High spike voltage !

Topic: High spike voltage ! (Read 1311 times) previous topic - next topic

High spike voltage !

March 05, 2016, 02:05:37 pm

At this camp ground we have enjoyed consistent electrical service for these past five years . Today and in the last three days , crews having been working on the power lines along side of this campground . Results of all this is our built in voltage protector has saved all on board sensitive equipment by shutting off all incoming electric . What I see on my Silver Leaf is a high of 151 on one leg and 137 on the other . After a period of time everything returns to normal . Then it does it all over again . Never gave much thought toward the surge protector , but knew it was there . Some people in the park said their TV stopped working and others that their micro wave quit . These people haven't a clue as to what happened , but they usually say something like --" it was getting old or was having trouble with it anyway , got to go to Camping World ." Makes you appreciate your Foretravel in spite of all the mess that goes on . Brad Metzger

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #1 – March 05, 2016, 02:40:20 pm

Quote from: Brad Metzger – March 05, 2016, 02:05:37 pm

Results of all this is our built in voltage protector has save all on board sensitive equipment by shutting off all incoming electric . What I see on my Silver Leaf is a high of 151 on one leg and 137 on the other . After a period of time everything returns to normal . Then it does it all over again . Never gave much thought toward the surge protector , but knew it was there .

Gasp! We took a big $$$ hit last year after "construction" nearby. Have a new Progressive Industries RV Surge and Electrical Protection industry EMS-PT-50C.

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #2 – March 05, 2016, 05:51:04 pm

the power company is responsible I would think

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Reply #3 – March 05, 2016, 07:12:38 pm

Brad, we were in a campground in the midwest a few years ago that had just installed a new electric system, power in coach kept shutting off. Panel read was showing 135-137 volts. I called James T. He told me how to reset the upper limit on the built in surge protector. He didn't find these numbers too high for safety. Apparently mine had been set by factory or PO at 132 or so.

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #4 – March 05, 2016, 07:56:35 pm

Could be , but over the years from loads of folks the number on the high side I keep hearing is 131 . Supposedly starting at 132 some electronics start to cook , then as it gets higher (never heard this number ) is when your TV ,and micro wave check out . I do know there are some ticked off folks in this campground with burned up things . Problem as It appears is the voltage went way up , stayed a while before it came back down to 137 then shot back up again over and over . This mess lasted about one full hour . People with portable surge protectors say all theirs were set at 132 as the high mark and they are all smiling . Several different makes of them and some shut off with the high number being displayed . Saw several showing on the high side of 140 area , some reset , some didn't , the one in my Foretraver did .

Brad Metzger

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #5 – March 05, 2016, 08:29:01 pm

132 is the magic number you hear because stuff is supposed to be able to handle nominal voltage (120VAC) +/- 10%. That would be 108 to 132 VAC.

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Reply #6 – March 06, 2016, 09:11:05 am

Here it is , the next day . Now people are finding out what got burned up . Amazing how yesterday lots of folks said to me , "it didn't effect me "and now they are seeing first hand that they got what every one else got . Some motor homes come with a surge protector , but most lower end stuff does not and very few trailers come with it . What I see is them plugged in at the pedestal with some sort of after market unit , but very few at that . Would expect this event will cost a bundle just at this camp ground alone . Brad Metzger

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #7 – March 06, 2016, 09:26:45 am

I was saved both at FOT and in a campground. The Power company had a loose neutral at FOT one year and everyone on the laundry room side got fried who did not have a surge protector. It burned up my surge guard but it did the job and the coach next to me needed new stuff including an inverter. I also was at a campground and it was high and also had an open neutral as well on a new section. Someone had skinned a wire. I went to the manager/owner and said you have a power problem and you have hot receptacles and it is wet out. People are going to be hurt. I got a bite when I went to unplug so I knew I was right. The power never made it into the coach. I also had an issue once at Fort Wilderness and they sent an electrician out right away. It would have been too late for me though if i did not have the surge protector.

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #8 – March 06, 2016, 09:31:28 am

We had a Progressive Industries HW50C installed in our Foretravel before our recent trip from the Carolinas to Phoenix and back. One night while asleep in TX, we heard the transfer switch "clunk." Sure enough, when we looked at the display in the coach (we have one in the bathroom and one in the utility bay): E 3, over-voltage error. The Progressive Industries documentation says it shuts down at 132V.

We also encountered E 2 (open ground) at a campground AZ. However, testing the power pedestal with a multimeter, it turned out the pedestal there was fine and the problem was a failing GFI outlet in our bathroom. The campground maintenance guy there said he runs into that a lot. Replaced the outlet. All is fine.

