110 Power problem

Topic: 110 Power problem (Read 1266 times) previous topic - next topic

110 Power problem

August 28, 2016, 04:36:02 pm

After some searching I haven't found the right previous posts to fit my situation so here goes.....we returned home today from camping and all was well on the trip. While we where gone my electrician installed a 30amp plug at my garage for me. He said it all checked fine (I did not check upon my return stupid on my part) I plugged the coach in and heard a unusual "pop" not the normal click. I walked to the drivers side of the coach and saw smoke coming from the compartment under the fridge (1st pic). I immediately unplugged. Now now 110 power, no genset start up. Checked circuit breakers and power converter, microwave and central vac were tripped.

I am an electrical novice that doesn't enjoy working on electrical mostly due to my ignorance and colorblindness. The converter that was smoking as I understood from PO was for the solor panel that runs to the fridge. Also the power inverter for the microwave has never worked in my ownership.

A lot going on I know.... I am just looking for some valid insight before she goes to the repair shop as I will not be tackling this on my own.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #1 – August 28, 2016, 04:38:42 pm

Also these are the pics from my equipment under the bed....all original from 1989

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #2 – August 28, 2016, 04:45:13 pm

Did your electrician correctly wire for an RV 30 Amp 120 V circuit or did he wire it up as an appliance plug/240 Vac?

RV Electric

Most residential electricians do NOT understand that an RV 30 amp circuit is a 120 V one, not a 240 V one.

I hope it's something else, but if not, ugh... a number of things could be fried.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #3 – August 28, 2016, 04:48:18 pm

A 30 amp RV connection has:
ONE, repeat ONE hot
One neutral
One ground
It is 120 VAC

If he wired it 240 VAC, you are in for a lot of expensive repairs:
A 240 VAC 30 amp outlet has:
TWO, repeat TWO hots (240 VAC between them)
One ground
May have one neutral

To check, stick your digital voltmeter (set to VAC) into the outlet. If the reading between two of them is 240, your electrician did not wire it correctly for an RV. If you only read 120 VAC, let us know and we can go from there.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #4 – August 28, 2016, 04:59:04 pm

I hope all turn out well. This sounds as if it could be a very bad situation!

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #5 – August 28, 2016, 05:12:57 pm

Slight clarification.

Foretravels are no more/less sensitive to incorrect alternating current than any other RV-- most expensive motorhome to least expensive trailer. The appliances and basic VAC electrical systems are the same.

Same as houses-- putting 240 VAC into any 120 VAC appliance will "let all the smoke out"! Yes, houses do have some 240 VAC appliances like stove tops, some ovens, electric dryers, electric water heater. But the vast majority of house appliances are 120 VAC (one hot, one neutral and one ground) just like RV's.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #6 – August 28, 2016, 06:23:18 pm

240 v to 120 v system may not fry everything. Lost the neutral connection to the power lines earlier this year and was in the kitchen at the time. Lights got real bright and started flashing and I pulled the plug on the $$$ fridge and deep freezer. I then ran thru the house to get to the panel to kill the power. This event lasted 5 minutes. All led light bulbs + most cfl were toast. Microwave and other appliances still plugged in were good. Power supply in the PC was smoking even though it was fed thru a ADC UPS with TVSS. Transformer in furnace was toast but the electronic circuit board was not. Hard start booster capacitor exploded and split open on the AC condensing unit and the other start/run capacitors failed. AC unit was running at the time. Hope the posters losses are similarly not complete and the electrician is issued.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #7 – August 28, 2016, 06:35:06 pm

Quote from: wolfe10 – August 28, 2016, 04:48:18 pm

If he wired it 240 VAC, you are in for a lot of expensive repairs:
A 240 VAC 30 amp outlet has:
TWO, repeat TWO hots (240 VAC between them)
One ground
May have one neutral

To check, stick your digital voltmeter (set to VAC) into the outlet. If the reading between two of them is 240, your electrician did not wire it correctly for an RV. If you only read 120 VAC, let us know and we can go from there.

Well I just talked to my electrician and sure enough as Brett posted this is how it is set up....I ran 230 volts through the coach. I guess I'm ready for an expensive lesson.

He is coming out tomorrow to change the set up....

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #8 – August 28, 2016, 06:43:21 pm

Jeff,

Sorry to hear that.

In general, anything that was "on" when you plugged in is suspect. For example, if the roof A/C's were off, they may be OK.

