Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Topic: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!! (Read 7892 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #25 – April 22, 2016, 11:16:51 am

Hmm, my two cents: I founded and ran a high-end company that was prolly bigger than FT. I decided early on that my customer base was the best form of advertising and let it be known: " if any of our product fails due to manufacturing or labor, we will repair or replace it, at no charge, for the life of the system (20-30 years)." My competitors thought I was nuts, but by using the finest parts and most skilled labor, I very seldom had a call-back, and when I did "I'll see you this afternoon and we'll square this away". FT is not the first company to adapt a cavalier attitude towards the end user, but slowly their customer base will erode, and they'll be another "has-been".

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #26 – April 22, 2016, 11:40:35 am

This may be an apples to oranges comparison. But, Newell Coach has no new coaches for sale. All sold. However, they may not build spec coaches. Foretravel has eight new coaches for sale, two of which are 2015 models. Newells cost twice as much as a Foretravel. So, cost is not the reason.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #27 – April 22, 2016, 12:16:00 pm

Well, not to beat a dead horse, but one thought just came to me : We had a large shipment of parts delivered that turned out to be faulty (after installation). I called the factory, explained the problem, they sent a REP to look at the problem, he agreed it was on their nickel, replaced the faulty parts AND told me to keep track of my labor and they would comp that , as well. Guess what, who knows how many hundreds of thousands worth of business I did with them afterwards, where they could have blown me off and I'd have found another supplier.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #28 – April 22, 2016, 12:25:27 pm

OK. So things aren't or didn't go the way they should have or the way you would have liked. It happens! a continual complaint from members who seem to be equally dissatisfied isn't going to change what's already happened. It simply isn't!!! If people are fed up and feel they need to move on then they need to do so. I'm sorry, it just isn't the place to vent after the first complaint. I can only assume that there's going to be a lot of Foretravels up for sale as everyone moves on to something else. Good for us! There, I'm done.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #29 – April 22, 2016, 01:21:42 pm

Quote from: Brad Metzger – April 22, 2016, 07:34:03 am

Forgot to mention , I also did a Newell plant tour . Very impressed . I see some very different think about how to treat customers after the sale . Wish it could have been contagious and spread south . Brad Metzger

5-6 years ago the Newell CEO was routinely on IRV2 answering questions and dispelling rumours. I asked him why they didn't consider a trans retarder. he stated, "Mainly, nobody asked"... Newells have their own common issues with the air pocket doors, for example. I don't think they do the bay AC units anymore (which I thought would be awesome for a SERIOUS solar install). T'were me, I would be spec'ing an ultralight version with wood/vinyl flooring, composite counters, etc. The gaudiness of the older Newells overwhelms me in the same fashion as some of the Prevost conversions.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #30 – April 22, 2016, 01:38:45 pm

I have a 2008 Phenix and have had the PTO problem, I also have had 4 previous Foretravel's. The reality is my coach is going on ten years old. Brad's coach is two years newer. However they don't come with a lifetime warranty. Yes I was upset seeing Brads first post and then having to remove my old PTO and Pump assembly. Replaced just in time. However I find that telling the world how bad Foretravel and their management is on this web site is probably not going to help in the good relationship areas. First was Brad's coach new when he bought it? If so how long does he expect the warranty and good will to last? My expectations were that at 5 years all bets were off on Foretravel helping on things that just happen even if they were production related. If it didn't happen in 60 months then its my dime. Do I relate to Brad's misery over the issues he's had "You Bet". I just hope that he will get things straightened out and not use the forum as a weapon to get that done. I have been a member since 04 and still think the forum is great, and as I said I have great empathy for Brad and his feelings. I just wish he would take them off line. As a side point I don't know Brad but read his off road adventures all the time, I am sure he is a great guy. I have no personal issues with him these are just my opinions.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #31 – April 22, 2016, 02:49:59 pm

To answer that one is easy.-
When the builder/designer of a very expensive piece of machinery that has been maintained at their service facility does NOT tell you of possible expensive problems and a fix, as in a recall which sounds in part to be an Allison issue too, plus any other issues Brad has had, then I guess any one of us would feel very let down and go the next step to vent their frustration. This is normal and expected
I, like many others have been very lucky to have got to know Brad, and regard him now as a good and honest friend who will do everything in his power to help you and share his love for the great outdoors on his toys.
We have stayed at their home and both he and Phyliss are really nice people and have no airs about them in whatever they do. You take them as you see them!! I find some of the comments have been written without knowing this man and they do not understand how this must be really hurting him, because he really believed in FT! Brad was a very successful business man and the handling of his issues have been totally opposite to the way he handled his business-customer first. Brad has worked hard and is in a position to be able to "suck this cost up" but his principles have been damaged by FT's lack of concern I believe.
Brad, I do not for one second blame you for going this route.
On a side note I do know that this PTO problem was also a C Coach issue as my friend in San Carlos had a similar problem on his Magna a few years ago.
JohnH

