Moving isolator panel

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Moving isolator panel

August 18, 2016, 05:20:13 pm

I'm thinking that I ought to install the new isolator, boost solenoid, etc. in the space under the bed where the transfer switch lives. How big a hold should I make for the wires, and what should I use to keep engine fumes from coming in (not to mention various critters)?

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #1 – August 18, 2016, 05:32:35 pm

David,

Been a long time since I did exactly that, but as I recall, I used a 1.5" hose. Drilled a hole that it would just fit through. Ran all wires through it. Then used a polysulfide to seal around the hose and also filled the center of the hose after all the wires were in place.

Certainly, no air/exhaust in or out.

Don't recall having to cut any wires. But take real care in labeling them so you can return them to their original position on the panel.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #2 – August 18, 2016, 05:33:01 pm

On our 99', and I believe the later 90's unicoaches (say 97' and up as an onageristic guess... with apologies to Trent

), the isolator panel is on the engine side of that inner partition under the bed. It seems fairly well protected there, although perhaps heat might be more of a factor with the Detroit's. There is a steel plate mounted on top of the engine compartment insulation to which the components are mounted. When I redo the isolator stuff and the insulation, I will use a 3/16" aluminum plate to mount the components as the layout will be different than the OEM.
Don

Quote from: kb0zke – August 18, 2016, 05:20:13 pm

I'm thinking that I ought to install the new isolator, boost solenoid, etc. in the space under the bed where the transfer switch lives. How big a hold should I make for the wires, and what should I use to keep engine fumes from coming in (not to mention various critters)?

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #3 – August 18, 2016, 05:51:02 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – August 18, 2016, 05:33:01 pm

On our 99', and I believe the later 90's unicoaches (say 97' and up as an onageristic guess... with apologies to Trent ), the isolator panel is on the engine side of that inner partition under the bed. ...............

Don,
I think that 1999 was the year that the isolator and solenoid moved from the start battery location to the engine compartment fwd bulkhead, for all models. Our 1998 U270 was behind the curb side duals with the starting batteries.
Neal

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #4 – August 18, 2016, 05:59:41 pm

On our '96 the isolator is on the frame, street side, and for some ridiculous reason behind the floor safe. Why wouldn't someone ask about that before doing either installation?

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #5 – August 18, 2016, 06:25:28 pm

Thanks for the correction Neal!

Always striving to add to my knowledge base of the differences and similarities between years/models... a hobby of mine

Don

Quote from: Neal Pillsbury – August 18, 2016, 05:51:02 pm

Don,
I think that 1999 was the year that the isolator and solenoid moved from the start battery location to the engine compartment fwd bulkhead, for all models. Our 1998 U270 was behind the curb side duals with the starting batteries.
Neal

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #6 – August 19, 2016, 10:15:26 am

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – August 18, 2016, 05:33:01 pm

as an onageristic guess... with apologies to Trent

Don,

Until today, I thought I had coined that form of the word. Prior to responding, I googled it and found that it was a known phrase used in several contexts.

I am crushed!

I hereby relinquish all monetary claims I thought I had on its usage. It is obviously already in the public domain.

So sad.

Trent

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #7 – August 23, 2016, 08:43:45 pm

Does anyone have part numbers or specs for the solenoids and circuit breakers on the isolator panel? I'd like to minimize the time that the coach is completely without power, so I'd like to buy new ones to install in the new location at the foot of the bed.

Also, my alternator has two fat red cables and two smaller wires coming from four separate terminals on the alternator. I'm assuming that one of each goes to the isolator. Where does the other set go? I'd like to reroute the two that go to the isolator so they travel in a more direct path, rather than going from the alternator (top of engine, street side) down the curb side of the engine to the old isolator, then back up to the new location.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #8 – August 23, 2016, 09:08:42 pm

David,

I mean this in the best possible light, but this may not be something you want to tackle.

Disconnect the negative lead from both battery banks.

No need to buy new anything (unless they are badly corroded, etc). CAREFULLY label each wire so it can be returned to its proper location once you have moved the whole board.

No idea how your electrical system is wired (too many were changed by previous owners for me to know), but with 4 wires at the alternator:
B+ to center lug of isolator
Ground
Sense to chassis battery lug of isolator or other location on the "battery side of the isolator" chassis battery
If 4th, IGN/excite. A wire that has 12 VDC positive only when the ignition is on.

IF OE wiring, the wires should be labeled and should conform to the wiring schematic for your coach.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #9 – August 23, 2016, 09:50:01 pm

Brett, those solenoids and circuit breakers look like they have already died, so I'm being a bit proactive here. My plan is to mount the new equipment and then move one terminal at a time. I have the new isolator and would like to get the other parts, hence the request for part numbers. The existing parts may well be fine, but as long as I'm moving things around I may as well install new ones.

The alternator has four terminals on it. The outer two are large, red ones. The inner two are smaller and each is in a plastic cable sheath (having a senior moment and can't think of the proper name for it). One of those large red cables goes to the isolator. Where does the other one go? I would assume that one of the smaller wires is the infamous sense wire, which attaches to the engine battery terminal of the isolator. What's the other one?

When I work on moving the wires the 50A service will be off and all batteries disconnected, so there won't be any refrigeration (we have a residential refrigerator), so I don't want to disconnect everything, pull off the old parts, drive to the parts store, find and buy the new parts, then back here to install. This will keep Jo Ann happier.

