help! broken down! Alternator Issues

Topic: help! broken down! Alternator Issues (Read 4751 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #50 – May 09, 2016, 09:59:15 pm

I don't know...those boys are playing some baseball tonight

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #51 – May 09, 2016, 10:01:52 pm

SO helpful!!! Thanks for the pic!

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #52 – May 10, 2016, 12:07:58 am

I am glad you were able to move of the road safely with her own power and not had to be towed. looks like since I logged in last you were in very good hands here

I think your problem is going to be somehow related to the alternator, belt, lose cable or old batteries that are not holding charge anymore. This problem over all relativity be easy fix, easy for your pocket or your hands :-)
Foretravel life will go on with many good adventures ahead, enjoy.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #53 – May 10, 2016, 09:11:21 am

HIT IT WITH A HAMMER!!! A tip for the future.

I recently had a similar occurrence where my engine light came on due to the low starting battery voltage and then it would only click when I tried to restart the engine. Fortunately I was able to limp home by using the generator and the boost switch.

As it turned out my alternator was not putting out any DC current so the starting battery's voltage got very low as we drove down the road. I found out that my ground wire at the starting batteries was slightly loose. As the voltage got lower due no alternator power, the slightly loose connection became a major problem and the engine would only click when I tried to start it even with the boost switch on. Fortunately I found the loose battery connection on the side of the road and was able to start the engine on the house batteries.

When we got home I found that we had a FANCY Powerline aftermarket alternator that would cost $1250 to replace. So I removed the alternator, relatively simple job, and found a local alternator shop at the recommendation of the Powerline tech person. The shop disassembled the alternator and found that dust had packed the inside of the brush channel where the brush would not contact the rotor. He cleaned things up, lubricated and reassembled the alternator, cost $30. He told me if it ever happened again "TAP THE ALTERNATOR HOUSING BRISKLY WITH A BRASS OR PLASTIC HAMMER or very gently with a steel hammer. It is likely the vibration would have loosened the dust and got the alternator working again. He also said that the alternator looked brand new inside. There was almost no wear showing on the brushes or bearings. I have 167,000 miles on my coach and probably 60,000 miles on the alternator. It was put in in 2003.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #54 – May 10, 2016, 10:34:55 am

What does JD Stevens call it? Percussive persuasion?

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #55 – May 10, 2016, 10:39:41 am

Kent...thanks for this tip. It may come in handy for us because it looks like our alternator belt is just fine. Also, the battery is showing 13.5V on the trimeteric, but the boost has been on all night. I guess the next test is to start her up and turn the boost off and see what happens? We did give the alternator a few taps with a hammer fitted with a rubber cover , so if its a dust issue like yours was, maybe that will solve the problem. We also noticed some corrosion that we missed when we brushed off the battery terminals a few weeks ago and we are gonna clean that off before we start her back up.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #56 – May 10, 2016, 11:04:50 am

To verify the alternator is charging, disconnect from shore power, and turn the boost off. Turn the ignition key just 1 click to on, but don't start. Now read the dash voltmeter. This is your chassis battery voltage with the engine off (no alternator) . Now start the engine and let it run for a minute or so, and read the dash voltmeter again. This is your chassis battery voltage with alternator turning. You should see a noticeable increase in voltage, say 1 to 1.5 volts if your alternator is charging properly. If no increase, then more trouble shooting is required to find out what the problem is.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #57 – May 10, 2016, 11:08:22 am

Ok. I sent JOR a picture and he says its the isolator where we are having all the corrosion and that may be the source of our problem. So, we are going to try to clean it up, but we may have to replace that component altogether. It didn't fare well in the Michigan winter. Poor little southern coach. She just needs some love after all she's been put through

We have some clean up to do and are trying to plan our full time lifestyle better for next winter. We are traveling Christian artists and are trying to make more connections in the south so that we can spend the entire winter out of the salt and grit of the northern winters. So, if you guys know of any churches or coffee shops or anything like that in the south where they would welcome in guests for concerts or nights of worship, definitely send them our way! Our website is Trent & Siobhán

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #58 – May 10, 2016, 11:23:10 am

Quote from: Walkerfam7 – May 10, 2016, 10:39:41 am

...it looks like our alternator belt is just fine.