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #32 – April 22, 2016, 02:57:19 pm

X 1

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #33 – April 22, 2016, 03:11:22 pm

Personally, I always thought of this Forum as a place to openly discuss coach-related issues - the good, bad and the ugly. I don't have near the cash invested in our coach as some of you do, but believe we all benefit from knowing what's happening with these newer coaches because I hope to own one in the future. And I appreciate those who won't sugar coat issues, and also I empathize with someone being so frustrated and expressing same. Let's just hope somehow it can be resolved to Brad's satisfaction.

Chris

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #34 – April 22, 2016, 03:53:43 pm

This is not about Brad ... let's put him a side for one sec. If anything he is making himself very vulnerable by sharing his experience for good of everyone here, that includes FT folks.
" I always thought of this Forum as a place to openly discuss coach-related issues - the good, bad and the ugly. "
I am very grateful for this forum and all its members. My loyalty is probably to this group of people way before to FT brand.
If it wasn't for stories like this good and bad shared here by all you good folks, I would not be owning a FT, yet along a huge diesel pusher. Thank you!

I hope all will turn out what is best for Brad.
As far as FT goes, they will go on with or without few of us, for better or worse, I am sure they know that too.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #35 – April 22, 2016, 04:21:31 pm

Was his coach manufactured around the time when Foretravel was struggling financially? It would make a lot of sense if it were that quality may have suffered at that time, and the company who formerly held quality as the highest priority, struggled to stay in business. It's hard to make a great product if you're not sure that you're going to continue to operate. We've seen it before in other industries.

Are there a few years of marginal coaches that are working their way through that should be avoided. Seems like those early years of the nimbus and IH and Phoenix. I always wondered of those "great recession" years should be avoided.

Thoughts?

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #36 – April 22, 2016, 05:03:09 pm

Quote from: littledubz – April 22, 2016, 04:21:31 pm

Was his coach manufactured around the time when Foretravel was struggling financially? I always wondered of those "great recession" years should be avoided.

I would look at Country Coach, Beaver, Alpenlite, and, especially, Airstream ; They all made quality coaches and had a great rep. When either bad management or bean counters cheapened the product, they went under, and were absorbed by Thor and others, who bought the companies for nickels on the dollar, and throwing whole small towns out of work. To this day, I meet owners of new Airstreams that wish they'd restored their coaches, rather than buying a fresh one. When Beatrice Foods, bought AS, Harley Davidson, AMF in the seventies, they all failed with crappy, cost-reducing ideas. I do NOT suggest anyone who's looking for a Airstream to even think of a coach made in the seventies! In the eighties, AS made pretty good coaches, but from then on, junk. Is FT listening?

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #37 – April 22, 2016, 05:16:35 pm

I mentioned this in another post but I think it bears repeating. Selling high end products in limited quantities to people who can afford them is not normal retailing. In my business I rarely get asked about price, it's all about service. Getting a bad reputation in after sales service is the quickest way to go out of business that I know of. It's a pity that the company is willing to erode it's amazing reputation for quality just to keep the bean counters happy.

Wake up Foretravel management. Get someone in there at the top who knows how to look after the Foretravel customer and set an example to those in the chain of command that this cannot continue.

Keith

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #38 – April 22, 2016, 05:25:17 pm

Brad, you are the second owner, correct? Did they offer any warranty or assistance on the PTO or Leaks? Or has all this been on your nickel?

Please continue hang out here with us whatever the next coach, I love your adventures and stories!

