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Topic: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft (Read 773 times) previous topic - next topic

Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

We've had our coach (1998 36ft U295 C8.3) for about 12 years now but have never towed a toad.  We are planning to retire at the end of the year and are looking for a toad.  We pretty much decided on the Jeep Grand Cherokee; however, it weighs just under 5,000 lbs.  I know that I have the capacity to tow it but my question is what can I expect from a performance perspective. 

During our retirement, we will be doing a lot long trips including trips in the Rockies.  I'm not a speed demon but don't want to crawl up hills either.  I would like to hear from anyone with a similar rig that is pulling something in this weight category that also travels in the mountains.

Thanks,
Jimmy
Jimmy

Margie and Jimmy
2003 U270 36' (one slide)
1998 U295 36' (Sold 2019)

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #1 –
My current coach is not a good comparison, but just to let you know I towed Cherokee's from 1994 to 2002 and Grand Cherokees from 2002 to 2012 with my old 1981 40' Foretravel with a 225 hp Cummins and had no problems. What you consider a crawl may be what I considered slow. The steepest grades I pulled were The 395 grade out of Bishop and the Grapevine on 5 the Grand Cherokee is a great toad and if you buy used very economically priced.
1999 40 ft. U-320 wtfe build 5563 Chuck & Lynda's "Rollin' Inn"  2030 watts solar
prev. mh's 71 GMC 5 yrs. 73 Pace Setter 1 yr. 78 Vogue 5 yrs 81 FTX 40ft all electric 18 yrs. 1996 Monaco Signature 3 yrs.
2014 Grand Cherokee Overland
Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you will die today.  James Dean

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #2 –
General rule, you use 8 hp for every 1000 lb you are towing. So a 5000 lb towed will set you back about 40 hp.
I had a 300 hp 295 with only a 2500 lb towd. [tracker] and I was down to 35 mph on many hills. You can tow anything, just depends
on how slow is too slow for you.
Jim
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #3 –
I Tow a Jeep...1997 U295 300hp CAT....Been in the Rockies, no problem......Been in the Smokies and all over the Blue Ridge Parkway....No problems
John and Stacey Smith
Motorcade NO: 11973
1997 U295 CSGI 40'..Build No. 5036     
920 Watts on the roof..CAT Power w/fuel Inj. Programmer
2021 GMC Sierra AT4 1500
EX..2015 Jeep Wrangler Sahara
Ex 1990 U280 RSAI 36'..Build No. 3638

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #4 –
We have a 40' U280 with C8.3 300hp.  Our KKK towd (Kia on a Kar Kaddy) totals about 4000 lb.  We've been back and forth over the Rockies going from TX to Oregon on two separate trips..  Saw 40 mph in 4th gear on some of the steepest "hills", but was able to maintain 50-55 mph on most of them.  I was real happy with the performance of our old coach.  If you do end up going slow up some of the hills, it just gives you more time to appreciate the scenery!
1993 U280 SE 40' WTBI, Build: 4359
C8.3 300hp, 6-Speed, Exhaust Brake
960 watts on the roof (6 x 160)
Sorento (or BOLT) on a Kar Kaddy SS
"Nature abhors a vacuum"

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #5 –
There is an additional consideration in picking your towed. I know when we went full time we dramatically increased the weight of what we carried compared to when I was still working. Your plans for more lengthy trips will require a lot more stuff in your coach and make it heavier so you may want to go for a lighter towed.

We first towed a Saturn SC1 at 2400 lbs behind our 230 hp, U225. Then when we got our 350 hp, U300 we towed a Subaru Outback at 3300 lbs. From the Subaru we went to a Chrysler Town and Country at 4400 lbs. But after our trip through Colorado last summer we have now gone back to a 2014 Subaru Outback at 3400. I felt on the high passes the Chrysler's weight put too much strain on our power train and created too much heat. Keep in mind we have a 350 hp engine and a little more torque than the Cummins equivalent. We got down to under 35 mph on Wolf Pass but did overheat near the top of the pass. It was 87 degrees outside temperature. Lighter is better.
The selected media item is not currently available.Kent Speers
Locust Grove, OK
1993 U300 SSE 40' (Restored at FOT 2009) Build 4323
720 watts Solar
6V92TA DDEC Silver Engine
2014 Subaru Outback

