Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Topic: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!! (Read 7892 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #50 – April 23, 2016, 09:03:31 am

I didn't think I was the only one that felt was wrongly done , but-----gee ,---there is way more stuff going on than I thought . Have received lots on E-mail from different folks that are cautious about posting what happened to them with issues along these lines . Sad day for all of us to be sure . I tried my best to get the president to make things right , no dice , and that is what got this whole thing in gear . I feel there is more to come , sadly but will come . Brad Metzger

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #51 – April 23, 2016, 09:13:48 am

I do think this needs to be kept in perspective for those researching future used coaches that there were years when they made and serviced some of, if not the best coaches on the road.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #52 – April 23, 2016, 09:23:02 am

Quote from: bobnkathy – April 23, 2016, 07:45:00 am

I find it interesting that posts are locked quite often when they go off topic. Tell me- is bashing Foretravel not a topic that seems to fit "going off topic"?

A) "Bashing" is complaining without factual back up. If a post is hearsay (I heard some guy I don't know had bad service) or non-factual ("I think I got bad service because I have brown eyes and the tech/manager/cleaning people seem to only like people with blue eyes"), those are not allowed. Members posting factual first-person experiences are permitted as this is not "bashing". While we all like to read of good experiences, all experiences make for a complete picture.

B) This topic is about service at Foretravel. How is that "off-topic" in a forum dedicated to those coaches?

It is important to understand this is an independent forum whose purpose is to be a resource for the owners of or people interested in Foretravel motorhomes. It is not affiliated in any way with any commercial enterprise. It is volunteer-owned, run, and paid for and the site owners receive no compensation or consideration from any businesses or individuals, including our commercial members. In fact, the owners of the site have repeatedly been put in the unpleasant situation of being confronted and asked to explain what others post here that we are neither responsible for nor control. It is one of the many reasons the site owners are now, and have been for over a year, simply the landlords who pay the hosting costs and ensure the site is functional.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #53 – April 23, 2016, 09:38:10 am

The whole thing here is , I was a Foretravel guy , thru and thru , and Foretravel new it , and they still did to me what they did !! How about someone going into this blind not knowing any thing about any of this . ? Maybe this just might put folks on the alert to go ahead and do what ever but do it with their eyes wide open . The effort here is not to kill Foretravel . I know the drill real well . How about the folks out there with the same PTO set up that is going to let them stranded on the side of the road

and they have not been notified that this is going to happen and needs to be fixed ?? Bad, bad , non caring about your customers . The slippery slope is not up . A change of mind set is needed here fairly soon . Brad Metzger

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #54 – April 23, 2016, 09:42:43 am

Having never bought a motorhome that I didn't do all repairs myself, I am only able to compare what experience I have had with Monaco customer service getting parts or information to my experience with Foretravel. Night and day, when I called Monaco for schematics or help with issues I was told my 1996 was too old for the information I needed. When I called Foretravel I was given information on all issues with a call back or live. Maybe comparing a 1996 Monaco to a 1999 Foretravel is a date issue I don't know. I never called support for the '81 as all parts I ever needed were generic and available.
If I were paying for a new or late model coach and had the same issues as Brad and others I would be as unhappy as them. But I probably have my last coach with the '99 and still love the way it is mechanic friendly for repairs, you don't want to get under the dash on a 1996 Monaco Signature.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #55 – April 23, 2016, 09:57:04 am

While I'm continuing my search for my first motorhome and still attempting to figure out if buying my last coach first is a good idea or just an exercise in futility, I would like to thank Brad for bringing his first-hand situation to light.

A newer, pre-owned or even a new Foretravel is still on my radar, but from an outsider's view, it seems that the newer coaches simply aren't built to the same quality control standards as the older models. As it's plain to see on FF, it seems that owners of the older "U" models seem to be the most satisfied and the ones that are keeping the Foretravel brand alive. Yes, this observation is from a non-motorhome-owner who is still peering-in from the outside and I can only hope that Foretravel fully understands the value this forum brings to its brand.

