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electrical issue

Im at a rest stop in Florida. Went to take off this morning and couldnt get it to go into gear. no alarms or errors on the dash but the voltage meter read zero.  checked the chasis batteries and the voltqge is reading around 10.8. hit the boost and it goes up to 12.6.  I am guessing its either the batteries or the alternator.

Any suggestions.

Rick
--
Wendy Chatley Green

Re: electrical issue

Reply #1 –
Don't know which coach you have...but did you check for codes? 
George and Steph
1997 U270 36 Build 5081 "Honu"
1180w Solar 400A lithium all Victron house system
Motorcade 17670, SKP 128300, FMCA F459019
73 VW Camper, 79 VW Camper, 2363 Sunline, and an Arctic Fox 25P

Re: electrical issue

Reply #2 –
Didn't check the codes.  Instead, worked on getting it running with Ms Danni's help.  She happened to be at the rest stop and spotted our coach (U270-1998)  We're on the road;  will check later.  Thanks for replying so fast.
--
Wendy Chatley Green

Re: electrical issue

Reply #3 –
Watch you alternator to see if it is charging.  It could be you have a bad battery or batteries ( chassis).  I know from experience that this can be troublesome until you get it resolved.

If you are driving and start having issues again, you can turn on your generator, then turn on the Boost switch.  That should keep you going until you can deal with it.

Best of luck

 ^.^d
Ted & Karen
2001 U270 36' - sold after 12 years full timing

Re: electrical issue

Reply #4 –
Short term "fix" if just the alternator is not producing power.  If the belt is not turning the water pump, you are stuck where you are.

Start generator.  It will power the inverter/charger to charge the house battery bank.

Put on boost switch.  That will allow the house bank to charge the chassis bank.

Low voltage will make the Allison ECU electronics "crazy".

Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: electrical issue

Reply #5 –
Update:  The engine began to overheat.  We're at the side of the road south of Bushnell on I-72

Rick says we threw a belt, lost a lot of coolant, and the alternator  bearings are making a horrible noise and the shaft is wobbly.  Best guess is that it wore the belt, which broke.  We can replace the belt, but will need an alternator.

How hard is it to replace a Leece-Neville alternator and could the tensioner also have gone bad?

Wendy
--
Wendy Chatley Green

Re: electrical issue

Reply #6 –
further update:  We have a local service coming out to remove the alternator and we've found a rebuilt replacement.  Give us an hour or two and we should be on the road again.
--
Wendy Chatley Green

Re: electrical issue

Reply #7 –
worked on getting it running with Ms Danni's help.  FANTASTIC... GOOD PERSON ^.^d
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My advice and experiences are Free, you decide if they are worth anything .

John - driving Old Faithful
1994 U280 GV
C8.3, Banks, Pacbrake, 900 watts, Resonator, XLHD tow dolly
Retired Army Warrant Officer

Life is what you make of it - if it is lemons, make lemonade!
Former Coaches:
1988 GV 40' ORED 300HP CAT - 9 years
1990 Winnebago LeSharo - 3 years
2000 Newmar London Aire - 3 years (#18 of 23 produced)

Re: electrical issue

Reply #8 –
Here is a good 30 second video on diagnosing bad belt tensioners by Gates Corp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTLV5IU_IMM

And, yes many techs recommend changing the tensioner when belts are replaced.  The extra labor at belt change time is R&R one bolt!

Brett Wolfe
EX: 1993 U240
Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

Re: electrical issue

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Wendy Green –
Im at a rest stop in Florida. Went to take off this morning and couldnt get it to go into gear. no alarms or errors on the dash but the voltage meter read zero.  checked the chasis batteries and the voltqge is reading around 10.8. hit the boost and it goes up to 12.6.  I am guessing its either the batteries or the alternator.

Any suggestions.

Rick


Rick, Wendy,
Sorry for your trials.  You're moving faster than I can reply.  I had put the following together but your alternator failure got ahead of my response.  Because you need a special alternator belt, I'll find that number and get it to you.  I would replace the tensioner, but if it is spinning freely and has no bearing play, it's not an immediate need.

