Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #25 – March 12, 2016, 10:46:42 pm My wife and I just spent a day at the horse races on a wet and sloppy track making an investment, I guess. Went back to the motorhome tonight to lick our wounds. I suppose an investment is a matter of conjecture. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #26 – March 12, 2016, 10:56:25 pm Folks, the question Mr Gadget asked was about getting some help with the driving side of making a choice to move forward into the motorhome life.Quote from: TheGadgetGuru – March 12, 2016, 12:04:18 amI have to say that I've been wanting to purchase my first coach for the longest time, and have both the Realm and the IH-45 on my short list along with the King Aire. My question is not typical and I hope to receive some solid advice. While I truly want to make the plunge the big factor is learning to drive with good habits in a safe and responsible manner and how to perform basic maintenance tasks. I've contacted a number of dealers and with the exception of one (Lazydays), the answer is the same. Here's the question:Prior to purchasing a 45' luxury coach, do you provide any detailed driver training? While I like what I'm seeing with both the Realm and IH-45 as well as the King Aire, where in the heck do I go to learn to drive before I buy? I don't want to be one of those folks who knocks down street signs on the way home or who realizes that I'm simply over my head. So, any constructive suggestions on how this rookie can be made comfortable enough to spend the big bucks on a top of the line coach...There are lots of ways to move into this lifestyle, but comfort in this case is related to driving the coach and being safe, not the best way we can think of for him to choose to spend his resources.I sure hope you get a beauty and we get to see it someday. Good shopping to you.Roger Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #27 – March 12, 2016, 11:16:47 pm Gadget,First, I trust you've done enough research to ascertain that these rigs depreciate like the F-4 Phantom glides without thrust. Also, you need to be fairly mechanically inclined or be a shrewd negotiator. Well, you need that anyway if you are buying at this end. Pakistani rug salesman level of skills in fact. That said, it's your money. Buy it. Drive until you smell ---- and hear glass. You'll be fine. My first rig was 45' and I drove very timid and made very careful route plans. But, I was pretty sure I could do it based on my knowledge of who else did. That's how I got through basic training and many things in life. I've not driven near what most of these folks have driven in terms of miles, and am considering a CDL for safety and the experience. I don't know that you have to do that before you buy your rig though.Also, I've owned a King Aire and a Foretravel. I'd pick the Foretravel any day. The construction really is better. Dealing directly with the manufacturer is refreshing. They are tremendous people. But this forum is worth it's weight in gold. These folks have offered a place to stay, their rig to drive, countless answers to my stupid questions, suggestions on routes, campground ideas, personal messages with genuine concern for me, and on and on. They make the brand. Good luck in your search. Hope to meet you on the road.Joe Quote Selected 5 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #28 – March 13, 2016, 12:33:45 am Quote from: Lucky1 – March 12, 2016, 11:16:47 pmGadget,First, I trust you've done enough research to ascertain that these rigs depreciate like the F-4 Phantom glides without thrust. Also, you need to be fairly mechanically inclined or be a shrewd negotiator. Well, you need that anyway if you are buying at this end. Pakistani rug salesman level of skills in fact. That said, it's your money. Buy it. Drive until you smell ---- and hear glass. You'll be fine. My first rig was 45' and I drove very timid and made very careful route plans. But, I was pretty sure I could do it based on my knowledge of who else did. That's how I got through basic training and many things in life. I've not driven near what most of these folks have driven in terms of miles, and am considering a CDL for safety and the experience. I don't know that you have to do that before you buy your rig though.Also, I've owned a King Aire and a Foretravel. I'd pick the Foretravel any day. The construction really is better. Dealing directly with the manufacturer is refreshing. They are tremendous people. But this forum is worth it's weight in gold. These folks have offered a place to stay, their rig to drive, countless answers to my stupid questions, suggestions on routes, campground ideas, personal messages with genuine concern for me, and on and on. They make the brand. Good luck in your search. Hope to meet you on the road.JoeThanks Joe! You brought up a good point about depreciation and to me that's why I would prefer to buy my last coach first. I've always operated under the philosophy that your home is not a financial investment...it's an investment the lifestyle of you and your family. With that said, I can't see why a coach would be any different. While I don't want to go hog wild, if I make the right decision upfront, I won't mind paying for quality as it will hopefully be the last coach I own...and I hope to own it for a very long time. Quote Selected 4 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #29 – March 13, 2016, 09:34:26 am Quote from: TheGadgetGuru – March 12, 2016, 10:18:22 