Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Topic: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!! (Read 7892 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #75 – April 23, 2016, 08:08:47 pm

Quote from: John S – April 23, 2016, 08:06:08 pm

I will not call this bashing but a review of his situation, experiences and FT response. This forum allows people to exchange ideas, information and experiences and focuses around Foretravel coaches. The internet and forums like this allow owners to share information and it allows all of us to learn from them. Service and customer interaction done at FT and how they choose to interact with their owners and customers is their business but in this connected world customers sometimes relay their experiences on here. In todays internet age a company has to worry about their internet presence and reviews as well as those who are in front of them. I for one am interested in what Brad posted about his experiences and am also interested in how FT responded.

Lets set the record straight. Foretravel repair work as well as their paint shop is really in need of talented folks. Too many of the old timers gone and young bucks there. The last paint repair work and delamination that was repaired about three years ago at Foretravel failed already. The entire paint on the entire coach is crazing and in need of a total repaint job. The last place I would take the coach for repair would be back to the plant. Way over priced, will not quote you a price and stick with it, work done by low skilled workers, and an attitude that we should be grateful they are there. Naturally, the last and only coach I ever intend to buy from Foretravel. Thank God it has a Cummins and Allison which was never touched by the folks at the plant.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #76 – April 23, 2016, 08:28:58 pm

Did I just read a 180 deg change or what

??
JohnH

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #77 – April 23, 2016, 08:52:34 pm

Great thread, covers various aspects, seems about all has been said that can be UNLESS FOT replies. And appreciate Carol's notation of Brad and the other person posting intentions and care with it.

BTW....on just general service, there is competition available if service is not handled well wherever you go. Usually that leads to improvements.

In reading the frustration about being uninformed of the issue and serious consequences......Do we have a list of common issues, major ones, as worthy of recall, such as the lube PTO matter?

(I think I asked such some time ago and it judged not practical....maybe a good reason to not try that. We can get there for a buyer simply by them asking on the Forum, "I am about to buy a year model U -, any pros/cons?" but that does not help in the same manner as a data base would)

example....I was thinking about a certain coach and a member told me just to be sure to check on the PTO.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #78 – April 23, 2016, 10:09:00 pm

I was looking at a very nice 07 Nimbus 42 on the MOT website - Wonder if it has the PTO.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #79 – April 23, 2016, 10:38:22 pm

Quote from: Dave Head – April 23, 2016, 10:09:00 pm

I was looking at a very nice 07 Nimbus 42 on the MOT website - Wonder if it has the PTO.

FT would know, if you have the build number Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure) They know exactly which coaches are involved. If you aren't the owner of record I don't know what information they can share.

If the coach you are looking at has an ISL it might fall into the "80 coaches originally had the non-greasable shaft. 18 involved ISL engines that have not indicated a service life problem." I do not know what that statement means nor how to interpret it.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #80 – April 24, 2016, 12:04:21 am

Quote from: Dave Head – April 23, 2016, 10:09:00 pm

I was looking at a very nice 07 Nimbus 42 on the MOT website - Wonder if it has the PTO.

Watch out for many issues with the 2007 Nimbus year. Paint issues on most. Overheating because of poor setup with fan system. Delamination issues where front or rear cap meets the side body. Also delamination issues around the driver's window area. The entire control unit for the drivers air conditioner, heat unit is no longer available, front tv will fail if still in wood cabinet because it was not vented, if the coach has the old seals in the slide out they will fail, muffler system has a tendency to move around and drop off, villa couch rips easily, easy chair worthless, tiles on floor crack easily, drivers seat is not aligned with steering wheel - yes, you site to the side of the steering wheel - done because seat would not turn around otherwise, fluorescent lights in cabinets worthless, rear axles seals will fail and need replacing, underpowered if 400 ISL, if ISL engine there was a very critical recall, poor outside step, and the list goes on. I would pass on a 2007 Nimbus no matter how good it looks.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #81 – April 24, 2016, 07:44:13 am

Woke up this morning to find my mail box loaded . The thing that jumps out in this mail is , --there are a bunch of folks out there that are now aware of the PTO thing and are worried about failure on the road . I was thanked for the notice for doing the posting . I do not claim to be any kind of expert on this subject , just on the receiving end of the failure and the learning that goes with it . There are ( 9 ) people in my mail box that have the same set up as mine that have not failed yet . The most millage on them was 53.000 miles . Some folks don't travel as much as I do , so they will not experience it for a while . All this post did was open the box and allow people that read this forum to do something about what they didn't know about previously . How else could they find out about it . ? Brads Metzger

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #82 – April 24, 2016, 08:30:38 am