What bothers me the most from Brad's post is the blind eye the factory seems to be giving to the importance of customer service. This issue is not isolated to Foretravel, but seems to have become somewhat of the norm among numerous other manufacturers as well. Yes, in this day and age of the instant information found within online forums, things are different than yesteryear. When someone with the credentials as Brad, who has been helpful to so many current and potential Foretravel owners (including myself), hits his breaking point due to a situation that seems to have been caused by poor quality control, it does have an effect on those of us who are thinking of purchasing this brand.

So, I'll be one to thank Brad for this post and can only hope that Foretravel Management reads this thread and understands there's most likely many potential purchasers who may only lurk and not post and these situations do have an affect on a future purchasing decision. I hope FT fully understands that having a strong reputation for supporting its current customers, having solid quality control methods throughout the manufacturing and service/repair process and delivering timely customer service, that at least to some of us, is an important factor.

In any business, reputation is everything. And that's something that's earned over time and can be destroyed quickly. Just take a look at VW and you'll understand my point. When a reputation becomes diminished, like it did with Audi in the 1970's, it can take decades to rebuild trust. Let's face it, economies are cyclical and while it's been a roller coaster ride and currently on an upswing, like we learned just a decade ago, when the ride starts heading downhill, only the strongest will survive.

I could go on and discuss my opinion of where the weak link of the motorhome industry is located, but that would be going off topic and that's not my intention or appropriate for "Brad's" discussion.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #56 – April 23, 2016, 10:12:11 am

I believe that Foretravel is having financial difficulties. So, to help a Foretravel owner of a coach out of warranty, Foretravel is afraid that it would open a floodgate of claims and they simply do not have the resources to afford that. A good example it to simply try and get the service department to help with repairs that should be covered by a service warranty contract that is sold to coach buyers by Foretravel at the time of purchase. My fuel lift pump went bad. Clearly a warranted repair. The warranty company, based on bad explanations by the Foretravel service department, declined the claim. After talking to the VP of Operations, Foretravel lowered the cost of the repair from $1,000 to $600. The service department would do nothing until I went over their head to Foretravel management. After Foretravel management went to the regional rep for the warranty service, the warranty company finally reimbursed me for the repair. This took more than two days of our parking in the Foretravel campground. I believe all of this reluctance to help owners is because Foretravel simply does not have the financial resources to extend a good helping hand to owners when they are not legally bound to do so.
Larry

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #57 – April 23, 2016, 10:23:43 am

Nothing is perfect, but the PTO issue really sticks in my craw. The fact that there is a proactive solution that doesn't break the bank makes it even worse.

Were I in the same situation and out of warranty I would appreciate notification and options.

This list serves as an alternate avenue for that sort of notice.
I feel sorry for those that own Foretravels and aren't here. I don't participate the way I used to but I read every post. There was a time after the MOT-FOT debacle where this sort of post WOULD BE shut down.
Whether the factory recognizes it our not we are a bellwether for the state of the company. We support it and promote it because we believe in it - and we shake our fists when they don't do right. I can understand if they don't like it but they should listen.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #58 – April 23, 2016, 10:30:32 am

I was on the phone yesterday with the Motorcade office at Foretravel. After finishing my Motorcade business, I ask if they read this forum at FT. The answer was a cautious ...yes. I then asked if she had seen Brad's post. The answer was OH YES. She has immediately taken it to James, who sent a message to LR, who will see it on his next day there. Hopefully something good will come of this.

By the way, I couldn't be happier than I am with my Foretravel, my third motor home in 30+ years. I hope this one lasts forever, but if not, wouldn't hesitate to buy another, any vintage. Just not over 40 feet long.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #59 – April 23, 2016, 10:35:46 am

Quote from: Dave Head – April 23, 2016, 10:23:43 am

Nothing is perfect, but the PTO issue really sticks in my craw. The fact that there is a proactive solution that doesn't break the bank makes it even worse.

Were I in the same situation and out of warranty I would appreciate notification and options.

This list serves as an alternate avenue for that sort of notice.
I feel sorry for those that own Foretravels and aren't here. I don't participate the way I used to but I read every post. There was a time after the MOT-FOT debacle where this sort of post WOULD BE shut down.
Whether the factory recognizes it our not we are a bellwether for the state of the company. We support it and promote it because we believe in it - and we shake our fists when they don't do right. I can understand if they don't like it but they should listen.