pmIt's interesting to hear that some feel it's best to have a starter coach and others say, go for it. I guess that part of my desire of going all in, up front is that I'm seeking a coach that, other than including all the modern creature comforts of home and being designed for the way that I want to live life on the roadThis last part is what's behind my thought process in starting with a gently used high quality coach that you can resell without too much "pain and suffering" The driving is just one aspect. Yes, you want to be comfortable doing so, but you also spend a fair portion of your time using the coach and it can be worth debugging that aspect up front as well.When you haven't been an RVer, it's going to be more difficult to get the floorplan/storage/amenities right for you on a new build. Not to say it can't be done, but in the price space you're looking, and especially if you're thinking IH which is totally custom, it might be worth the debug investment to figure out "do I prefer a mid bath or a rear bath? Do I need a bath and a half? When everyone's in their preferred seat, is the TV in a viewable location? Darn it, my favorite pasta pot that I inherited from Grandma is 10" tall and it won't fit in any of the cabinets. Hey, where do you store towels in this thing? Is there enough counter space to roll out pie dough for my famous recipe? Whoever tiled the shower with 1/2" mosaic obviously never had to scrub grout lines/I wish there were grout lines/mosaic tile to break up this monolith of solid surface.Kind of like a dress rehearsal before the live performance Michelle Quote Selected 4 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #30 – March 13, 2016, 09:38:32 am Too bad you did not get to keep that Country Coach on the Prevost chassis. What fun to do that segment there in NYC. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #31 – March 13, 2016, 10:07:26 am Quote from: Michelle – March 13, 2016, 09:34:26 amDo I need a bath and a half? When everyone's in their preferred seat, is the TV in a viewable location? Darn it, my favorite pasta pot that I inherited from Grandma is 10" tall and it won't fit in any of the cabinets. Hey, where do you store towels in this thing? Is there enough counter space to roll out pie dough for my famous recipe? Whoever tiled the shower with 1/2" mosaic obviously never had to scrub grout lines/I wish there were grout lines/mosaic tile to break up this monolith of solid surface.Kind of like a dress rehearsal before the live performance MichelleGreat Points Michelle!The first thought that popped into my head when reading your response was: Has any manufacturer, or even the RVIA, come up with some sort of online checklist of the common available features and feature options and allow the responses to provide some sort of recommendation of the layout that would best suit that specific buyer's needs? This could be an effective method to insure that rookies such as myself are not overlooking some layout features features and functions that seasoned users would take for granted. Moving to the IH-45 specifically, maybe I'm missing something but in the available photos, I'm not seeing that the kitchen has a pull out cabinet that allows for additional counter space. Considering this feature is included on the Realm models, is this something that's available as an option on the IH? Or, is it one of those things that would add great cost as a custom feature?My other questions about the IH are chassis related (and please remember, I'm coming from the newbie's point of view). It appears the IH chassis does not incorporate an active steering rear tag axle. Is this a feature that truly reduces turning radius and eases slow speed maneuverability or is it a nice gimmick? How important of a feature is this and is it something that if not included would steer a potential purchaser (pun intended) to a different model?Also, I'm noticing in the promo videos outboard mounted airbags are promoted to be a notable upgrade that's exclusive to the IH-45. Is there a noticeable difference in ride and handling with this feature?Finally, Foretravel is promoting its Premere Steer feature. Is this something that is comparable to Newmar's Comfort Drive System and does it assist in both low speed and highway driving situations? Yes, I'm at the stage where I have more questions than answers and as my signature line states, we were all newbies at some point! Quote Selected
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #32 – March 13, 2016, 10:35:38 am Quote from: TheGadgetGuru – March 13, 2016, 10:07:26 amAlso, I'm noticing in the promo videos outboard mounted airbags are promoted to be a notable upgrade that's exclusive to the IH-45. Is there a noticeable difference in ride and handling with this feature?While I can't answer the questions about active tag steering or "premier steer", I can tell you that, with the possible exception of the Realm (since it's not FT's chassis and I'm not sure what Spartan does), Foretravel has used outboard mounted airbags on all their coaches for years, going back into the 90's. There is definitely a difference in ride/handling compared to other brands with more inboard-mounted air bags. Less body roll, less sway. IFS on the newer coaches is a bit different up front, though, so FT added HWH's Active Air (option in some, standard in others, beginning somewhere after 2006) to address the ride differences with IFS. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #33 – March 13, 2016, 10:41:25 am Gadget,For your info, if you get a new Newmar, you will get Oasis Hydronic Heating. A new Foretravel has Aqua Hot Hydronic heating. Both are good systems but a different approach to the heating of water and interior.I can work on both systems. I prefer the Aqua Hot approach by a bunch. Not a deal killer but a point in Foretravel's corner. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #34 – March 13, 2016, 11:27:18 am Gadget,I have a 2010 Nimbus. I think it drives way better than the King Aire. It does not have the comfort steer, nor the turning tag. The turning radius in those coaches with the turning tag are definitely shorter. But, you still won't be pulling into small parking lots. The comfort steer is basically an ability to dial in how much power steering assist you want. On my King Aire, I dialed it in and never changed it. On my Foretravel, I have never felt the need. It's easy to drive. The much bigger question for me is how well does it track going down the road. My foretravel tracks like it is on rails. Both it and the 2005 I bought as a test (and it had almost 100,000 miles) did. Next is ride over road. Next was what does the coach tell me with random noises going down the road. In all of those instances, Foretravel was my pick. The most notable difference I see in ride is determined by Active Air ride. I think all those rigs you are evaluating have active air.King Aire is a hell of a coach. One advantage you have with King Aire is some basic foundation of value based on NADA wholesale (don't even look at retail) book value. Newmar sells enough King Aires that some basic credible sales comp information exists. With Foretravel, it's way closer to looking into a crystal ball to determine what's fair market value. And if that gets done incorrectly, you might leave a nice lake cottage in value on the table.I ultimately chose a 2010 after driving the Realm and the IH because I never got comfortable with being able to understand the depreciation curve. But, whatever it is, it's lots. If I buy the right used coach, I can spend my money on upgrades each year and come out light years ahead because 40-50% of the depreciation was paid for by the previous owners. I might change to an IH later but I'm finding a strong emotional attachment to this coach and the money I'm saving. Happy to visit anytime. Message me if you'd like to visit offline. Quote Selected 3 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #35 – March 13, 2016, 11:39:36 am Realm is built on a commercial high end Spartan Chassis, IH is built on Foretravel proprietary chassis. Each has each advantages. As for interior features, if you can dream it, they will do it. (Allow time, bring money!!) Great questions, as we discussed live Andy a trip from south FL to Meccadoches is in order soon. And maybe a "starter coach" as an option ( as many have suggested) would help you refine your requirements. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #36 – March 13, 2016, 11:51:54 am Member Jeff H moved from an Entegra (2015 Cornerstone, I believe) to a 2016 Realm and would be the best first-hand Realm feedback on the forum. Video overview of my new RealmBTW, I see that many of the 2016 IH's on FT's site have passive steering tag, the 2017 show coach does not (nor do 2015). You could possibly test drive 2015 and a 2016 at FOT for an apples to apples comparison. The King Aire has the passive tag as well, I believe, as does the 2016 and up Essex. 2017 Entegra Cornerstone will have it (2016 does not). Newell has an active steering tag on their proprietary chassis. Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #37 – March 13, 2016, 12:03:26 pm Quote from: Tim Fiedler – March 13, 2016, 11:39:36 amRealm is built on a commercial high end Spartan Chassis, IH is built on Foretravel proprietary chassis. Each has each advantages. As for interior features, if you can dream it, they will do it. (Allow time, bring money!!) Great questions, as we discussed live Andy a trip from south FL to Meccadoches is in order soon. And maybe a "starter coach" as an option ( as many have suggested) would help you refine your requirements.Thanks Tim. I agree...a trip to Texas will most likely occur within the next month. Right now, I'm in my due diligence state and still learning which questions I need to ask! Quote Selected
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #38 – March 13, 2016, 12:03:55 pm It seems to me the original topic- Driving a 45' MH is the easiest challenge for you to accomplish. Everything else you mention, chassis, tag, steering, layout are the difficult things to understand and consider, not to mention placing a personal value on them. As Michelle has noted finding out what you need and works for you re: layout and the stuff mentioned above are personal choice which is why many of us have had multiple units from multiple manufacturers with different layouts. It takes time to discover what we want/need.To address your question: Checklist. You have only view and research different units and you will see different check lists in "the flesh".You are fortunate, or not, being able to consider a NEW motorhome for a first motorhome and as many have said, you can have built what you want but as others have said "A ten year old FT is better than a new SOB".The questions that you are asking are ones we all ask ourselves and only you can answer by doing research, driving the different coaches and determining which features are important and are must haves