Quote from: Brad Metzger – April 24, 2016, 07:44:13 am

Woke up this morning to find my mail box loaded . The thing that jumps out in this mail is , --there are a bunch of folks out there that are now aware of the PTO thing and are worried about failure on the road . I was thanked for the notice for doing the posting . I do not claim to be any kind of expert on this subject , just on the receiving end of the failure and the learning that goes with it . There are ( 9 ) people in my mail box that have the same set up as mine that have not failed yet . The most millage on them was 53.000 miles . Some folks don't travel as much as I do , so they will not experience it for a while . All this post did was open the box and allow people that read this forum to do something about what they didn't know about previously . How else could they find out about it . ? Brads Metzger

Brad, your post illustrates the point that Foretravel does know about various problems with their coaches but decides not to take action like notifying the owners of a potential problem, This is not unique to just your model. The Nimbus series of 2007 was plagued with fiberglass issues and poor sealing of end caps with the side of the body. Yes, they would fix it if the coach was under warranty. But outside warranty, then that was a different matter. At first, back in 2008 and 2009, the plant did attempt to repair it free of charge but their paint shop could not really properly handle the work. No wonder since they were the ones in the first place that painted the coach. Afterwards in 2010, you were left to defend for yourself with Triana being the one to convince that something needed to be done with the owner footing for at least half of the bill. However, the work done even at that time was not good and subject to fail yet again. The point is we have a company here trying to survive and working on repairing past consumer issues on their dime can not be afforded. The policy seems to be to say nothing and handle all complaints from the consumer on a need to know basis and a one to one basis. I would also say this policy seems to be prevalent in the industry as well. It is consumer be aware and people like yourself who bring out a potential dangerous problem can really help others who might find themselves in a similar situation.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #83 – April 24, 2016, 10:49:13 pm

The solution for me is to just buy a boat instead of my next coach I think

The thing that really strikes me is that we're talking about an $800 fix. That is *nothing* in the grand scheme of things. If a company wouldn't fess up that their owners are going to need to spend some money because of some omission in engineering what worse thing would they hide? I'd bet every owner of one of these coaches has SOME money set aside to deal with these things and would sincerely appreciate the notification. That's not a free repair. That's not a pricey thing to do.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #84 – April 25, 2016, 07:03:22 am

Quote from: Mark D – April 24, 2016, 10:49:13 pm

The thing that really strikes me is that we're talking about an $800 fix. That is *nothing* in the grand scheme of things.

That's my thinking, as well. I think it only makes sense to notify owners to make sure they're aware of the situation. Then, I believe it's a good business practice for the company to either pay the full cost of the retrofit or to at least pay 50% of the cost as a goodwill gesture. Proactive notification and some offer of financial compensation go a long way toward maintaining (and building) a good customer base.

Re: Am driving my last Foretrave

Reply #85 – April 25, 2016, 09:03:46 am

quote author=Michelle link=msg=230295 date=1461455752]
Here is the original information. It is 80 coaches, not 19

Quote from: esaulten - 2 days ago

I was told there were 19 Phenix coaches that had a potential problem. Many have been updated with new Zirk greasable shaft. Wet kit not usable on Foretravels.

Here is the original information. It is 80 coaches, not 19

Quote from: brrving - A year ago
I requested some additional information from James T. and he promptly replied with the following. It appears FT was on top of this and had a warranty plan in place to assist owners.

Excerpt from email:
___________________________________
According to our records there are 80 coaches that have the PTO for the hydraulic pump on certain Foretravel Motorcoaches involving Phenix and Nimbus model years 2007-2010.

When we were aware of the potential problem we established 4 levels of service policy for both pre- and post- warranty expiration for our owners with these non-greasable shafts.
· 80 coaches originally had the non-greasable shaft.
· 18 involved ISL engines that have not indicated a service life problem.
· 34 in that unit range have had greasable shafts installed post production.
· Some have had in excess of 70,000 miles without failure.
· 28 PTOs could still be suspect.
· Inspections are still recommended and shafts with fittings greased per our original service bulletin dated 8/18/2011.

Note: Unlike other motorhome manufacturers our pump is for cooling only and does not affect the separate steering pump operation.

Sincerely,
James [Triana]

Break down on I-10 (fan pump failure)

[/quote]

Please do some fact checking before making statements that are based on assumptions. MIchelle posted this on another parallel thread quoting others with direct knowledge and a copy of an email from James Triana. The Service Bulletin on this PTO issue is dated 8/18/2011.

Should FT sent a letter to all 80 owners? It would have been the right thing to do. As of at least a year ago there were 34 out of 80 that may need to be inspected and fixed. How many of those coaches still belong to the original owner?

Many got the message a little over a year ago when Brad had his fail. It looks like from Brad's earlier post that maybe nine more (based on PMs to him) now know as well.

