the box is RAP 1940. If you google that part # you can buy them for more than half the price.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #67 – March 18, 2021, 07:39:25 pm

Question on rear 85lb pressure Nason switch. Mine is pretty ugly, but I guess I can test it. I assume I can put it online on my compressor hose. Do I apply 12v to it and it will close and then open at 85lb?

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #68 – March 18, 2021, 07:55:47 pm

I applied 12v across the connectors on it and it blew the 7.5 amp fuse. Probably not working

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #69 – March 18, 2021, 08:27:32 pm

Figured it out. Pressure at 85lb opens connection. It was set a little low. Adjusted works awesome

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #70 – September 07, 2021, 11:23:37 pm

Adding some photos and tips to this thread instead of starting a new one, since it's the go-to guide.

This is the rear manifold off my 2001.

It's two 9/16 bolts holding the six pack on. A 3/4 nut holds the solenoids on.

I found a small hooked dentist pick very useful for picking the old o-rings out, seating the smallest o-ring (using backside) and cleaning gunk out of the grooves the rings sit in (again, using the backside of the pick with a fine cloth)

Don't forget to source pneumatic thread sealant before starting the job since it can be hard to source in person. Loctite 545 or similar is what you want. Silicon grease and dielectric grease both too.

I took the solenoids out, it made testing each of them easy. If you do that, make sure you use colored zip ties or similar to mark the plugs so you know which ones go where when reinstalling.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #71 – September 08, 2021, 08:39:29 am

I think it's a good idea to cover the open ends of the air lines while the 6-pack manifold is removed from the coach. I like to use a piece of tinfoil for that purpose. Easy on - easy off.

You want to be sure no bugs or dirt can get into those open lines. One tiny insect carcass in the wrong place could cause all kinds of mysterious leveling system problems.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #72 – September 08, 2021, 10:05:17 am

I changed to the Parker push on connectors. Now some of my hoses are too short, so be careful with this so.ution

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – February 26, 2016, 07:31:53 pm

SIX PACK REBUILD - COMPLETE PARTS LIST

Reminder: Everything I list here pertains to the FRONT six pack manifold on our '93 model coach, with the HWH 600 Series leveling system. It is up to you to verify if these items are the same on your coach. Newer models might differ, but I think the HWH hardware is pretty consistent over the model years.

O-RINGS

All the O-rings I have encountered are standard AS568 sizes. These are readily available online, and possibly from local vendors. Online prices change, sometimes daily. I will link where I purchased my O-rings, but you should shop around for the best current price.

Air Inlet Check Valve (2 in front manifold): AS568-10
-010 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70010] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make...

Air Inlet Check Valve Retaining Plug (2 in front manifold): AS568-13
-013 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70013] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make...

Between the brass valve and the aluminum manifold (small O-ring): AS568-15
-015 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70015] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make...

Between the brass valve and the aluminum manifold (large O-ring): AS568-28
-028 N70 Buna-N Nitrile 70 O-ring [B70028] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We make...

Brass valve internal seal, under the stainless armature tube (square O-ring): AS568-19
019 Buna-N Square O-rings - Tetraseals [SN70019] : The O-Ring Store LLC, We...

PRESSURE SWITCH

On the front six pack, there are 2 pressure switches, 10 PSI, Normally Closed: Originally made by Honeywell, part # 76578-10 NC
Stewart Warner-Stewart Warner - Hobbs Pressure Switch 10 psi Normally Closed...

AIR CONNECTIONS

Our front manifold was originally fitted with compression-type air connections. With my rebuild, I have elected to change over to more modern Parker Prestomatic "push to fit" air connections. These are now quite common on over-the-road trucks, are fully DOT approved for all air brake systems, and have a max pressure rating of 250 PSI. They are reusable, which will be handy if I ever need to remove this manifold again. You just push in on the tube and the retaining ring, and the tube pulls right out. Push the tube back into the fitting, and it is ready to go again. EASY!

There are six air hose connectors, size 3/8" tube X 1/8" NPT
Parker Male Connector, 3/8 x 1/8 In 68PMT-6-2 | Zoro.com

There is one air hose connector, size 3/8" tube X 1/4" NPT (the air inlet fitting)
Parker Male Connector, 3/8 x 1/4In 68PMT-6-4 | Zoro.com

You will also need one (or two) brass 1/8" NPT male X 1/8" NPT female 45 degree fittings. This is necessary because the mounting holes for the 2 pressure gauges are too close together to screw them straight in. One gauge must be offset to the side slightly. You can buy this fitting online (Amazon or eBay), or at your local NAPA store. I am planning on using 2 of these 45's, one for each gauge. This will allow easier access to the exhaust ports on the manifold, for the purpose of keeping them clean. See photos below:

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #73 – September 08, 2021, 10:29:09 am

Quote from: Ldillow – September 08, 2021, 10:05:17 am

I changed to the Parker push on connectors. Now some of my hoses are too short, so be careful with this solution

Agree - be careful. Measure twice - cut once.

The push-on connectors work best when there is zero sideways strain on the air lines. Make sure you have sufficient slack in the lines before swapping to push-on connectors.

Also, when using push-on connectors, air line ends should be cut off cleanly, with no burrs or deformation of the tubing. See my note (Reply #34) on the Parker tubing cut-off tool.

Re: Working On My Six Pack

Reply #74 – September 08, 2021, 10:42:32 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – September 08, 2021, 08:39:29 am

I think it's a good idea to cover the open ends of the air lines while the 6-pack manifold is removed from the coach. I like to use a piece of tinfoil for that purpose. Easy on - easy off.

You want to be sure no bugs or dirt can get into those open lines. One tiny insect carcass in the wrong place could cause all kinds of mysterious leveling system problems.

One should also be careful with the manifold block itself, particularly the face where the valves screw on. That's an o-ring mating surface, it should be as smooth and clean as possible, and you need to be careful not to scratch it. Any radial scratches that cross the mating area can cause leaks.

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