If anyone has experience with E 9 (data link down), we'd appreciate insight. We got that last night at Kentucky Horse Park outside Lexington, KY. The display showed E 9, but the Progressive Industries passed power to the coach (which the documentation says it won't do for E 1 through E 9). I shut off the breaker, jiggled the data cords connecting the various displays, and turned on the breaker. Same error, but same result: transfer switch "clunked" and the coach had pedestal power. Didn't check under the bed, where the Progressive Industries box is installed. Should have, but it was late, cold, and I was tired. :-)

A few minutes later, the displays righted themselves and showed the condition of the power was fine. Going to call Progressive Industries, who have always been good about questions, tomorrow.

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #9 – March 06, 2016, 10:11:09 am

Quote from: LookingWest – March 06, 2016, 09:31:28 am

If anyone has experience with E 9 (data link down), we'd appreciate insight.

What I see in my manual is "E-9 Down, call tech support", you could have taken a surge that fried some of the unit. Check your PE codes to see what errors you have had previously and tell the techs what happened. Be at the unit when you call them. The factory techs are top notch!

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #10 – March 06, 2016, 10:46:29 am

Quote from: Horace B. Cupp – March 05, 2016, 07:12:38 pm

Brad, we were in a campground in the midwest a few years ago that had just installed a new electric system, power in coach kept shutting off. Panel read was showing 135-137 volts. I called James T. He told me how to reset the upper limit on the built in surge protector. He didn't find these numbers too high for safety. Apparently mine had been set by factory or PO at 132 or so.

High voltage will, over a period of time, damage electronics, lights, and the fridge 120V. The original over voltage setting of 132 was done correctly and should not be changed (similarly the under voltage should be at 108V). This is not "just" a safety issue.

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Reply #11 – March 06, 2016, 10:54:42 am

Sure as shooten , the surge protector is saving us again today . I see 158 and 149 showing on the Silver leaf . This lasted a while and all is normal for a few minutes then , clunk and it does it all over again . Thinking this is not good for the system , I unplugged the 50 amp cord and will stay on inverter power for a while hoping things settle down . I went out to where the power line workers were working , but no work is going on today . So , I hold the camp ground management 's feet to the fire . Now most people are aware that this is happening and are up in arms about it . Am drawing a blank about what to do . Can't just stay here and hope nothing gets damaged . Brad Metzger

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #12 – March 06, 2016, 11:36:57 am

Low Voltage and Appliance Performance
People love to promote the myth that because low voltage overheats a load due to high current demand, high voltage is of little or at least minimal concern because current drawn by the load is less (P=IE(pf)) or Power (work done) = Current X Voltage X power factor. As I have pointed out several times on the Forum, anything outside of nameplate, + or - 5% rated supply voltage, (generally 120VAC + or minus 6 VAC needs to draw your attention. Outside of +or- 10% (generally +or- 12VAC) and you absolutely need to be unplugged and using your own generator and invertor.. Voltages at or over 131VAC are equal to or potentially even more damaging than undervoltage at or below 108VAC (often relaxed to 104 VAC because low voltages are more frequently encountered and also because they are less likely to create damage than an overly high voltage (>132VAC)).
The articles in the referenced Forum Post above give some of the reasons why voltages outside of +or- 10% of nominal (generally thought of as 104 to 131 VAC) MUST BE AVOIDED.
And:
The Highs and Lows of Motor Voltage

Neal

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #13 – March 06, 2016, 11:41:07 am

Quote from: Brad Metzger – March 06, 2016, 10:54:42 am

Sure as shooten , the surge protector is saving us again today . I see 158 and 149 showing on the Silver leaf . This lasted a while and all is normal for a few minutes then , clunk and it does it all over again . Thinking this is not good for the system , I unplugged the 50 amp cord and will stay on inverter power for a while hoping things settle down . I went out to where the power line workers were working , but no work is going on today . So , I hold the camp ground management 's feet to the fire . Now most people are aware that this is happening and are up in arms about it . Am drawing a plank about what to do . Can't just stay here and hope nothing gets damaged . Brad Metzger

Brad,

Those readings indicate a strong possibility that there is an open NEUTRAL between your coach and the transformer supplying the CG. Do not take a chance on it!

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #14 – March 06, 2016, 12:28:15 pm

Things have settled down for now , showing 123 and 124 which is what I usually see when things are ok . Spoke to a neighbor across the street . He has a 5th wheeler with a portable surge protector , and he saw 171 and 169 this morning . He is on a different transformer than we are on . Must be the incoming to the camp ground as the problem . . Each section here has about 12 RV's on the same transformers and seams they all showed about the same results . This only happens in the morning around 7AM to 9 AM . Don't know if the camp ground would be at fault . I have been listening to the wizards here and they say there are transformers with fixed settings and some are with automatic settings depending on the needed results on sensitivity requirement .