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #39 – April 22, 2016, 05:29:02 pm

Propman et all, I agree this is not about Brad, per se, what I alluded too was his sense of Business acume and the way he dealt with clients in his business, and, then relating it to what he has experienced with FT. Totally opposite ends of the spectrum I think.
Lets face it (hard as it is) over the last few years we have all read Forum Members comments on how they felt things had not been handled well when issues came up with their Coach's and dealing with the "factory"
A quick search will bring up many "threads" on this subject so this is not a new one, that is why to me it is sad. There also seems to be the same one or two owners that have had nothing but good to say about their dealings with FT thru many purchases with them. So, my question to them is "what do you say/do to get your voice listened to and followed? I wonder how many millions of dollars over the years one has to spend to get to this position? Most cannot ( and would not want to) throw away the losses trading in etc to achieve a " warm welcome " at FT.
This is just my humble opinion, and as I do not know much take this with a grain of salt I guess. End of my comments on this issue.
JohnH

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #40 – April 22, 2016, 05:34:17 pm

Quote from: Keith and Joyce – April 22, 2016, 05:16:35 pm

In my business I rarely get asked about price, it's all about service. Wake up Foretravel management.

Bingo! I once went to a "cold call" where the would-be client (who had heard of my reputation of "expensive"),was having a wedding and wanted his site to be primo. I told him we were booked, and I could not possibly get the (not even designed) project done by his time frame. He looked at me and said, "did I ask for a price?" We started the next day. And the "cold call" turned into a life-long relationship and numerous referrals.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #41 – April 22, 2016, 05:40:45 pm

Leaks are unacceptable and roof leaks more so. The lack of notice on the PTO is what bothers me and the fix is not what I would do. It needs an oil bath. I have owned three Foretravels and two Born free coaches. I just sold my 24 foot and since 06 had exact,y two issues to deal with. Simpler coaches just work. It is why whI n I wanted to buy a new FT in 07 I asked for a two slide Nimbus. I was told if I delete a slide it is custom and cost more. I asked for a IFS and a Phenix step. I was told buy a Phenix so I bought a used coach and remodeled it. I am sad to hear this and I am sure it will ruffle feathers.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #42 – April 22, 2016, 05:42:18 pm

Quote from: mike leary – April 22, 2016, 05:34:17 pm

Bingo! I once went to a "cold call" where the would-be client (who had heard of my reputation of "expensive"was having a wedding and wanted his site to be primo. I told him we were booked, and I could not possibly get the (not even designed) project done by his time frame. He looked at me and said, "did I ask for a price?" We started the next day. And the "cold call" turned into a life-long relationship and numerous referrals.

In my business it is never the price either but the service as well.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #43 – April 22, 2016, 05:46:59 pm

This just might answer all questions;

Foretravel sues former owners - The Daily Sentinel: Local News

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #44 – April 22, 2016, 05:56:31 pm

Quote from: John S – April 22, 2016, 05:42:18 pm

In my business it is never the price either but the service as well.

My wife will back me up: Over the years, sitting down to dinner, glass of spirits in hand, phone call comes in, problems. Do I say "we'll put you on the list" or put my fork and glass down and say, "I'll see you in a few minutes"? Yup, every time, even if I could do nothing about it until I could get the crew in tomorrow, they were overjoyed that "Mr Expensive" showed up; that's the whole deal.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #45 – April 22, 2016, 06:16:39 pm

Quote from: propman – April 22, 2016, 03:53:43 pm

As far as FT goes, they will go on with or without few of us, for better or worse, I am sure they know that too.

Your assertion that Foretravel will be able to go on is not consistent with the facts as I observe them.

Trent

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #46 – April 22, 2016, 07:08:50 pm

As one of the new guys on the block, I would hope the good, bad and ugly are welcome. We all have the critical thinking skills to sort out the constant complainer from the legitimate complaint and most things in between. To not discuss the downside is to leave those who may need to know in the dark, this is especially true with safety related issues.

We spent a week or so in the FT campground in March. I was surprised at what I saw during our stay. The delamination problems, rust issues, new owners who had spent two weeks waiting for fixes on delivery of their brand new unit, and side conversations explaining which years were good and which to avoid. The good was the friendships gained that make FT ownership so much fun.

Unfortunately I saw a lot of this during my years of consulting. For family business, which this is no longer, we used to say the third generation turns out the lights. The fire in the belly and beauty, pride, of ownership is lost. The same thing is starting to happen at Northwood as the founder has transitioned.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #47 – April 23, 2016, 12:43:50 am

Quote from: NancyS – April 22, 2016, 05:46:59 pm

This just might answer all questions;

Foretravel sues former owners - The Daily Sentinel: Local News

Wife & I are looking to buy our 1st FT in the next month or three...... But this revelation may limit the year models we choose from...or go look at other mfgs offerings...
sad

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #48 – April 23, 2016, 07:07:23 am

Saddlesore we went through that process last year. We looked at Country Coach, Beaver, Monaco etc. We found that virtually all of the builders had either gone bankrupt, or been acquired by companies that later went bankrupt. We did a "what now" spreadsheet adding to the list the most expensive failures of that brands construction and separate area for those things needing to be done on coaches of their age. For example, we learned about bulkheads on FT, paint and slide issues on Country Coach etc.