I agree. There is no excuse for FOT not notifying owners of the PTO issue and the simple fix. Unfortunately, FOT has never been that good at communicating.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #60 – April 23, 2016, 10:44:02 am

I hope everyone can see that this is not about FT coaches specifically but more about the management and policies at FOT regarding coach and customer service. There is no doubt that a great customer oriented business attracts and keeps customers. We all want FT to survive. We all hope they get the message and improve. In the mean time there are other choices for service, repair, paint, remodel and buying your first or last coach and any one in between.

Every coach is going to suffer some problem along the way. Some are major issues that take time to fix and can be very inconvenient. Most are just things that need to get fixed. Age and miles require maintenance, repair, replacement and rehab. Ask my shoulder. Some years seemed to have more issues than other. It seemed to take the first year or two after major change or new model to work out unintended consequences. Buy a FT or SOB knowing that they will require work and money to maintain and operate. Do your homework and be the most knowledgeable buyer and owner you can be.

It is tough to see Brad feeling that FT is not meeting his expectations. He is not alone there. When we have been together he told me many times that the Phenix was going to be his last coach. I know he had some problems with it but I thought that overall it was working OK. He just likes to play well. Whatever you have next time we meet, Brad, it is the toys and fellowship that matter.

Roger

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #61 – April 23, 2016, 10:52:55 am

Quote from: Dave Head – April 23, 2016, 10:23:43 am

Nothing is perfect, but the PTO issue really sticks in my craw. The fact that there is a proactive solution that doesn't break the bank makes it even worse.

Yes, the PTO issue is small dollars in my opinion and would have gone a long ways to build brand loyalty. I got under my unit, separated the PTO from the trans and lubed the spline. It only takes about 2 hours with the correct tools and about 3 oz of grease. When Brad brought this situation up, a year ago, I called FOT and they new the exact years and build numbers that have the dry PTO. When I took mine apart it was evident it would have failed no doubt, as it was showing signs of wear and gear stripping.

Brad putting his experience on this board saved me from being stranded on the side of a road. I lost a lot of faith in FOT too over this situation. Simply informing me would have gone a long way.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #62 – April 23, 2016, 12:21:16 pm

We were parked next to a nice couple with a fairly new SOB coach. Had something break in the rear suspension and barely got it under control and off the road. He contacted the factory, who informed him that there was a recall on the suspension, which the PO had ignored. The factory said they would not cover it, since it was now out of warranty and had a transferred owner. Many CBs later, he got it fixed, but you can bet the mfr. will never get a referral from that guy!

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #63 – April 23, 2016, 12:31:42 pm

Off topic posts will be deleted .

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #64 – April 23, 2016, 12:32:30 pm

...two cents more: after my "less than stellar" FOT service dept. experience (2 different service advisers with a two different time frames/schedules/stories, etc.) on a Friday afternoon, late October 2015, I reluctantly left the coach at FOT & flew out Saturday, but 1st thing Monday morning had MOT go pick up my coach, then called FOT to cancel service. Finished up at MOT & re-scheduled (headlight conversion) for Xtreme this August....lot of people later said, "good, should have gone to Xtreme in the 1st place."

Anyway, both service advisers told me 2 different scenarios, delaying work & causing me to have to make more hotel reservations, etc....airline ticket non-refundable, etc. Promises not kept, basically....FOT will not get anymore of my business til they "get their poop together" in the service dept. I wasn't all that big a spender anyway, so no great loss I'm sure.

Just finished up a tech session at this current rally & one gentleman said (he's had a lot of experience with the FOT service dept.) it seemed to him that the service people & the management people don't communicate at all.....like 2 separate companies....

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #65 – April 23, 2016, 01:07:31 pm

Quote from: Michelle – April 23, 2016, 09:23:02 am

A) "Bashing" is complaining without factual back up. If a post is hearsay (I heard some guy I don't know had bad service) or non-factual ("I think I got bad service because I have brown eyes and the tech/manager/cleaning people seem to only like people with blue eyes"), those are not allowed. Members posting factual first-person experiences are permitted as this is not "bashing". While we all like to read of good experiences, all experiences make for a complete picture.

B) This topic is about service at Foretravel. How is that "off-topic" in a forum dedicated to those coaches?