Brad Metzger

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #15 – March 06, 2016, 12:55:36 pm

The high-end Progressive will shut down the pedestal power to the coach for just about everything and give a code reading WHY it shut down. Something to remember before plugging-in, is to check the pedestal outlet for "charring, which means the AC receptacle is providing a weak connection, which could melt the RV power plug." Progressive also says NEVER plug the EMS into an inverter When we fried our transfer switch & plugs last year, the CG management claimed, "not on our watch", though they replaced the breaker at the pedestal, after the fact!

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #16 – March 06, 2016, 06:08:09 pm

Hearing all sorts of things that got fried with this event . But , here is a first that I didn't expect . To start with , there is a mix or RV's here , ours being "the " high end one . What I heard was , the house batteries got very hot and some split open . Don't know what charger was involved but they were mounted in the RV . There is some strange odors floating around that tell me (electrical) . Needless to say , there are some upset people . Brad Metzger

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #17 – March 06, 2016, 07:35:16 pm

Quote from: Brad Metzger – March 06, 2016, 06:08:09 pm

What I heard was , the house batteries got very hot and some split open . Don't know what charger was involved but they were mounted in the RV . There is some strange odors floating around that tell me (electrical) . Needless to say , there are some upset people .

The only two odors I fear are "that electrical smell" and the smell of burning brakes. When we took the hit up north, I'd say it was months before "that smell" was gone. Did you take any damage, Brad?

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Reply #18 – March 06, 2016, 08:04:53 pm

No damage . The built in surge protector did what it was designed for and I am shickeled teatless about the whole thing . Would guess that more than 60 RV's got some damage of one type or another . Might be a good place to show up with a pick up full of Surge protectors to sell .

Brad Metzger

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Reply #19 – March 06, 2016, 08:22:03 pm

So sad to hear.

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Reply #20 – March 07, 2016, 12:10:11 pm

This thing has got my attention to the point that I decided to see if I could find out the real cause of this . I phoned the power company , got the usual smooth answers you'd expect . Ask for the supervisor , another smooth word smith . Called back , this time I had the general managers name and extension number . I unloaded on him in a business manner , got his attention and his reply makes sense to a point . He stated that there a group of solar operatives and the company is required to purchase their extra electricity . When this juice is dumped into the grid a high spike is the result . I mentioned that it was his company's duty to protect the end users from damage from this kind of thing . He started to mention lawyers , was taking on a tone of not all that friendly anymore . Good bye's were said . WOW , didn't know exactly what I was going to find out from all this , but could see quickly where this was going . This AM voltage went to 130 for a bit , went back to 127 , did this back and forth and seams to settle in the normal range .

Brad Metzger

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Reply #21 – March 07, 2016, 12:32:18 pm

Brad- sounds like the electric company needs to get some good controllers if they are going to buy excess electricity from solar providers. We have controllers in our coach for solar , it reduces the voltage down to the right amount for my system. It seems to me it would make sense to protect the end user the same way with the power company.

Oh well, they didn't ask you or me about how to do it, did they?

Be safe my friend

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Reply #22 – March 07, 2016, 02:36:05 pm

With the right amount of solar panel and battery storage you can sleep well at night knowing you are just a bystander watching all the mess around you happen.

Another good reason for it.
JohnH

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #23 – March 07, 2016, 02:46:59 pm

Variable voltages occur in Mexico RV parks. The standard here I think is 127. The power at my pedestal is usually 129 and over 131 many times a day. Lower voltages also available; below 108/102. Spikes although not an everyday event, can and do happen.

Plugging into power here without a surge guard or another make is a big mistake if you value the electrical equipment in your rig.

30 amp power pedestals may be controlled or regulated with an ISB sola basic 4000 or an ecowise 30/1 voltage regulator. There is little technical information on the ecowise. There is quite a bit more on how the ISB works.

I use a 50/1 ecowise (only good for 30 amps) whole house voltage regulator (just one hot wire) It keeps my power at approx 118 plus or minus 2 or 3 volts . 99% of the time 118. The unit will shut off for spikes and start back up when voltage settles. It is reported to manage voltage from a low of 85 to a high of 145 before shutting down. Down stream I have a hard wired surge protector. After 2 long seasons of use without any electrical problems, I will continue to use this system and feel protected from outside electrical interference.

Re: High spike voltage !

Reply #24 – March 07, 2016, 04:57:10 pm

i would pull out and or run the generator if I was staying there. If you do not need AC get a portable battery charger and live on the inverter.

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