as opposed to nice to have.I think that you are in a unique position, and if I were you, I would make travel plans to visit a Prevost conversion company or two, Newmar and Foretravel and maybe Newell. Meet their people see their manufacturing processes and drive their coaches. Time permitting you could plan a two or three day visit at each facility and I am quite sure that each company would provide you with technical answers as well as time to meet with their interior designers to really see what you could build. For example: if Carol and I were having a coach built I would not be interested in power interior door or some of the fancy laminate interior materials that many High End coach builders use. We like less glitzy interiors and would design with that in mind however we are not able to build new, and are very happy with our Ol' Girl.Again you are in a somewhat unique position in that you can purchase what you want the way you want it - especially at the price point you have in mind. Prevost, Newell, Foretravel and Newmar all make good coaches and each have their own identity and things that make them what they are.Enjoy the journey and your learning experience. Good luck and have fun. Quote Selected 3 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #39 – March 13, 2016, 12:10:33 pm Quote from: Carol & Scott – March 13, 2016, 12:03:55 pmEnjoy the journey and your learning experience. Good luck and have fun. 👍🏻 Quote Selected
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #40 – March 13, 2016, 01:02:24 pm Quote from: TheGadgetGuru – March 13, 2016, 12:03:26 pmThanks Tim. I agree...a trip to Texas will most likely occur within the next month. Right now, I'm in my due diligence state and still learning which questions I need to ask!Andy,Speaking of due diligence, please don't forget to consider that most painful of all encounters...Murphy...as in Murphy's law. This law applies to motorcoaches in boat loads. It will try your patience and skills at the most inconvenient moments. But, it's alright, we all have survived these various and often painful encounters with Mr. Murphy. I say this because Foreforums is an antidote to Mr. Murphy, and so is the Foretravel Tech Support you get when you own a Foretravel. You will likely never find a better built coach with this kind of forum and technical support from its members and the factory.BTW, have you visited beamalarms.com yet? It gets better...just visit to learn all there is to know about Foretravels new & old. Quote Selected 6 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #41 – March 13, 2016, 01:30:34 pm Quote from: Peter & Beth – March 13, 2016, 01:02:24 pmAndy,Speaking of due diligence, please don't forget to consider that most painful of all encounters...Murphy...as in Murphy's law. This law applies to motorcoaches in boat loads. It will try your patience and skills at the most inconvenient moments. But, it's alright, we all have survived these various and often painful encounters with Mr. Murphy. I say this because Foreforums is an antidote to Mr. Murphy, and so is the Foretravel Tech Support you get when you own a Foretravel. You will likely never find a better built coach with this kind of forum and technical support from its members and the factory.BTW, have you visited beamalarms.com yet? It gets better...jsut visit to learn all there is to know about Foretravels new & old. We should start a new thread with favorite Murphy's Law RV story. I've got a few involving everything from black tank value failure to climbing over the engine to get in when the door mechanism failed. back to topic.... Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #42 – March 13, 2016, 02:06:50 pm Quote from: Peter & Beth – March 13, 2016, 01:02:24 pmBTW, have you visited beamalarms.com yet? I copied and pasted that link and it's not taking me to a working website. Can you post that again? Quote Selected
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #43 – March 13, 2016, 02:08:30 pm Quote from: TheGadgetGuru – March 13, 2016, 12:03:26 pmThanks Tim. I agree...a trip to Texas will most likely occur within the next month. Right now, I'm in my due diligence state and still learning which questions I need to ask!Easy way to fly is on American AL thru DFW into Tyler, TX (TYR) & rent a car at the airport, easy in & easy out, drive is about an hour and a half. Plenty of decent hotels & a couple of very nice B&B's to stay at. Check out TripAdvisor: Read Reviews, Compare Prices & Book I'd spend a couple of days at Motorhomes of TX (they let you crawl thru as many as you like on the lot) + another day or two at Foretravel. Foretravel has several IH-45's in stock & you could probably get in a little test drive time...I think MOT also has one for sale right now....I'd go with a pre-owned no matter what, it'd take some serious work & $ to iron out all the "new" bugs, better to let someone else do it, IMHO. As for driving the IH-45, it is quite a bit taller than many, but an extremely smooth & easy drive....we did all the maneuvering at the annual Ladies' Driving School: parking, backing into a tight spot, parking right up to a front barrier, winding our way thru set courses, highway driving, & it was amazingly easy to handle. Happy travels & shopping and hope to see you down the road in a Foretravel one of these days! If you haven't seen the 2 main FT sites already: Luxury Pre-Owned Motorhome Dealer for Foretravel Newell Country Coach. & Foretravel Motorcoach - Custom Handcrafted Luxury