It is important to understand this is an independent forum whose purpose is to be a resource for the owners of or people interested in Foretravel motorhomes. It is not affiliated in any way with any commercial enterprise. It is volunteer-owned, run, and paid for and the site owners receive no compensation or consideration from any businesses or individuals, including our commercial members. In fact, the owners of the site have repeatedly been put in the unpleasant situation of being confronted and asked to explain what others post here that we are neither responsible for nor control. It is one of the many reasons the site owners are now, and have been for over a year, simply the landlords who pay the hosting costs and ensure the site is functional.

I find this interesting how quick we are to defend that bashing Foretravel is ok in this forum. That is the number one reason why I have heard so many people reluctant to join this forum. The owners of newer rigs are not ready nor do they want to hear how bad Foretravels are now and how great they were 15 years ago.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #66 – April 23, 2016, 01:10:29 pm

This thread has legs...

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #67 – April 23, 2016, 01:25:50 pm

Quote from: bobnkathy – April 23, 2016, 01:07:31 pm

I find this interesting how quick we are to defend that bashing Foretravel is ok in this forum. That is the number one reason why I have heard so many people reluctant to join this forum. The owners of newer rigs are not ready nor do they want to hear how bad Foretravels are now and how great they were 15 years ago.

There were some newer owners posting in this thread that they were happy to find out about possible failures in order to prevent them.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #68 – April 23, 2016, 01:29:26 pm

Quote from: bobnkathy – April 23, 2016, 01:07:31 pm

I find this interesting how quick we are to defend that bashing Foretravel is ok in this forum. That is the number one reason why I have heard so many people reluctant to join this forum. The owners of newer rigs are not ready nor do they want to hear how bad Foretravels are now and how great they were 15 years ago.

I'm going to have to kindly disagree with the quoted post on this matter as I don't consider honest information to be bashing. It is what it is. As long as information is disseminated in an honest manner, it can be very helpful to others.

Let's face it, whether it's a pre-owned or new coach, these things are expensive to purchase and can be time consuming and costly to maintain. In this day and age, it seems that many potential buyers of a specific brand will take the time to perform due diligence to learn the issues faced by current owners. All products have issues and the difference is how these issues are handled.

To me, this is the value of a forum of this type that tells things like they are and doesn't sugar coat things and I'm appreciative of the management of this site to allow these types of discussions. The good news is that manufacturers, at any time, can check user forums and learn of possible issues that could be adversely affecting the enjoyment of their recreational products. The factory should be grateful this forum exists as it provides feedback that can be used to make things better.

It's the decision of the factory management if they choose to address issues that surface and change current methods to raise the bar of the customer's experience.

The only thing I'll add is that, while this is not isolated to FT, I'm miffed when a product has a known potential issue that can be solved with a service and the factory does not take the effort to contact current owners to inform them of the problem. Even if it's out of warranty, just having the notification via email could save the current owner a lot of future headaches.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #69 – April 23, 2016, 01:45:37 pm

I have often posted about our experiences at Foretravel. Our experiences with the service department and especially the remodel department have always been positive. On the few occasions where we had an issue that merited discussion and negotiation, we always felt we were "heard" and a satisfactory outcome was achieved. That being said ... our newest coach is a 2002 U320. We are at the top end of our ability to deal with complicated machinery and our best repair tools are a credit card and a telephone. Whenever I had a need to reach out to the Technical assistance and Mr Triana, we promptly got a callback. Of course, we pay the "enhanced fee" for our membership for that luxury, but even before that little fee was required, I was never left hanging. I can't speak to the financial issues that may or may not be affecting the Foretravel company. But I can express the opinion that if Foretravel would begin rolling out U320 coaches again, they would still be superior to almost all the other brands on the road today. Leave the Phenixes and the IH-45s where they are. Just go back to the one that really gets you down the road.

There is no one that I give any greater credibility to than Brad Metzger. He is not prone to exaggeration or fabrication and has repeatedly praised, justified and clarified issues that have had others questioning the Foretravel brand. Karl Brenneman is another quiet guy who keeps his own counsel most of the time, but when the need arises can be counted on to give the true facts and not exaggerate or bias the issue.