Well, it's a good thing I didn't bet my (nonexistent) paycheck on the belt being broken! That is good news - it means you don't have a frozen bearing in the alternator, and everything is rotating freely. I hope it turns out to be a simple electrical or mechanical glitch that can be inexpensively corrected. Cleaning and tightening battery terminals and connections is always a worthwhile endeavor, no matter what else you find during your investigation. Good luck!

PS: In case you haven't discovered them, DeoxIT and CorrosionX are very helpful products when working on battery connections:

DeoxIT #D5S-6 Spray Contact Cleaner and Rejuvenator – RadioShack

CorrosionX

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #59 – May 10, 2016, 11:31:40 am

Reference my recent "rescued on FOT lot". Too clean can't happen, as I learned.

If you by any chance have two lighter or power plugs on your dash, if like mine, one shows engine and the other will show house voltages. Buy a simple digital lighter plug voltmeter, or two.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #60 – May 10, 2016, 11:51:28 am

Isolator is not a bad thing to replace, if you want (or have) to try to do it yourself. I replaced ours recently, and my skills are not stellar. Most important bit of advice I received was to make sure you use some sort of tape and mark all the cables before removing them from the old isolator - so that you get them replaced correctly. I also snapped a photo of it before disassembly for reference. Search here for isolator and you can read up on it a bit. Best of luck -

Chris

On edit: I learned that our isolator is in a terrible place (behind and slightly above the driver side rear wheels) because it catches all the road spray. Brett W has a great solution for this (that involves converting the isolator to a manual switch and moving it to the foot of the bed) that may be good for you if you are in this climate often, but I was not bold or smart enough to convert to his type of arrangement - even though it is superior to the factory setup.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #61 – May 10, 2016, 12:02:06 pm

Most importantly: DISCONNECT ALL OF THE BATTERY CONNECTIONS, before messing with the isolator and other battery powered devices!

Trent

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #62 – May 10, 2016, 01:28:31 pm

Lucky for us, JOR has labled everything but the kitchen sink on this rig. Its one of the things we loved about this coach since we were so inexperienced. Lables are invaluable when working with such a complicated machine. Also, to our benefit, he took pictures over every square inch of the coach inside and out and has all of them on file. He has been so helpful to us so many times already. All we have to do is ask a question and he sends of detailed pics of everything we need to know. We couldn't ask for a better former owner of our coach. We have probably wore him out with all of our questions...lol. So, we are already labled and hubby has taken pics before removing connections. Gonna get it all cleaned up and see what we've got. I think we will probably have to replace the isolator and we really do need to relocate it. I don't want to be in that weather again, but it is not at all in a protected area. It is near the rear tire and I'm sure gets covered in salt. If we do visit Trent's parents at all in the winter it would be better if its in a spot where its not so exposed.
Next question is, where would we find a local place to buy a replacement isolator or is it something we can only get online? It would be nice if we could replace it ourselves...

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #63 – May 10, 2016, 01:44:23 pm

Quote from: Walkerfam7 – May 10, 2016, 01:28:31 pm

Next question is, where would we find a local place to buy a replacement isolator or is it something we can only get online? It would be nice if we could replace it ourselves...

I believe you are still in the Cincinnati area and so there should be at least a few places around who have an isolator in stock. There is a Camping World not terribly far away and they may have what you need--although their prices are generally not the best. You could probably find something at Amazon and might get next-day delivery.

Peter Martin gave you his number and could possibly be of assistance. If necessary you could send me a Personal Message here on the forum. I'm in the Dayton, Ohio area about 60 miles north of Cincinnati.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #64 – May 10, 2016, 01:46:58 pm

They are easy to buy and drop into a Napa or O'Riellys etc as all can get you one. I think you need a 3 post 200 amp one and should be around $140 or so. Easy to replace as well just do not let cables touch any metal or each other when changing out. Really easy.
Take care
JohnH

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #65 – May 10, 2016, 01:49:47 pm

http://www.littelfuse.com/products/battery-management/battery-isolators/diode-battery-isolators.aspx
Info on them that may help.
JohnH

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #66 – May 10, 2016, 01:59:26 pm