Since 1967 Quote Selected 3 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #44 – March 13, 2016, 02:09:13 pm Quote from: TheGadgetGuru – March 13, 2016, 02:06:50 pmI copied and pasted that link and it's not taking me to a working website. Can you post that again?Barry and Darlene Brideau's Personal Website Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #45 – March 13, 2016, 02:10:59 pm Quote from: nitehawk – March 12, 2016, 05:37:13 pmSo you have to unhook the towed to back up. So, what? One time in 5000 miles. Jeez Louise!! that ratio is 1/5000.Drive the coach as if you stole it. You aren't buying it to make a garage queen out of it, are you?We just haven't figured out what exactly we want to tow and how (Lexus is 4 wheels up, Corvette hard to get on a trailer and full size truck on a trailer, not). Will figure it out when we're ready and. Ya, I would love it to be our garage queen but we love using too much. This coach cost 16. Times more than our new truck in 1995. She's our BABY. Quote Selected
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #46 – March 14, 2016, 06:04:46 pm There are several factors that come into play in this type of decision. First and foremost dont assume a smaller coach is going to be easier to drive than a 45' Foretravel. Once you get used to the width and the driving position of a class A (Sitting ahead of the front axle) the overall length rarely comes into play. Yes there are times you will wish for a shorter coach but there are more times you will be glad you have the space. A smaller under powered coach with an off the shelf chassis is not going to be anywhere near as easy to drive as a Foretravel. Merging, passing, grade-ability come into play every time you release the parking brake... All of this is important but the most important factor is braking. Disk brakes and a retarder are the biggest safety features of these coaches and I would not own a Class A without them.Depending on the depth of your pockets a well kept later model U320 will exceed all expectations in comfort and performance and if bough right will be in the flat part of the depreciation curve... If you can afford new by all means go for it as we need to keep up the supply of used high quality Foretravels for those of us who are in a bit lower tax bracket!!! ;-) Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #47 – March 14, 2016, 10:24:17 pm Thanks to all for the great input...it's greatly appreciated. I think I may have learned why so few new owners purchase their last coach first, and that's simply because there's probably a few others out there like me who want to learn how to drive one and get a bit of operational training before making the new coach purchase. While there's a number of companies who are willing to train a new coach owner after they've made the purchase, I'm having a heck of a time trying to find a way to get my training prior to making the purchase. But, I'm a pretty stubborn guy and I don't give up easy! I did contact Foretravel and asked about this, but the salesman was quite adamant that they couldn't provide any training prior to purchase. So, if the Foretravel dealers are reading this post, please feel I was not provided solid information free to send me a PM.I have to say that I was set on purchasing my last coach first and having it equipped for my lifestyle. Right now, I'm not so sure. I've gotten some pretty good advice that a starter coach may be the best way to go and to drive it for a year or so until I figure out if I want to go all in and if so, which features and layout will best suit my needs. As the old Greyhound ads used to say, "Half the fun is getting there." If that's true, I must be having a blast! Quote Selected
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #48 – March 14, 2016, 11:52:17 pm Ask lots of questions to motorhome owners. What do they like. What don't like. How they learned to drive..... Early on in our search I would ask owners in camp grounds that we visited these questions and many more. We found most folks are pleased to share their experiences and will show you around. You are learning and will continue to learn and along the way you will narrow your search. Whether it be learning to drive or what equipment you desire/require. :-D Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: Newbie Question: How To Make The First Coach The Last Coach Reply #49 – March 15, 2016, 12:28:24 am OK I am going to go the opposite way to the general reply ( and this is NOT to say they are wrong). I believe a lot depends on whether the value of a high end product actually has any bearing on the decision or not? Said another way, if the cost is immaterial to the Buyer then I say do it and have fun learning. If it is a major purchase in ones life then yes maybe step back and re-evaluate the idea. It would be a nice thing to do, just go out and spend the money and have no worries about doing that, but most of the suggestions have come from people who maybe are not be able to have the potential of a major financial hit in a year or two if things do not work out!I definitly would not want it, but it would not be the end of the world I guess (close maybe!!). So this is my thought and I guess the only one that can answer this truethfully is "the Gadget Guy", so, over to you Sir.JohnHps if you want to come to BC you can drive my coach but you will have to imagine another 9 ft tied to the back of it!! Quote Selected 3 Likes
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