We've still got a month +/- here, but I do want to get this done before we leave. At this point the biggest challenge is that by the time we get back to the campground, have our happy hour and supper it is getting dark too soon to get much done, so slow and steady it is.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #10 – August 23, 2016, 11:56:29 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – August 23, 2016, 08:43:45 pm

Does anyone have part numbers or specs for the solenoids and circuit breakers on the isolator panel?

For the 2 solenoids, you might as well get good ones - I would recommend the Cole Hersee 24213:

http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/commercial-vehicle/hot-feeds/littelfuse-solenoids-200a-d625-info-sheet.pdf

The auto reset circuit breakers are made by Bussmann - they come in different amp ratings. Match to what you have now:

Bussmann Automotive Circuit Breakers - Wiring Products

The relays are just universal Bosch 12 volt 5-terminal relays. Be sure you get genuine Bosch brand - lots of cheap copies out there:

Amazon.com: Bosch 332209150 Relay: Automotive

As an Amazon Associate Foretravel Owners' Forum earns from qualifying purchases.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #11 – August 24, 2016, 08:05:09 am

Thanks, Chuck. That's what I need. According to the schematic, the circuit breakers are 15A.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #12 – August 24, 2016, 08:22:31 am

David, the other big wire is a ground wire usually connectd nearby to the engine block. The two small wires are sense and excite. As Brett suggests label these wires and note which post on the alternator they are connected to. (Inboard/outbord)

You can always run a 120v extension cord to the refrig while keeping power off to everything else.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #13 – August 24, 2016, 08:29:05 am

No reason to remove wires from the alternator to relocate the board. Yes, make sure those connections are clean and tight, but you are moving the "other end of the wires".

Agree, if relays/solenoids are damaged, replacing them is a good idea. Make sure the new ones are rated at the same or higher amps and if they are constant duty that you replace them with constant duty ones.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #14 – August 27, 2016, 03:08:35 pm

Looking at pictures of the Cole Hersee 24213 and I see four terminals on it. My existing solenoids have only three. Further reading suggests that mine is considered a grounded model, so I'm assuming that one of the two small terminals on the front of the 24213 is actually for a ground wire. Since I'll be mounting the new solenoids on wood I guess I'll need that ground wire.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #15 – August 27, 2016, 03:43:11 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – August 27, 2016, 03:08:35 pm

Looking at pictures of the Cole Hersee 24213 and I see four terminals on it. My existing solenoids have only three. Further reading suggests that mine is considered a grounded model, so I'm assuming that one of the two small terminals on the front of the 24213 is actually for a ground wire. Since I'll be mounting the new solenoids on wood I guess I'll need that ground wire.

yes

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #16 – August 27, 2016, 06:05:32 pm

Quote from: kb0zke – August 27, 2016, 03:08:35 pm

I'm assuming that one of the two small terminals on the front of the 24213 is actually for a ground wire.

As Stump verified, one small terminal is ground and the other is the "activation" terminal (wire that comes from switch that controls the solenoid). It doesn't matter which small terminal you use for ground - either one will work.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #17 – September 11, 2016, 05:42:44 pm

Well, after many delays I finally got to start moving wires this afternoon. Unfortunately, everything fought me every step of the way. I managed to get all of the smaller wires to/from the solenoids and circuit breakers off and labeled. Unfortunately, I'm about out of time today, and the wires just barely make it to the hole they have to go through. I'll have to mound another terminal strip and extend the wires. No big deal. However, as I said, I'm about out of time today. Can I tape the wires and reconnect the house batteries? The large (2/0 etc.) cables to the old isolator are still all in place, just the smaller wires have been moved.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #18 – September 11, 2016, 05:46:47 pm

Just heard from the expert, Brett Wolfe. He said that I can tape the smaller wires, but use something heavier for the larger lugs. Since none of them are loose, it looks like I can start taping.

Thanks, Brett.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #19 – September 11, 2016, 06:06:44 pm

Yes, I mentioned to David that my favorite for large gauge wires/lugs is old bicycle inner tubes. Much thicker rubber and can be zip tied so there is no chance of the lug contacting metal/ground.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #20 – September 11, 2016, 06:27:56 pm

For the large lugs, I use a piece of heater hose no chance of grounding out then.

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #21 – September 11, 2016, 06:30:34 pm

Yup, an old piece of hose works very well-- basically any fairly thick rubber that will stay in place. If using hose, make sure the lug does not contact any reinforcing wire in the hose!

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #22 – September 11, 2016, 06:54:15 pm

Large shrink tube is available seals well and is quite thick and durable

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #23 – September 11, 2016, 07:43:15 pm

I got everything secured for now, and tomorrow I'll get a couple of terminal blocks and start extending these wires. My wiring plan is to put all of these smaller wires behind the large ones.

Next question: The cable from the alternator runs toward the curb side, then down and back to the isolator panel on the street side. That's probably 10-12 feet of cable. From the alternator to the new isolator is five feet or maybe a bit less. There are two large cables that leave the alternator - one is the + and one is the ground. Unfortunately, Foretravel decided that both cables should be red. So far I haven't been able to figure out which one is the + and which one is the ground. I'd like to just replace the + cable with a somewhat shorter one that will run directly from the alternator to the new isolator. I looked at the Leece Neville website but couldn't find my alternator. Any ideas?

Re: Moving isolator panel

Reply #24 – September 11, 2016, 07:58:42 pm

use a multimeter to find out or even an old test light.

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