Has the isolator been verified as the problem? Has the alternator been verified as good? Don't want to start replacing parts until the issue is identified.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #67 – May 10, 2016, 02:02:15 pm

FWIW, I used liberal amounts of dielectric grease in the isolator area behind the dualies. It's been 7 years since the isolator and all the solenoids/relays were replaced and all is well corrosionwise. Once a year I spray CorrosionX over this area and I have not had any issues with this procedure.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #68 – May 10, 2016, 02:14:25 pm

Not yet. We are just wanting to get everything cleaned up first and see where that leaves us when we start up.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #69 – May 10, 2016, 02:24:36 pm

Not for the faint of heart, but at least on our 1993 U240, we relocated the electricals from behind the left rear wheel to inside the "electrical compartment" at the foot of the bed. Lots of connections, but don't recall having to cut and splice any.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #70 – May 10, 2016, 02:52:18 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – May 10, 2016, 02:24:36 pm

Not for the faint of heart, but at least on our 1993 U240, we relocated the electricals from behind the left rear wheel to inside the "electrical compartment" at the foot of the bed. Lots of connections, but don't recall having to cut and splice any.

Yup, still here, Brett, problems zero!

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #71 – May 10, 2016, 11:04:49 pm

Quote from: nitehawk – May 10, 2016, 10:34:55 am

What does JD Stevens call it? Percussive persuasion?

"Percussive maintenance"

It doesn't always work, but it is usually easy to try. If you are not too harsh, you are not likely to break something. I've had success "fixing" the electropneumatic valve on the hydraulic accumulator for the retarder, and "fixing" the Freedom 25 inverter/charger. Those devices will likely require replacement, but I was able to defer replacement and "get on the road."

A heavier application of "percussive maintenance" will often "fix" a brake caliper that is stuck and causing a disk to overheat.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #72 – May 11, 2016, 01:53:38 am

If you need to replace the diode isolator, I'd go with a voltage sensitive relay instead. I put a vsr in place of my isolator a couple of years ago and like the results. One improvement is that the house battery charger also charges the chassis batteries.

I still have the original isolator. You can have it if you need one. All I need to do is find it when I get back home this weekend.

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #73 – May 11, 2016, 09:14:42 am

Thank you, Tom. That is very kind of you. We are still not sure that the isolator is what we are dealing with. We cleaned everything off yesterday between waves of monsoons hitting Cincinnati and started the coach up without the boost to find that our dash voltmeter as well as the trimetric were still only measuring the start batteries at around 12 to 12.5 :/ The alternator, from the outside, "looks" fine and like its doing its job and we even gave it a dose of "percussive maintenance" hahaha. Not really sure how we would single out the isolator as the culprit.
Anyways, Pete is going to come help us troubleshoot a bit today. We will see if someone more experienced with the coaches will notice something that we have missed.
I can't help feeling that this has something to do with my father in law cleaning our cruddy battery terminals a few weeks ago. Either the fact that they were so yucky meant that they were not going to last much longer, or maybe, when he put it all back together he didn't get something quite right. He is an engineer and often very helpful, but he is getting up there in years and may have unintentionally got something backwards or loose or something. He did spray the terminals with something to prevent corrosion and JOR said he never put that on the terminals...he just kept them really clean. Maybe that stuff is causing issues?
Any more ideas you guys can come up with, just throw them out there. FMCA here told us they have some local repair shops that will come out here to us. Would it be wise to have someone like that check it out if Pete can't help? Or would you guys choose to just bring the coach straight to Cummins?

Re: help! broken down!

Reply #74 – May 11, 2016, 09:41:59 am

IMO, if you can get (free) help from anyone familiar with motorhome electrical systems in general, and Foretravel systems in particular, that should be your first choice. Paying a shop to troubleshoot a electrical problem can get real expensive very quickly. You'll be unpleasantly surprised at how fast $100 per hour shop time adds up!

If the coach was working properly before, and after some maintenance work it is malfunctioning, then the logical place to start is by reviewing the recent work. Check all connections for cleanliness and tightness. If you have a electrical schematic for your coach, try to verify all cable routing is correct. The battery cables on our coaches can get pretty complicated - more than one owner has inadvertently misrouted a cable after doing a "clean-up". Pay particular attention to the battery cable connections on the isolator.

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