Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #25 – March 27, 2016, 10:46:34 am Quote from: Larry Rubin – March 27, 2016, 10:35:33 amYou should have seen me when I first saw the rust. I did! Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #26 – March 29, 2016, 12:02:00 am I've seen this movie myself... My repairs were quite similar to Don's but I needed to do the next bay forward as well to find good solid metal to weld to. I added more steel as well and was pretty liberal with the POR-15. I've been meaning to follow up with some pictures but there always seems to be something more important to do. The moral of this story is that even though the bukheads look ok things might not be what they seem. My issue was, over time leaks in the wet bay caused the frame to rust then rot. Its a big job no doubt about it but certainly not the worst. I would love to know what it costs to have (real guys) do this job..Your coach will be better than new when it's done and you'll know that the only weak spot in an otherwise indestructible coach is nothing you need to think about. Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #27 – March 29, 2016, 10:06:43 am Quote from: andyr – March 29, 2016, 12:02:00 am over time leaks in the wet bay caused the frame to rust then rot. When we were doing the walk-thru prior to buying our coach, the PO was VERY ADAMANT about watching for water leaks around the wet bay. I took his advise and check the area often! Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #28 – March 29, 2016, 01:45:59 pm Quote from: andyr – March 29, 2016, 12:02:00 amIts a big job no doubt about it but certainly not the worst. I would love to know what it costs to have (real guys) do this job.I'll be happy to share the number of hours billed and the parts cost but you would have to use that as just a guide. I'm sure there is a big variation between each job. Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame - progress update Reply #29 – March 31, 2016, 06:19:43 pm The new frame has been welded. The frame will be moved over to Xtreme for cleaning and painting and the top and bottom Filon pieces glued on and then back to Bernds for assembly. Lots of details to get good welds and to add tubing whereever support is needed for anything heavy. The decision was to add framing instead of plates to ensure support. This picture shows the almost completed frame. It was assembled over the old frame which was positioned bottom up. Since the bottom Filon came off when the frame was removed and the insulation and top Filon were still attached, it was easy to see things this way. The old frame had some issues besides the rust. Some of the welds were just OK and it wasn't as square as they are making the new frame. Of course no one would have known this since there was no problem that made the frame suspect.You can clearly see how the insulation melted from the AquaHot exhaust. I had extended the exhaust so as not to be under the living room slide and the insulation above the new pipe melted too. A heat shield will be added after everthing is put back together. I suggest everyone with AquaHot either add a heat shield above the exhaust or wrap the pipe (and seal the wrap so as not to hold moister.)Here's a close up an end corner. The rusted part is some bulkhead sheet metal. The open ends of the old frame were sealed close. The ends of the new one will be too. Quote Selected 4 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #30 – March 31, 2016, 07:40:49 pm Larry,It looks like you're getting some good quality work done out there in Coach Buck City. Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #31 – March 31, 2016, 08:31:52 pm Looking good! The original welds were just on the vertical sides of the tubing. It looks like that is how the new one is being done well. Maybe a bit paranoid (but I had good reason to be!), but I welded all four sides on the utility bay, and three sides forward of that. And as ours had ⅛" 1.5" angle iron on the outside rails, I welded ⅛" 1.25" angle iron nested from stem to stern to create ¼" thick full length rails for the compartment trim. How thick was the tubing on the new one? The original of the mid to late 90's was only 18 gauge (wall thickness less than 1/16", except for the two bulkhead joining pieces which were 11 gauge (⅛" thick walled). It looks like the new frame is 13 gauge or better.Don Quote Selected 2 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #32 – April 01, 2016, 07:29:59 pm Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – March 31, 2016, 08:31:52 pmLooking good! The original welds were just on the vertical sides of the tubing. It looks like that is how the new one is being done well. How thick was the tubing on the new one? The original of the mid to late 90's was only 18 gauge (wall thickness less than 1/16", except for the two bulkhead joining pieces which were 11 gauge (⅛" thick walled). It looks like the new frame is 13 gauge or better.DonThe new frame was welded on all sides. The picture that I sent previously showed only the first side. It's 11 gauge which was the gauge of the end parts of the old frame and I believe the rest as well. Bernd's guys turned the frame over and did a great job finishing all edges, welded end caps to close the ends of the long outermost pieces and added metal to the entire exposed part of the sewer cutout so it will not show any tube but rather finished flat pieces.This shows the section of the new frame around the sewer drain opening. The bottom area has been grinded smooth. (For those looking very closely, the welds do not extend to the end of the drain opening. They were added after this picture.)This shows an example of the old frame which does not have welds all around the tube nor any rust preventive coating. Quote Selected 5 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #33 – April 01, 2016, 11:58:47 pm I noticed two tubes running parallel and touching in one of the above photos. Good place for dirt to settle and then retain moisture. It might be a good idea to fill the valleys between the tubes. Or am I wrong? Might the entire assembly be covered and protected from moisture infiltration? Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #34 – April 02, 2016, 01:08:01 pm Quote from: nitehawk – April 01, 2016, 11:58:47 pmI noticed two tubes running parallel and touching in one of the above photos. Good place for dirt to settle and then retain moisture. It might be a good idea to fill the valleys between the tubes. Or am I wrong? Might the entire assembly be covered and protected from moisture infiltration?You're right. Everyplace there is a chance to hold water and/or dirt is a problem. We will pay attention to those areas when prepping and painting with Por-15. I should note that the most rusted areas were the ends and particularly the corners. Most of the sides and interior sections had some rust but nothing that was structural. The decision to due the whole frame rather than just the ends was based on not knowing how bad the center was before removing the Filon and wanting to make sure that any metal added was connected to good metal. Making a complete frame was of course much easier than figuring out how to cut and add pieces. Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #35 – April 02, 2016, 02:25:13 pm Quote from: Larry Rubin – April 02, 2016, 01:08:01 pmYou're right. Everyplace there is a chance to hold water and/or dirt is a problem. We will pay attention to those areas when prepping and painting with Por-15. I should note that the most rusted areas were the ends and particularly the corners. Most of the sides and interior sections had some rust but nothing that was structural. The decision to due the whole frame rather than just the ends was based on not knowing how bad the center was before removing the Filon and wanting to make sure that any metal added was connected to good metal. Making a complete frame was of course much easier than figuring out how to cut and add pieces.I would be tempted to find a hot dip galvanizer to do the completed floor frame. Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #36 – April 02, 2016, 07:14:52 pm I've been reading about this and wondered about the cost of stainless steel tubing. You're going to a lot of trouble anyway, why not. Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #37 – April 02, 2016, 09:26:07 pm Stainless tubing is a fair bit heavier but would be a good choice, I wondered about galvanizing but that would mean each tube needs a hole drilled in each end to allow dipping and to coat the inside of the tube. Sealed or capped tubing actually rots from the inside out because during temperature changes the tubing actually sweats inside. Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #38 – April 02, 2016, 09:35:19 pm The "correct" thing to is keep water OUT of the basement sandwich. Leaks/spills in the wet bay is by far the largest culprit here.Yes, there are other sources-- check them on each inspection. They include the mountings for joey beds, hose and power cord reels, etc. Basically anything that can crack and allow water into the basement sandwich. Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #39 – April 02, 2016, 10:29:11 pm Fill with oil and seal Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #40 – April 02, 2016, 10:34:05 pm Sorry just had to look, stainless is heavier. Info from engineers hand book US standard 18ga mild steel 2.00 lb per ft 18ga stainless 2.016 lb per ft 18ga galvanized steel 2.156 per ft 11ga mild steel 5.00 lb per ft 11ga stainless 5.04lb per ft 11ga galvanized 5.15 lb per ftI'm sure that this is counting on coating inside and outside. Just remember that a fast race car has no paint, just ask Smoky.I hope they realize they are adding weight if the new one is all 11ga thickness .125-.119 18ga .0500-.0478I wonder if inside are of 16ga it would be more common .0600-.5875Again sorry had some time on my hands, I've been thinking a lot about our U280 again. Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #41 – April 02, 2016, 11:31:20 pm Here is a picture, for comparison sake of the original tubing that wasn't part of the bulkhead joint, and the stuff I added during my rebuild. I originally thought the tubing on top was 16 gauge, but I saw a parts list for the basement framing on Unicoaches that listed only 18 gauge tubing and 11 gauge tubing. I added approximately 180lbs of steel when I rebuilt my basement framework and used mostly 11 gauge but some 13 gauge tubing, depending on the location as well as some ⅛" angle iron, 3/16" angle iron and ¼" flat stock. The picture shows the relative wall thickness. I cleaned off the burrs from cutting to show the profile.Don Quote Selected 5 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #42 – April 03, 2016, 08:36:00 am With tubing that thin if you wanted to save weight and didn't mind the extra labour you could tig weld the whole thing. On a late model chassis they tried it at a reputable builder it saved around 30 pounds and took almost twice as long to build. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #43 – April 03, 2016, 12:44:08 pm Instead of tubing, one could use angle iron. Then a good paint can be put on it and it will never rust away. Tubing is horrible for corrosion because once the bad stuff gets inside, it's hard to get it out! Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #44 – April 03, 2016, 12:48:42 pm Quote from: krush – April 03, 2016, 12:44:08 pmInstead of tubing, one could use angle iron. Then a good paint can be put on it and it will never rust away. Tubing is horrible for corrosion because once the bad stuff gets inside, it's hard to get it out! My Land Rover had a "ladder frame", open in many places. Living in Maine for a couple of years, the salt roads completely trashed the old dear. Quote Selected 1 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame - progress update Reply #45 – April 03, 2016, 09:00:27 pm On Friday, the frame was delivered to Xtreme. To save a day plus, I painted it this weekend. Have you ever painted an old style steam house radiator? All those old enough to remember them and have been given the honor of painting one, please stand up and take a bow. My wife, Nancy, helping out with the prep.The guys at Bernd's signed their work. The grill is the drain in front of the fuel tank. I got the metal at Nacogdoches A/C and metal fabricators. Kevin there did a great job of cutting the mesh to fit the space. I also got some stainless that he cut to replace the metal at the bulkheads.A finished area - the short pieces line up to the bolts holding the electric and water reels. Quote Selected 12 Likes
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #46 – April 04, 2016, 04:59:58 pm Both of those guys do good work. Pride! Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #47 – April 04, 2016, 05:20:25 pm And Larry? You sure better take Nancy out for a really nice dinner!! Working like she appears and having such a great big smile deserves a dinner!! Quote Selected
Re: rusted bay floor frame Reply #48 – April 04, 2016, 07:23:28 pm Quote from: nitehawk – April 04, 2016, 05:20:25 pmAnd Larry? You sure better take Nancy out for a really nice dinner!! Working like she appears and having such a great big smile deserves a dinner!! One nice dinner??? We are enjoying the best that Nacogdoches has to offer. Quote Selected
Topic: rusted bay floor frame