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #6 –
We had a 98 270 mid-entry (Dave Cobs present coach)  and towed a 2007 Chevy trailblazer, @ #5400 .  Live in Co. and never had any real problems with the passes here.  the town of Bailey has a 35 mph speed limit with a climb at the end of town (crow hill) which limited my speed to @ 40 going up but I always made it.  good coach and bullet proof motor    Norm
Norm H.
2002 U320 3602
PBDS
Build # 5941
MC# 16699


1997 Gulfstream Tourmaster, Cummins 8.3
2000 Country Coach Magna, Cat C-10
1998 Foretravel U295, Cummins 8.3

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Kent Speers –
There is an additional consideration in picking your towed. I know when we went full time we dramatically increased the weight of what we carried compared to when I was still working. Your plans for more lengthy trips will require a lot more stuff in your coach and make it heavier so you may want to go for a lighter towed.

We first towed a Saturn SC1 at 2400 lbs behind our 230 hp, U225. Then when we got our 350 hp, U300 we towed a Subaru Outback at 3300 lbs. From the Subaru we went to a Chrysler Town and Country at 4400 lbs. But after our trip through Colorado last summer we have now gone back to a 2014 Subaru Outback at 3400. I felt on the high passes the Chrysler's weight put too much strain on our power train and created too much heat. Keep in mind we have a 350 hp engine and a little more torque than the Cummins equivalent. We got down to under 35 mph on Wolf Pass but did overheat near the top of the pass. It was 87 degrees outside temperature. Lighter is better.
Kent is right about less is better, with the cat 300 and tracker toad, was running 100% load on my silverleaf most of the time at 35 to 40 mph while climbing. With my 500, about 70%, at same speed or faster. Diesels are designed for wot operation, but at high ambient  temps, you do have a chance of overheating and damaging your engine if you try to keep up with the rest of the traffic.
I may be old school, but always believed more hp and less weight was the way to go.
Jim
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #8 –
My wife has to carry everything she can think of just to go camping, so coach is pretty well loaded. I tow a 2011 Tahoe and have no problems. We  and 3 other RV's when together on a trip to and around Tennessee.  With me towing the Tahoe and the others not towing anything the gas RV could not keep up with me on the hills/mountains. The 45' Entregra with 450 hp motor could hanging with  me but he was not towing anything.
2014 ih45  (4th Foretravel owned)
 1997 36' U295 Sold in 2020, owned for 19 years
  U240 36' Sold to insurance company after melting in garage fire
    33' Foretravel on Dodge Chassis  Sold very long time ago

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #9 –
Is the real question how much toad going up or how toad can I have going down a grade. All that energy must be able to be dissipated going downhill. Retarders or transmission hose can fail, axles can fail, radiator cooling can fail.  either would require the service brakes to dissipate all the energy of the coach and toad. Just food for thought.
Old Phart Phred, EIEIO
89 GV ored 36' #3405 300 hp cat 3208 ATAAC side radiator, mountain tamer exhaust brake

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #10 –
Depending on your physhy(sp) you may be a type A or type B person..

My test to determine the power that the particular customer wanted/needed was simple.

I would draw an imaginary intersection on a yellow pad across the desk from them.

Two lanes on their side coming up to a stop sign,  they are in the right lane in a car,  there is a car in the right hand lane that they are coming up to in the sane lane, 

The left lane is empty. 

Would they change lanes and take the empty lane or stay behind the occupied lane and not even notice?

That somewhat determines the power you need IMO.

If you would switch  lanes then the c8.3 towing might be aggravating.

After driving our coach today after 52 months of working on it to maximize its potential if you are a lane changer like me then you may need to alter things a bit.

Being as the gale banks parts are no longer available for your c8.3 to pump up the power you need the other ways are what I did.

Less restrictive  exhaust for better midrange and revout power oem muffler was restrictive  killed the motor.  Maybe not as bad at 500cu in.  But a lot at 659 cu in.

10-15% power loss off the motor to run the hydraulic fan motor the way Foretravel optioned the coaches cooling system.

Your fan controller and everyone else's as far as I know is on full high speed at 180 degrees.

40 hp consumption.,

Should be at  fan idle.  Thermostat barely open at 180 yet the fan is on high.

New coaches run 205 to 208 normal btw.

So I changed my fan controller to a 199 degree from a c15 cat. 

Much less parasitic losses you cannot afford IF you are a lane changer person with an 8.3.

$700 part.

Plus the resonator.  Plus a Donaldson blue fiber air cleaner.

