Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

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Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

March 08, 2016, 01:37:31 pm

I am having an issue with the generator auto start in my 1998 U270. When I set the toggle switch to Auto, it starts immediately. The device on this year is called a Simple Switch (picture attached) from Photron industries(no longer in business of course). the input voltage is 12.8 so it should not start. there are some adjustment screws on the from of the switch. does anyone have an adjustment procedure for them?
should I even try?

Also, drawing A6682 shows a rear start switch for the generator. Where would that be located?

Thanks
Rick

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #1 – March 08, 2016, 01:42:58 pm

The rear switch on my 2003 is over your head when laying in bed, near the clock and various light switches.

Did you measure the voltage right on the Simple Switch unit, and check the grounds?

It might be completely toast, but you could also try the two trimpots to see if anything changes, One probably adjusts the trip voltage.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #2 – March 08, 2016, 02:11:51 pm

Curious question, we're those "auto-starts" stock, and, if so, when were they introduced?

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #3 – March 08, 2016, 02:33:03 pm

Quote from: mike leary – March 08, 2016, 02:11:51 pm

Curious question, we're those "auto-starts" stock, and, if so, when were they introduced?

The GenWizard appeared to be a stock item on our 1997 U295. It did not work when we bought the coach in 2010. Wayne at FOT showed me why it didn't work. He showed me all the wires that were terminated and capped when the control unit was removed. The GenWizards were remarkably unreliable.

I installed a Magnum autostart controller about two years ago. It works, but I've not used it. The coach is almost always plugged to shore power. The few times the coach has been off shore power for more than a couple of days, I've been living in it and have manually managed generator run time.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #4 – March 08, 2016, 03:20:14 pm

Thanks for all the responses.

Tom
I am measuring the voltage at the simple switch at 12.8 across the +12v and ground terminals. Measuring at the battery gives me the same so there is no visible voltage drop. Thanks for the answer on the switch location.
Mike
I am not sure when they were introduced. Mine was working fine until a couple weeks ago. I would always leave it on "Auto" at the storage lot because the electricity has been known to cut out also, anytime I was dry camping with the furnace on.
J.D.
Did you install the Magnum unit yourself? how difficult is it to do.

Does anyone have a procedure for installing the magnum unit?

Thanks

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #5 – March 08, 2016, 05:54:24 pm

Quote from: AncloteJoe – March 08, 2016, 01:37:31 pm

...................there are some adjustment screws on the from of the switch. does anyone have an adjustment procedure for them?
should I even try?......................

Also, drawing A6682 shows a rear start switch for the generator. Where would that be located?.................

Rick,
No rear start for the generator on the U270 (that's only on the U295's & U320's).
I would take the connections off one at a time, put some dielectric grease on each, and then reconnect them. Do the same with the fuse. I had the generator auto start one time in the warehouse and Brenda was some ticked off that the exhaust ruined a whole bunch of her Craft Business Inventory. I found that the control was not reliable. After that incident, I never left the auto start on when in an enclosed space! I did the above dielectric grease steps but I also had a variable DC Power supply so I adjusted the two pots (on the Photon control) to set the "start" potentiometer at 12.15 Vdc cut-in and the "cut-out" potentiometer for 13.95 Vdc. I never was sure what cured it (the dielectric grease or the "wiping" and adjustment of the setpoint potentiometers). However, you may be facing old age vs. either of the above.
Best wishes -- are you going to the S FL Rally in Naples? If yes, would love to catch up with you and Wendy.
Neal

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #6 – March 08, 2016, 07:39:56 pm

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – March 08, 2016, 05:54:24 pm

Rick,
No rear start for the generator on the U270 (that's only on the U320's).

Neal

Regarding generator switch above the bed In the rear my 96, U270 has it.... most likely a add on from the original buyer.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #7 – March 08, 2016, 08:11:02 pm

Quote from: Doug W. – March 08, 2016, 07:39:56 pm

Regarding generator switch above the bed In the rear my 96, U270 has it.... most likely a add on from the original buyer.

Doug,
Good point.
An interesting "tid-bit" is that (if one pokes around a bit in a U270's wiring, under the panels) many of the missing features on a U270 are prewired, even though (for example) the ceiling fan, the bay door locks or the various control switches, etc., are not actually installed. Of course that makes sense in that wire looms were assembled in a shop separate from the coach and it wouldn't make good design or economic sense to customize every wire loom based on each individual coach model or customer order. So there are lots of unadvertised spare wires in a U270.
Neal

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #8 – March 08, 2016, 09:35:06 pm

Quote from: AncloteJoe – March 08, 2016, 03:20:14 pm

J.D.
Did you install the Magnum unit yourself? how difficult is it to do.

Yes, I installed it myself. It was not difficult. It did require running a few wires among the "brain," the control switch, and the generator controls on the dash. I made the error of trying to use "small" (Cat 5) wires on the first attempt. Second (successful) attempt, I used #16 (I think) wires.