The following is just FYI, at this point, because the alternator failure has presented itself, but the information may help in trying to figure out the Root Cause of the alternator failure, if it wasn't a random initiating cause:
You already have good advice.  As long as the engine start batteries are holding any charge at all, starting the generator and closing the boost switch will keep you going in a safe fashion, all the way to San Diego if need be.  Princess has been there before.  Just a bit noisier and more costly to endlessly run the generator, but in 90+ degree weather, you'll need it for the roof airs anyway.
When the engine start battery goes low, the Allison ECU goes dumb.  So not unusual that it wouldn't change states.
For whatever reason, your engine start batteries have lost their charge. If the batteries are still good, any one of the following on board systems will recharge the engine start battery bank;
    • The installed Trik-L-Start, if working properly, will allow the transfer of electrons from the house battery bank to the engine start bank (but only up to about a 5 amp current rate -- very slow charging).
    • Closing the Boost switch will allow the transfer of much more charging current from the house battery bank to the engine start bank.
    • The next highest charging rate of the engine start batteries will come from running the generator and having the boost switch closed.
    • Once running, the engine alternator will generate the most engine start battery charging current.  BTW, when the generator and coach engine are both running and the boost switch is closed, look at your generator amps.  If the alternator is properly feeding current to the engine start battery bank, it will show zero generator current because the alternator output is at a slightly higher voltage than the battery charger output and therefore the generator current will go to zero (charger output voltage is back-biased). . 
    [/list]
    So, a couple of questions:
    Do you think that the engine start batteries  were low or dead when you started from home?  i.e., did you start the coach on boost and was it lethargic in starting?  The boost switch, if only getting energy from the house batteries (starting through the boost switch with a dead engine battery bank), will not provide an energetic start.  If so, that means the engine start batteries were depleted while in storage. If that is the case, when you park tonight, I'd start by connecting a VOM to monitor the engine start battery bank current while everything DC is powered off and I had pulled all of the DC fuses at the foot of the bed, reinsert the fuses one at a time and determine which circuit is causing any unusual current drain.  Listen for relays inappropriately closing when you reinsert fuses (stuck pilot relays or circuit breakers that keep power relays energized when the ignition is off, can exceed the Trik-L-Start's ability to keep the start battery bank charged up).
    Or, did the Allison reluctance to shift first show up only after you stopped at the rest area?  If that is the case, alternator current isn't being provided to the engine start battery bank going down the road and just the current drain (through normal systems running) has gradually drained the engine bank.  In that case, the alternator sense wire, the battery isolator, the alternator voltage regulator (internal to the alternator) and the general health of the two engine start battery bank Red Tops (and alternator itself) are called into question.  BTW, if Red Tops are allowed to sit depleted for several days, it will likely cause some degree of permanent damage.

    Give me a call anytime,
    Neal

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    Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
    '02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
    '04 Gold Wing
    '07 Featherlite 24'
    '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
    MC #14494
    Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
    Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

    Re: electrical issue

    Reply #10 –
    Rick/Wendy,
    Here's the belt number:

    K080638HD        63.80" effective length  This may be a newer model number belt (maybe only available in the past few years?) It fits my engine configuration perfectly and the tensioner rides about 1/3 of its way through its travel, when the belt is first installed (about 1/2 way after 25K to 30 K miles in service).  The "GREEN STRIPE" Gates Model (HD designator) is much longer lasting (I get close to double the longevity).

    Here's the link to the forum thread:

    http://www.foreforums.com/index.php?topic=15819.msg98222#msg98222

    Neal
    The selected media item is not currently available.
    Neal (& Brenda) Pillsbury
    '02 U320 SPEC, 4200, DGFE, Build #5984
    '04 Gold Wing
    '07 Featherlite 24'
    '14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit
    MC #14494
    Exeter, NH & LaBelle FL
    Quality makes the Heart Soar long after Price is Forgotten

    Re: electrical issue

    Reply #11 –
    Quote from: Wendy Green –
    Instead, worked on getting it running with Ms Danni's help.  She happened to be at the rest stop and spotted our coach (U270-1998) 
    ...well hardly any real help except a little moral support, a bit of wi-fi to get onto the forum (they're already members!) til they got their's up & running & general cheer-leading.... O:)  Nothing different from what any FoFum would have done had he/she come upon a FT with engine casing wide open & tools strewn about...met these fine folks at Christmas, good to see them again, though hopefully under better circumstances next time. 

    Re: electrical issue

    Reply #12 –
    Quote from: Wendy Green –
    further update:  We have a local service coming out to remove the alternator and we've found a rebuilt replacement.  Give us an hour or two and we should be on the road again.

    Wendy,

    Be sure they understand the Foretravel alternator configuration (and presence of a battery isolator)

    Alternator -DUVAC- isolator - explanation please
    Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

    2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
    2003 U320

    Re: electrical issue

    Reply #13 –
    Hi Karen and Ted,

    Besides the actual battery bolts, another spot to check for low engine batteries readings might what I found on mine coach recently...loose cable connection bolts on the buss bars that the engine battery cables are connected to. The negative cable bolt was loose, with movable connection. It was giving me very poor charging and slow engine cranking. Tightened it up and bingo...13.+ voltage on the dash volt meter again.

    Jim

    2002 U320
    Jim Frerichs
    2002 U320 42'

    Re: electrical issue

    Reply #14 –
    Update:

    We are up and running--but we keep staying the night at places w/no Wifi or cell reception.  Rick had a long explanation ready to post and the signal dropped and he lost the whole thing.  Once we're at our destination tonight, he'll try again.

    We do thank everyone for the help.

    Wendy
    --
    Wendy Chatley Green

    Re: electrical issue

    Reply #15 –
    Wendy,

    When we are in marginal coverage areas, I will write a reply in word (new document), then copy and paste into the Forum.

    If the connection fails, you don't loose what has been written.

    Been there, experienced that-- oh the frustration!
    Brett Wolfe
    EX: 1993 U240
    Moderator, ForeForum 2001-
    Moderator Diesel RV Club 2002-
    Moderator, FMCA Forum 2009-2020
    Chairman FMCA Technical Advisory Committee 2011-2020

    Re: electrical issue

    Reply #16 –
    Quote from: Wendy Green –
    We are up and running--but we keep staying the night at places w/no Wifi or cell reception.  Rick had a long explanation ready to post and the signal dropped and he lost the whole thing.

    Wendy,

    The forum autosaves post and PM's in progress.  Go to your profile and click "view drafts".  Rick's post might be saved there; he can just edit and continue it.

    Michelle
    Learn every day, but especially from the experiences of others. It's cheaper!  - John C. Bogle

    2000 U320 36' non-slide / WildEBeest Rescue
    2003 U320