We all know that these are exceptionally fine machines ... and for the present management to fail to address issues to the best of their ability with loyal customers is an error in judgement, in my opinion. A previous poster put up a link to an article giving details of a lawsuit between Foretravel and the Fore family that goes back to the time of the sale of the company and a great many allegations of shady maneuvers by the sellers. There may be a great deal more behind the scenes that we will never be privy to ... but you still have to maintain loyalty with your customer base by doing the right thing when the time arises. Honesty IS the best policy ... not "Geez .. I hope they don't find out"!!

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #70 – April 23, 2016, 02:14:56 pm

Most people are aware that with exactly the same quality (quality of components and quality of construction) the more complex the machine the more things that can fail. Said another way, if it ain't there, it can't cause a breakdown.

Whether the later model substantial increase in complexity is truly market driven or is a result of perceived market demand might be an interesting (separate) discussion.

Clearly, current product are a substantial departure from older product. That doesn't make them good or bad, just different with many more components that can fail.

And, those who want/need all the bells and whistles need to be aware of that. Foretravel is NOT different in this regard than other high-end custom/semi-custom motorhomes.

Mercedes when through the same thing a decade ago as the complexity of their vehicle increased exponentially. Can recall a number of years where Consumer Report's statistical reports had MB in the lower half of all vehicles sold in terms of reliability.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #71 – April 23, 2016, 02:23:17 pm

Quote from: Roger & Susan in Home2 – April 23, 2016, 10:44:02 am

I hope everyone can see that this is not about FT coaches specifically but more about the management and policies at FOT regarding coach and customer service. There is no doubt that a great customer oriented business attracts and keeps customers. We all want FT to survive. We all hope they get the message and improve. In the mean time there are other choices for service, repair, paint, remodel and buying your first or last coach and any one in between.

Every coach is going to suffer some problem along the way. Some are major issues that take time to fix and can be very inconvenient. Most are just things that need to get fixed. Age and miles require maintenance, repair, replacement and rehab. Ask my shoulder. Some years seemed to have more issues than other. It seemed to take the first year or two after major change or new model to work out unintended consequences. Buy a FT or SOB knowing that they will require work and money to maintain and operate. Do your homework and be the most knowledgeable buyer and owner you can be.

It is tough to see Brad feeling that FT is not meeting his expectations. He is not alone there. When we have been together he told me many times that the Phenix was going to be his last coach. I know he had some problems with it but I thought that overall it was working OK. He just likes to play well. Whatever you have next time we meet, Brad, it is the toys and fellowship that matter.

Roger

I think I know what SOB translates to in our real world - but, will someone please translate it here for me? Another example of what I asked about when I wanted to know if we had a glossery on the forum....

Jim & Thanks much!

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #72 – April 23, 2016, 02:25:44 pm

Quote from: Jim Sizemore – April 23, 2016, 02:23:17 pm

I think I know what SOB translates to in our real world - but, will someone please translate it here for me? Another example of what I asked about when I wanted to know if we had a glossery on the forum....

Jim & Thanks much!

...some other brand.....i.e. anything but a Foretravel....I had to ask somebody the same question when I first joined the forum, who knew?

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #73 – April 23, 2016, 04:11:12 pm

Quote from: Jim Sizemore – April 23, 2016, 02:23:17 pm

I think I know what SOB translates to in our real world - but, will someone please translate it here for me? Another example of what I asked about when I wanted to know if we had a glossery on the forum...

In case you haven't found it or been pointed at it, this is the closest we have to a glossary:

RV Abbreviations, Acronyms and Initialisms

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #74 – April 23, 2016, 08:06:08 pm

Quote from: bobnkathy – April 23, 2016, 01:07:31 pm

I find this interesting how quick we are to defend that bashing Foretravel is ok in this forum. That is the number one reason why I have heard so many people reluctant to join this forum. The owners of newer rigs are not ready nor do they want to hear how bad Foretravels are now and how great they were 15 years ago.

I will not call this bashing but a review of his situation, experiences and FT response. This forum allows people to exchange ideas, information and experiences and focuses around Foretravel coaches. The internet and forums like this allow owners to share information and it allows all of us to learn from them. Service and customer interaction done at FT and how they choose to interact with their owners and customers is their business, but in this connected world customers sometimes relay their experiences on here. In todays internet age a company has to worry about their internet presence and reviews as well as those who are in front of them. I for one am interested in what Brad posted about his experiences and am also interested in how FT responded.

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