I put the "brain" in a cabinet over the driver position. I put the control switch below the climate control panel on the wire chase behind the driver position. I used crimp spade connectors (male and female) to tap into the generator controls on the dash. I did not cut any of the original wires. I made appropriate "splitters" with the spade connectors. I used a connector on the 12VDC accessory socket on the dash as a reference voltage source. One of the 12VDC sockets on the dash connects to house batteries and the other connects to chassis batteries. For the generator autostart, measure voltage from the house batteries.

Be sure to disconnect ALL connections from batteries (-) to ground before you start messing with wires in the dash. Also, disconnect or disable (cover up) all solar panels.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #9 – March 09, 2016, 09:06:26 am

Neal, Thanks for the insight on this. I am not storing the coach in a closed garage so there is no issue with the exhaust. I will try the dielectric grease treatment and see if that does the trick. It was working before my last trip which was cold, wet and rainy so the moisture could have gotten to it. If this doesn't work, I will be looking at the magnum unit that J.D. installed. As far as the Naples rally, we have previous plans and not planning on attending. I would love to catch up as well.

J.D. Thanks for the information. is this the unit you used?

ME-AGS-S Automatic Generator Start For Standalone Systems

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Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #10 – March 09, 2016, 09:17:56 am

Quote from: AncloteJoe – March 09, 2016, 09:06:26 am

J.D. Thanks for the information. is this the unit you used?

ME-AGS-S Automatic Generator Start For Standalone Systems

Yes

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #11 – March 09, 2016, 09:58:42 am

Rick, google Photron Simple Switch, it came up with a simple switch ll for 88 bucks, I dont know if you can use it.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #12 – March 09, 2016, 06:22:17 pm

Not sure about 270 not having rear start switch. My 99 model looks orig. But I guess it could have been special ordered with that option.
Jerry

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #13 – March 09, 2016, 08:30:30 pm

Jerry,
The 1999 U270 brochure does not list a bedroom generator start switch while the 1999 U295 & U320 brochures do. So, it could be an oversight in the U270 brochure but I would think it is more likely that the switch was an after market add on by a PO.
Neal

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #14 – March 09, 2016, 09:20:15 pm

Here is info on our Magnum standalone auto generator start installation.
Automatic Generator Start Module- Where is it and is it adjustable?

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #15 – July 31, 2022, 07:13:48 pm

The adjustment instructions are right on the Simple Switch label. Just follow them. Simple.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #16 – July 31, 2022, 07:22:44 pm

Quote from: AncloteJoe – March 08, 2016, 01:37:31 pm

I am having an issue with the generator auto start in my 1998 U270. When I set the toggle switch to Auto, it starts immediately. The device on this year is called a Simple Switch (picture attached) from Photron industries(no longer in business of course). the input voltage is 12.8 so it should not start. there are some adjustment screws on the from of the switch. does anyone have an adjustment procedure for them?
should I even try?

Also, drawing A6682 shows a rear start switch for the generator. Where would that be located?

Thanks
Rick

Instructions for adjustments are right on the label. The value thus set, can be read from the set point reading loops to terminal N, (the 12v - input).

Simple Switches are extremely reliable and epoxy sealed so they stay that way, forever.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #17 – July 31, 2022, 07:27:46 pm

Quote from: Tom Lang – March 08, 2016, 01:42:58 pm

The rear switch on my 2003 is over your head when laying in bed, near the clock and various light switches.

Did you measure the voltage right on the Simple Switch unit, and check the grounds?

It might be completely toast, but you could also try the two trimpots to see if anything changes, One probably adjusts the trip voltage.

The SimpleSwitch has two trimpots, one for the on and one for the off set point. Setpoint Reading Loops are provided so you know precisely what is being set. When "on" the LED triggers, and the replaceable form C relay changes position accordingly. Very straight forward, very reliable, and still very available. All instructions are right on the label.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #18 – July 31, 2022, 07:29:24 pm

Quote from: Mike Leary (RIP) – March 08, 2016, 02:11:51 pm

Curious question, we're those "auto-starts" stock, and, if so, when were they introduced?

The first Genwizard was produced circa 1987.
The first SimpleSwitch was produced circa 1992.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #19 – July 31, 2022, 07:33:10 pm

Quote from: J. D. Stevens – March 08, 2016, 02:33:03 pm

The GenWizard appeared to be a stock item on our 1997 U295. It did not work when we bought the coach in 2010. Wayne at FOT showed me why it didn't work. He showed me all the wires that were terminated and capped when the control unit was removed. The GenWizards were remarkably unreliable.

I installed a Magnum autostart controller about two years ago. It works, but I've not used it. The coach is almost always plugged to shore power. The few times the coach has been off shore power for more than a couple of days, I've been living in it and have manually managed generator run time.

Genwizards are extremely reliable. People that understand how to install equipment properly, not so much. To this day, there is no finer autostart control, nor one that can do what Genwaizrds do (control power transfer switches, exercise generators intelligently, and so on).

Disparaging equipment you do not understand helps no one.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #20 – July 31, 2022, 08:44:15 pm

Just FYI, this thread was 6 years old.

Re: Generator Auto Start - Auto starting regardless of voltage

Reply #21 – August 01, 2022, 09:49:05 am

Quote from: WS6_Keith – July 31, 2022, 08:44:15 pm

Just FYI, this thread was 6 years old.

Shhhhhh!

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