The Forum can be an effective way to let owners know when there is a service or mechanical issue that other should know about and take action as they see fit. If that was the point of this thread then it seems as though it has become somewhat frayed and fuzzy.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #86 – April 25, 2016, 12:47:22 pm

Update: After online research, talking to Chris and Brad (thanks to both for their time) this is what I found out so far. Chelsea (PTO manufacturer) sells a field conversion kit to a greaseable unit for approx $300. You have to remove the PTO, remove existing shaft/bearing and replace the shaft/pressure fit the new bearings etc. Not a back yard mechanic type job. Not as simple as installing a zerk fitting.

Just left a v/m for Drew (VP of FT) to discuss my situation. As stated FT had a service bulletin in 2011 which I as an original owner never got. The irony is I was at the factory in 2011 and 2013 (doing updates/remodeling over $19K spent) and never was told about the 2011 bulletin and that they needed to inspect my PTO splines/shaft since I was there.

Wil give an update after I talk to Drew.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #87 – April 25, 2016, 01:46:36 pm

I will be interested in seeing the response. I would think there needs to be a relief port of some sort so when pumping new grease in some can come out too.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #88 – April 25, 2016, 02:59:14 pm

The more I think about this the more ticked off I get. And I already spent the time on my own to mitigate this situation. BUT, how does a manufacturer allow 30+ RVs to continue to be on the road with a known issue that "will" happen. Not "if" it will happen.
When this failure occurs, the coach will shut down. Now you are very likely on the side of the road (we all know these machine seldom fail when most convenient) with cars passing by at 70mph trying to figure what happened. How can this not be considered a safety issue at some level?
You then need a tow truck to come get you and bring you into a shop somewhere. So, lots of lost time and money. For an $800.00 part and situation that could be mitigated with 3oz of grease and about 2 hours of work.

I'm getting

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #89 – April 25, 2016, 03:11:59 pm

Quote from: John S – April 25, 2016, 01:46:36 pm

I will be interested in seeing the response. I would think there needs to be a relief port of some sort so when pumping new grease in some can come out too.

I spoke with Chelsea and there is a weep hole in the flange for the old grease to escape. Plus each time you re-grease you only do about an oz.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #90 – April 25, 2016, 03:15:13 pm

That is great to know.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #91 – April 25, 2016, 03:17:00 pm

Service bulletin ------------wow , when I returned from Arizona after the PTO event , I ask Lyle ,why wasn't there some sort of notification on this ? His reply , I think I did a memo on that . I said , I didn't get any notice on it . He said it went to the service department . Don't know what become of all that but you see how it came down . Brad Metzger

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #92 – April 25, 2016, 06:54:05 pm

Just talked to Drew. We had a good conversation. He said he would do some research and get back to me.

My position is FT is not responsible for a free replacement but they are responsible for a percentage of it. Free would be betterment but I have gotten 54K miles of use out of mine so far. As stated earlier they knew these PTO's were failing, issued a service bulletin and stop using the non greaseable PTO's, but did not notify the approx 80 coach owners affected. They also knew CC in 2005 had failures with the same PTO. Thanks goodness for this forum!!! I do not want to breakdown in the middle of nowhere!

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #93 – April 25, 2016, 07:00:42 pm

Let's keep those that already dealt with this on their own dime in any conversation with Drew, Darrell.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #94 – April 26, 2016, 09:04:40 am

Brad,

Sorry to hear this. Thanks for sharing your experience though. My coach is at 26,000 miles and given our coaches are back to back coach numbers, I will be under mine first thing to explore this dry PTO issue. I suspect you just saved me a truckload of problems in the Northwest with my family this summer. And, ironically, highlights why I like Foretravel. This forum is hard to replicate and is, in my opinion, the best thing going for the brand.

Thanks again. Hang in there.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #95 – April 26, 2016, 10:28:20 am

Quote from: Lucky1 – April 26, 2016, 09:04:40 am

Brad,

Sorry to hear this. Thanks for sharing your experience though. My coach is at 26,000 miles and given our coaches are back to back coach numbers, I will be under mine first thing to explore this dry PTO issue. I suspect you just saved me a truckload of problems in the Northwest with my family this summer. And, ironically, highlights why I like Foretravel. This forum is hard to replicate and is, in my opinion, the best thing going for the brand.

Thanks again. Hang in there.

Hey Lucky, It is easy to find because it is red in color. Located on the pass side of trans. If you do not see a zerk fitting on the end of the PTO (the end that faces the rear of the coach) you have the non greaseable unit. It will eventually fail.

Follow-ups
- Where to get dry PTO repair done?

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #96 – April 26, 2016, 11:13:09 am

Who is the best to do repair? This is beyond my pay grade. Cummins, Allison, or a shop in Nac? Would be great if I could do this locally.

Re: Am driving my last Foretravel !!!!!

Reply #97 – April 26, 2016, 11:22:14 am

I would see if FT will help on it and do it for you or reccommend someone. I would think Allison could do it. I am not sure I agree with the comment above that FT appreciates this forum as much as the owners do.