Unless you want to get into this yourself (we can help if you do), I would call a nearby RV repair shop. Virtually all of them have experience with this problem. If they don't, as they say "run Forrest, run".

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #9 – August 28, 2016, 06:48:31 pm

Your electrician is the one who should be in for an expensive lesson! You may also be covered by your homeowners insurance.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #10 – August 28, 2016, 06:54:07 pm

Quote from: toyman – August 28, 2016, 06:48:31 pm

Your electrician is the one who should be in for an expensive lesson! You may also be covered by your homeowners insurance.

Depends on what he was told to do. Telling a home electrician to install a 30 amp outlet by itself does not make him responsible.

Indeed, if told an RV outlet or one hot, one neutral and one ground (that is how I would phrase it) outlet, then he is responsible.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #11 – August 28, 2016, 11:09:58 pm

Jeff & Kathy,

So very sorry to hear your problem, and hopefully all is not lost.

Your experience has happened to many others, where friend or family offers to have an RV outlet installed by an professional electrician, all with the same result. Probably the fault lies in the confusing electric outlet standard allowing similar looking outlet to be powered with 120 or 240 volts.

There is probably no better example showing the value of an over-voltage protector. This is why many of us have installed the Progressive Industries EMS over/under voltage protector.

Please let us know if you are ok or what was damaged.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #12 – August 28, 2016, 11:48:39 pm

Any electrician should know code, NEMA, and be able to properly wire up a 30 amp socket. This guy calls himself an electrician but the 30a socket in my barn has "30A 125V TRAVEL TRAILER USE ONLY" molded into the plastic, as does every other 30amp socket I have ever seen! Hopefully he standa behind his mistake and fixes your rv components that were fried by the 240v.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #13 – August 29, 2016, 12:19:33 am

Whew! just checked our new installation of (2) 50/30/20 rv boxes... 30a says 110v-RV.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #14 – August 29, 2016, 02:07:04 am

Quote from: rvlooker – August 28, 2016, 11:48:39 pm

Any electrician should know code, NEMA, and be able to properly wire up a 30 amp socket. This guy calls himself an electrician but the 30a socket in my barn has "30A 125V TRAVEL TRAILER USE ONLY" molded into the plastic, as does every other 30amp socket I have ever seen! Hopefully he standa behind his mistake and fixes your rv components that were fried by the 240v.

I agree as any professional it is up to you to ask the questions of an client who may or may not know what he wants. Some data racks and older window HVAC units along with copy machines etc.still require 30 amp 120 volt outlet s. Electrician should absorb some of the costs and learn from his experience. That's how ANY business works!!!

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #15 – August 29, 2016, 07:26:14 am

I did tell him it was for an RV and he came out and I showed him my plugs. After a long conversation with him last night he has made an offer to give me back my $ and to pay for repairs that insurance won't cover. My electrician is a good guy and is the son of a co-worker. I'll be on the phone later to see what if any coverage my RV insurance or my home owners insurance will cover.

I'm hopeful that it won't be too bad since we had already unpacked and nothing was on but the fridge. The fridge was running on gas and is still working.

Thank you EVERYONE for your input! I'll keep you up to date.......

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #16 – August 29, 2016, 07:30:21 am

Quote from: danieljeff545 – August 29, 2016, 07:26:14 am

I did tell him it was for an RV and he came out and I showed him my plugs. After a long conversation with him last night he has made an offer to give me back my $ and to pay for repairs that insurance won't cover.

It's a shame that he made the mistake, but it does at least sound as if he is doing his beat to be a reasonable person. Hope all goes well with your insurance company.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #17 – August 29, 2016, 09:39:31 am

Quote from: Old phart phred – August 28, 2016, 06:23:18 pm

240 v to 120 v system may not fry everything. Lost the neutral connection to the power lines earlier this year and was in the kitchen at the time. Lights got real bright and started flashing and I pulled the plug on the $$$ fridge and deep freezer. I then ran thru the house to get to the panel to kill the power. This event lasted 5 minutes. All led light bulbs + most cfl were toast. Microwave and other appliances still plugged in were good. Power supply in the PC was smoking even though it was fed thru a ADC UPS with TVSS. Transformer in furnace was toast but the electronic circuit board was not. Hard start booster capacitor exploded and split open on the AC condensing unit and the other start/run capacitors failed. AC unit was running at the time. Hope the posters losses are similarly not complete and the electrician is issued.

