Transmission Fluid

Topic: Transmission Fluid (Read 1099 times) previous topic - next topic

Transmission Fluid

May 25, 2016, 09:56:22 pm

Ran fluid level test from keypad as soon as parked at Oasis in Amarillo After 1-8 countdown read out showed 4 quarts low Serviced at MOT and driven less than 2k miles since and no visible leaks. Variable here versus prior coach with same engine and transmission is the retarder Does the retarder unit hold some fluid that is not in the sump so that the sensor is reading less than is actually in the total unit? Or had I better go find some Dexron and figure out how to add 3-4 quarts without making a mess on this concrete pad?

David Spoor.
99 U 295. C 8.3

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #1 – May 25, 2016, 10:48:40 pm

David, never heard of the retarder having a role in this. Did MOT change the tranny fluid? Not normal in service to have changed it all out unless a need, in other words, that is not a normal annual service. I would try checking the transmission fluid with the dip stick before adding any fluid. You need to check these levels while hot, as I recall. If you are parked overnight, I guess wait until tomorrow to get heated if not still hot but just to have a look tonight at the dip stick would be interesting.

Maybe other responses will have more. Call me in a.m. if you need me to run down more info here or call MOT, you have their number.

Mike

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #2 – May 26, 2016, 06:57:07 am

Your Allison transmission should not have Dexron in it. Instead, you should make sure to use TranSynd or one of the Allison-approved fluids that meets their SES-295 specification requirements. On-Highway Fluids

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #3 – May 26, 2016, 07:29:56 am

Mike: Service Invoice for MOT Major Components PDI last December shows that transmission fluid and filters changed and parts listing shows 32 quarts of Dexron. I brought up the retarder only because of something I read about the way the retarder operates and the role the oil plays in that. I will get it up to operating temp this morning and check again

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #4 – May 26, 2016, 07:50:00 am

Quote from: Dspoor – May 26, 2016, 07:29:56 am

Mike: Service Invoice for MOT Major Components PDI last December shows that transmission fluid and filters changed and parts listing shows 32 quarts of Dexron.

Why did they put Dexron in an Allison?

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #5 – May 26, 2016, 08:32:23 am

David,

You need to pull your radiator cap before you start the engine to see if you find trans fluid in the tank. If the trans oil cooler has a leak most of the time (but not always) the trans fluid goes high due to the pressure in the cooling system. If oil is in your cooling system tank the cooler is suspect.

Pamela & Mike

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #6 – May 26, 2016, 08:54:28 am

If you have Dextron in it I would get it out ASAP. They say the electronic fluid level checker is the preferred way to check trans fluid level as it's more accurate.

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #7 – May 26, 2016, 09:33:02 am

I think a couple of the answers above have a unnecessary "alarmist" tone. I last had my transmission fluid/filters changed at Oregon Motorcoach Center (Eugene, OR) - a Foretravel factory authorized service center. They offered me a choice of using TranSynd or DEXRON-III - they stated that either one is fully approved by Allison. Based on my driving habits, and the low number of miles we put on our coach each year, I elected to go with the less expensive fluid.

My coach has had nothing but DEXRON in the transmission for 23 years and 180,000 miles, and it is still shifting perfectly. I would say it has stood the test of time. IMO, David (the OP) should feel free to use either conventional OR synthetic transmission fluid.

For official guidance, please refer to page 50 in the Allison operator's manual linked below:

http://www.rvtechlibrary.com/transmissions/3000_4000_operators.pdf

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #8 – May 26, 2016, 09:40:31 am

Good morning David....call me if need or especially Eric, have copy invoice number if you do but he can find you by name. Remember too to use Jason if relates to how you addressed the tire question.

When you were at MOT the other week about tire, i thought you had other questions. Was tranny fliud one of them, guess not. And guess this did not show up on the trips to Kerrvillr/Nac and back, etc. Kinda real concern with your travel plans and you on the way. maybe if you in Amarillo, i think, if you can get changed there IF that needed, not return MOT necessary?

Call David if need me, maybe i just call you. Sorry worries on your way.

(chuck posted possuble explanation while I was typing...if that answers, then why are you down four quarts may be where you get to as issue. Call Eric or Jasin, want you have a great time, trip...answers from MOT will help)

Mike

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #9 – May 26, 2016, 09:58:45 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – May 26, 2016, 09:33:02 am

I think a couple of the answers above have a unnecessary "alarmist" tone. I last had my transmission fluid/filters changed at Oregon Motorcoach Center (Eugene, OR) - a Foretravel factory authorized service center. They offered me a choice of using TranSynd or DEXRON-III - they stated that either one is fully approved by Allison. Based on my driving habits, and the low number of miles we put on our coach each year, I elected to go with the less expensive fluid.