In the end, we elected to go with the 36 270 97 FT. It was inspected by Brett. We,so far, are within budget but have put slightly more into it than we paid for it. But with the exception of the steering box it was preventative or cosmetic work. A big plus has been the ability to take the unit to the factory for coach work. We found techs who have 20-30 years with the company and were well versed on the years. They did mods etc for us that were excellent. What I learned from them is there really are prime years, as you note, for these coaches.

There is also a cottage industry that has grown up in Nac around these coaches making service much easier to locate and a service force available. Much more difficult with the other brands. A word of caution on these shops, make sure the small shops stay in their own lane. If they specialize use that specialty, for example there is an upholsterer that does wonderful upholstery but wants to do more and that work is at the level of a careless weekend hobby.

We are now at 4 months and about 5,500 miles. It has been a steep learning curve but with the factory still operating a maintenance facility and the surrounding vendors we would make the same decision. It is for me the 57 Chevy of coaches. Don't be discouraged be informed. Best wishes with your purchase.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #49 – April 23, 2016, 07:52:32 am

Dear Brad,

Sorry to hear about you problem. I had the same thing happened to me last year with Foretravel service. I am still waiting for a courtesy call from L.R. After the repair was done I left FT and drove to Washington state. Washing my FT I found in the same place that I had repaired by FT originally, the crack was back again. Called FT they said bring it back. So I did at my own expense. ( fuel and lodging)

To those of you do not like to here about the poor service FT I am sorry but this forum is to express our views good or bad.

Approximately one year ago I made an appointment at the local service center for May 4, 2015 with a service advisor (We'll call him LL). The reason for the appointment was the coach (A 2004 U320) had delamination caused by cracking in the cape, which in my opinion is a very poor design. Many coaches by this manufacturer have this cap problem. The quote to complete the work, including repainting the repair, was a week and a half.

When I arrived at repair shop on May 4, I was provided a quote that the fiberglass work would take about 3 ½ days. At the end of 3 ½ days, the technician advised he would need an extra 1 ½ days to complete the work, which I said that would be ok. The fiberglass work was completed in 4 ½ days, which means we now have to have the repair painted. On the following Monday, May 11, the coach went into the paint shop for repainting. On May 13we were notified that the paint was complete, and we could come pick up the coach. We arrived on May 13 to pick up the coach however upon inspection we noticed there were two issues:

· The new color did not match

· Overspray could be found over the back end of the coach.

After the inspection, we immediately called our service adviser (LL). LL, the service manager (We'll call him MH), and the painter (We'll call him J) came out to look at the paint job, of which all players agreed the color was mismatched, which resulted in yet another trip to the paint shop. At this point we are starting week three, which is a week and a half longer than the original quote, and now beginning to impact my personal schedule.

To give you an idea on my schedule, we had arrangements to be in Phoenix on May 19th to visit friends, and had also purchased airline tickets to fly back east for the Indianapolis 500, which were nonrefundable. Based on the new schedule for repainting, I was forced to cancel the airline tickets due to the need for the coach to be repainted. We also endured extra nights at a hotel while the work was being done.

We asked the VP of Operations (We'll call him DP) if he could cover some of the extra motel days and the flight cancellation (Resulting from the bad paint job). The official company response was they would not adjust the cost of the repair to compensate for my additional out-of-pocket expense caused by the delays/oversight, however they would a $250 labor credit for our inconvenience. The original cost of the repair was over $5,000 so to them a $250 credit is just a drop in the bucket, and is not even a fraction of the additional out-of-pocket expense incurred due to the additional time the coach was in the shop.

It is now June 2 and I am still awaiting for my coach to be completed. I have been an RVer since the early 80s (Full time for over 10 year), of which I have owned 7 RVs. The reason we selected this brand was its long-term sustainability for full-time RVing, however I have to admit I have spent more on repairs on this motor home than the other RVs put together. Based on this, along with the extremely poor customer service provided, I would say this company has lost a future customer.

The reason for sending this to all of you is to give you a heads up. If you're in the market for a new coach, or looking to have repairs to your existing coach, be aware of the service you may receive from this manufacturer. Thank you.

Karl Brenneman

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