Sounds like you were plugged into the 50 amp 120/240v power. When you are on this type of power and loose a neutral the phase that has the greatest load on it will have lower voltage below 120 & the phase that has the lesser load will have the greater voltage above 120.

It sounds like the problem in this thread is a 30 amp 120 Volt outlet was wired 240 volts (instead of neutral wire it was wired with the other phase wire) If you were plugged into a correctly wired 30 amp RV plug (120V) nothing would work and nothing would smoke if you lost the neutral.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #18 – August 29, 2016, 10:58:20 am

Quote from: turbojack – August 29, 2016, 09:39:31 am

Sounds like you were plugged into the 50 amp 120/240v power. When you are on this type of power and loose a neutral the phase that has the greatest load on it will have lower voltage below 120 & the phase that has the lesser load will have the greater voltage above 120.

It sounds like the problem in this thread is a 30 amp 120 Volt outlet was wired 240 volts (instead of neutral wire it was wired with the other phase wire) If you were plugged into a correctly wired 30 amp RV plug (120V) nothing would work and nothing would smoke if you lost the neutral.

100% correct.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #19 – August 29, 2016, 11:29:52 am

I did many of those repairs, In our mobile RV Service because or home electricians wiring like it was a cloths dryer 110-110-ground. Most of the time it takes out either the Inverter or converter which ever one is on the coach, Yours looks like a converter, much less money then a inverter, It probable is a 60 to 70 amp converter by on line not to much money and usually it takes out microwave oven and sometimes the transfer box, a surge Protector is a great thing it will save you if there is a problem.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #20 – August 30, 2016, 12:08:12 am

I've been following this thread because that's exactly what happened to me 3 weeks ago! Pulled into my Son's in South Dakota and hooked up to a 30 amp he just installed for me. Fried my converter and also looks to have fried my boost solenoid. My warning at first was the plug-in indicator at my 50amp receptacle warned of reverse polarity then the converter smoked.

Checked the outlet and got 240 across the lower terminals (OUCH!). It was wired for an outdoor heater, and will be wired for an RV. Still have to test the 30/50amp capability before I leave for Washington. Bad thing is, I'm in a very rural town and everything has to come through Amazon or special order.

I'm fine with all the other electronics, A/Cs and everything else. Converter replacement arrived (another like the original). My Inverter is still good. Plugged into 110 until I get a new breaker and rewire the outlet at the box.

My boost solenoid is very weathered and can't get a part number. If anyone has the number for that and the start solenoid (I'd like to replace both, since I'm there) it would be appreciated.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #21 – August 30, 2016, 12:25:17 am

Sorry that coaches are damaged.

But, a simple very inexpensive (sometimes free at Harbor Freight) meter could eliminate electrical damage.

We have Progressive Industries EMS built in, but we still never connect without first plugging a test outlet with a couple of meters & polarity checkers that several have home built.

All plugs should be considered suspect until metered, even at a 5-star resort. Wear and tear on outlets could cause problems along with improperly wired outlets.

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #22 – August 30, 2016, 09:06:15 am

We're sorry to hear about all the troubles that mis-wired 30amp receps can cause. It seems to be a not too uncommon issue.
We too, have installed the Progressive Industries EMS built in "downstream" of the ATS to protect from both the Shorepower and generator. We installed our remote readout near the FT supplied Power Monitor and monitor the readouts, especially the amps.
I know that Barry and Cindy and others have built testers to check at the pedestal, but for those that don't want to build a tester, I use the Powerpal checker to always check the pedestal before connecting. Its caught a couple of open grounds and low voltages over the years, usually caused by a over used/abused receptacle. The PowerPal is pricey, but in my mind, an important safety tool.
RV Campground Voltage Tester Protects Your RV
Good Luck, Dave A

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #23 – August 30, 2016, 12:34:11 pm

This sums it up:

Re: 110 Power problem

Reply #24 – August 30, 2016, 04:36:48 pm

Quote from: Balcanthez – August 30, 2016, 12:08:12 am

My boost solenoid is very weathered and can't get a part number. If anyone has the number for that and the start solenoid (I'd like to replace both, since I'm there) it would be appreciated.

I would recommend the Cole Hersee 24213. Shop around for the best price.

http://www.littelfuse.com/~/media/commercial-vehicle/hot-feeds/littelfuse-solenoids-200a-d625-info-sheet.pdf

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