My coach has had nothing but DEXRON in the transmission for 23 years and 180,000 miles, and it is still shifting perfectly. I would say it has stood the test of time. IMO, David (the OP) should feel free to use either conventional OR synthetic transmission fluid.

For official guidance, please refer to page 50 in the Allison operator's manual linked below:

http://www.rvtechlibrary.com/transmissions/3000_4000_operators.pdf

The document you cited is dated 2005. Current guidance from Allison is in Service Tip 1099, Rev. S, dated November 2013, which can be found at FAQ-Service Tips and which states the following:

"DEXRON®III and DEXRON®VI fluids are no longer approved for use in Commercial OnHighway transmission products
and have been removed from the Allison Approved NonTES 295 or NonTES 468 fluids list."

I strongly recommend following Allison's current guidance, and not following out-of-date documents.

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #10 – May 26, 2016, 09:59:19 am

David, have flashlight with you? Without getting under coach, look from both sides of coach....see oil on the tranny?

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #11 – May 26, 2016, 10:24:38 am

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – May 26, 2016, 09:58:45 am

I strongly recommend following Allison's current guidance, and not following out-of-date documents.

Since David drives a 1999 model coach, I would think a document written in 2005 would apply to his coach (and to my 1993). Does the fact that Allison changed their recommendation in 2013 mean that every pre-2013 vehicle on the road with a Allison transmission is running the incorrect fluid? Perhaps there was some internal change made to the transmissions in 2013, that required a different fluid? Is every change in technical guidance issued by a manufacturer automatically retroactive back through all preceding versions of the device in question?

The fact that MOT, often mentioned here as the "go-to" place for service, used DEXRON to service David's transmission, lends some credence to my position. But I could certainly be wrong - it happens with depressing regularity.

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #12 – May 26, 2016, 10:28:55 am

Quote from: D.J. Osborn – May 26, 2016, 09:58:45 am

The document you cited is dated 2005. Current guidance from Allison is in Service Tip 1099, Rev. S, dated November 2013, which can be found at FAQ-Service Tips and which states the following:

"DEXRON®III and DEXRON®VI fluids are no longer approved for use in Commercial OnHighway transmission products
and have been removed from the Allison Approved NonTES 295 or NonTES 468 fluids list."

I strongly recommend following Allison's current guidance, and not following out-of-date documents.

That is for 2009 and newer Allison with Prognostics. Dextron is still approved for older units just shorter fluid change intervals

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #13 – May 26, 2016, 10:36:45 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – May 26, 2016, 10:24:38 am

Since David drives a 1999 model coach, I would think a document written in 2005 would apply to his coach (and to my 1993). Does the fact that Allison changed their recommendation in 2013 mean that every pre-2013 vehicle on the road with a Allison transmission is running the incorrect fluid? Perhaps there was some internal change made to the transmissions in 2013, that required a different fluid? Is every change in technical guidance issued by a manufacturer automatically retroactive back through all preceding versions of the device in question.

The fact that MOT, often mentioned here as the "go-to" place for service, used DEXRON to service David's transmission, adds some credence to my position. But I could certainly be wrong - it happens with depressing regularity.

I don't have the answers to your questions, since I'm far from an expert in this area. However, my Allison is expensive and I want to give it the best treatment possible. Therefore, I'm concerned when I read the following quote from Tom Johnson, retired from Allison and who wrote the specs when he was at Allison:

"I no longer recommend anyone use DEXRON-III. Use TranSynd or another TES-295 for the best possible performance and durability. DEXRON-III is an obsolete spec so anything these days is being manufactured under the label D3/M meaning DEXRON-III/MERCON. These fluids are manufactured and sold but have no license and are no longer approved by either GM or Ford. I used to sit on the GM DEXRON-III committee and I can tell you that these fluids are no longer evaluated by anyone at GM. So, it's sort of like "buyer beware" when it comes to any DEXRON-III (D3M) products on today's market. Also, do not use DEXRON-VI due to possible seal issues with your older MT transmission."

Finally please read the post from Brett Wolfe at Updated Allison Service Tips 1099 Rev M - Type A motorhomes - FMCA Motorhome...

"DEXRONÂ®-III and DEXRONÂ®-VI fluids are no longer approved for use in Commercial On-Highway transmission products and have been removed from the Allison Approved Non TES 295 fluids list. Transynd is still the preferred fluid, with 'Allison Approved TES 389 fluids' acceptable."

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #14 – May 26, 2016, 10:43:19 am

I do not wish to bicker - it is not productive. Let us all agree that each coach owner should be free to make their own decisions on how they maintain their vehicles, based on what they consider is the best advice from the most knowledgeable sources. Do what makes you happy.

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #15 – May 26, 2016, 10:55:19 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – May 26, 2016, 10:43:19 am

I do not wish to bicker - it is not productive. Let us all agree that each coach owner should be free to make their own decisions on how they maintain their vehicles, based on what they consider is the best advice from the most knowledgeable sources. Do what makes you happy.

I agree completely. No bickering intended or desired. I'm here simply to share what I know, learn what I don't, and to have fun!

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #16 – May 26, 2016, 11:13:42 am

My humble opinion is use the Transynd or equivelent.

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #17 – May 26, 2016, 11:31:15 am

Let me add one more little comment, that is not a "bicker" or in any way disagreeing with anything said above. This pertains more to each coach owner assessing their own unique needs, and proceeding on that basis.

One BIG difference between our coach and most others on this Forum: we (sadly) do not have a retarder. If we did, it would completely alter my personal selection of transmission fluid. A retarder moves any RV transmission into the "Severe Service" category, and I firmly believe any owner who has one should be running the highest quality transmission fluid available. Period. The fact that our coach does not have a retarder, and has always been driven on predominantly flat terrain in a conservative manner, might explain how it has survived so long running DEXRON.

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #18 – May 26, 2016, 11:33:21 am

Quote from: John44 – May 26, 2016, 11:13:42 am

My humble opinion is use the Transynd or equivelent.

I agree completely. Even though TranSynd (or other TES 295-approved fluid) is expensive, it's a relatively small delta cost when the overall operational and maintenance costs are taken into consideration. If nothing else, I consider it to be something like "insurance" against potential future issues.

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #19 – May 26, 2016, 11:41:01 am

Quote from: Chuck & Jeannie – May 26, 2016, 11:31:15 am

The fact that our coach does not have a retarder, and has always been driven on predominantly flat terrain in a conservative manner, might explain how it has survived so long running DEXRON.

This is also not intended as bickering, but it's important to note that the DEXRON III spec is no longer controlled by GM, and so there's no assurance that today's "DEXRON III" fluid is the same as the "DEXRON III" fluid used some years ago. In addition, DEXRON VI has been shown to cause some Viton seal issues in older Allison transmissions.

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #20 – May 26, 2016, 12:33:04 pm

For what it's worth, I had my transmission cooler fail a couple years ago. When it failed there was no fluid left in the transmission as measured by the dipstick. The repair was in the twelve coach buck area. The folks recommended transynd and that is what I had them put in.

Roland

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #21 – May 26, 2016, 12:57:34 pm

Folks, take a deep breath. I am in Amarillo trying to get to Bayfield Colorado by Saturday with a transmission into which MOT put 32 quarts of Dexron 5 months ago. My question was whether the presence of the retarder affected the results from using the touch pad procedure to check. By a tellecon with Keith R at MOT I learned that it did not. So I am dealing with the problem as best I can given what I have to work with. I made the decision between synthetic or not 13 years ago in the same engine in my previous coach and never had a problem. I know all the pros and cons and might decide I don't like what MOT did in preparing this coach for sale---but now is not the time so I have no incentive to join in the debate and instead will start checking for leaks! For those interested in my specific situation, no fluid showed on dipstick at operating temp so added 3 quarts--per Keith--and will check again to see if I need the other quart. Worse case I will have to find an Allison shop

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #22 – May 26, 2016, 12:57:50 pm

David driving so think not rely at moment. He talk Risch at MOT and had him check with dip stick, then add two quarts . Brought it up to reading on stick. David going drive 75 miles and stop at truck stop check level and then decide if add fluid. He looked and saw no evidence of leak.

David not new to RV, just to FT.

Mike

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #23 – May 26, 2016, 01:32:21 pm

I will throw another wrench in this discussion and just say that I drained the Transynd out of the Allison and put in Amsoil "Torque Drive" which according to Tom Johnson it would be foolish to use this oil as it was never ok'd by Allison specs 295. Well Amsoil say it is good and give a 100% warranty with it and you know what, my tranny is running fine, smooth and cool after about 40k miles.
Different strokes I guess.
JohnH

Re: Transmission Fluid

Reply #24 – May 26, 2016, 01:51:11 pm

I would just drive to a nearby Allison dealer and explain all this to them. I did that once for an unrelated issue, and they read the codes and tested the transmission fluid, then sent me on my way with lots of warm fuzzies.

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