All together will add a lot of improvement IF you are a lane changer. 

The easy way was the banks kit.  Not available.  Same as power ups for a m11 celect plus.

So I had to work on the rest of the system.

My results are a harder pulling part throttle coach that got 9.5 rmpg at 70 plus on a flat road not towing today on the way to San Diego.

Fuel fill today was 100 gallons for 674 miles including at least ten hours of gen run time and four days of nighttime Aqua hot diesel run time.

Used to be 5mpg in the same hard use towing and stop and go la driving and mountain conditions.

Plus the lower backpressure seems to have reduced the engines temp.

Hope this helps you....
"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #11 –
Bob, think you are right, most people are right laners, personally, if I see a prevost, newell, entrega, etc., my right foot twitches and goes to the floor into the left lane. Only back off when I can get back in the right lane in front of them. Wife calls it arrested development. One would think at 70 you would be over that behavior.
Jim
Jim C.
coachfree, previous 1997, 1999, 2000, and 2003 Foretravels.

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #12 –
We have been fulltiming in our 1997 U270 36' C8.3 mechanical for over 16 years.  We have towed a V8 Grand Cherokee all these years, all over the USA & Canada and never felt we had to have more horse power.  We towed 4,600 pounds through 2011 and in 2012, we changed to a 5,600 pound new Overland, which by the way is the best auto we have ever owned, maybe the best Jeep has made.

We know more weight is not better, thought about the extra weight, but went ahead anyway as we wanted that car.  Results was noticeable, but not a problem.  Soon there-after we changed from original muffler to an Aero resonator and got back our feeling of go that we had before the 2012 Jeep. 

And some time later, even though we were running just fine, we preventatively changed our Cummins fuel lift pump, and added an electronic dash fuel pressure gauge.  The old pump must have been marginal, because we immediately felt a smoother take off and less downshifting on small hills.

We drive up hills & mountains by reading exhaust gas temp & tachometer, manually shifting when needed.  We never are full throttle and turn off cruise on hilly terrains.  It seems that 3rd gear moves us at about 30 mph and 4th gear at 40 mph.

Our original new Grand was a 2002 and our current new Grand is a 2012.  As fulltimers we only have one auto and it needs to be comfortable, pleasant, functional and roomy, so we are very well pleased that we pushed our envelope even though we "only" have 325 hp and 8.3 liters.  BTW, we travel mountains out west all the time, with no power or coolant-heating issues.

We have always got about 7+ mpg.  We recommend Blue Ox baseplate over Roadmaster and we also like our 10,000 lb rated Blue Ox towbar.

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #14 –
Can't think of a situation that we want to push to pedal to the metal.  Usually too much pedal means too much fuel, which means too much internal heat being generated, with very little or no more power.  Power to climb that pushes the pyrometer exhaust gas temp gauge above 1,000 degrees tells me we are in too high of a gear.  We gear down when we need more power.

I have noticed that at some point in acceleration, more throttle does not move the coach faster, so I figure we must just be dumping more fuel and not getting any benefit.  I could care less about wasting fuel, we care about creating more heat.

We used to have occasional high over 200 degree coolant temps, mostly when climbing long hills on hot days at higher altitudes.  We did many things like cleaning leaves from between radiator & intercooler, changing thermostat, flushing with rad cleaners, changing lift pump and fuel return valve, but the main way we don't see much over 190 on hills is by changing the way we drive.

We watch exhaust gas temps and RPM, when below 1500 time to down shift.  When seeing 900 degrees, time to let up on throttle.  We just climb slower and steady and never with full throttle.  Not that the foot does not want to press down more in the middle of the long climb.  We often find ourselves behind a truck that has similar issues and although we might be able to pass him, we stay behind getting to the top without overheating.

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #15 –
Your driving style matches your lifestyle and equipement very closely it seems. 

"Riding and rejoicing"
Bob
1997 U320 40' Mid entry, build 5132,  wtbi ce27, 4th owner
2007 Solara convertible
2 prodeco tech outlaw ss electric bikes

1095 watts solar
08 Ls 460 and a sc430
2000 Ford F-250 superduty 4x4

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #16 –
EXCELENT info Barry,,

I've never been the "drive it like you stole it" guy. We got 50,000 miles out of the rear tires on our corvette and once had a brake job done on our 93 ford diesel at 60,000, they put the same brake pads back on the front because they had very little wear ! 

 I found that it did no good to over fuel the (non turbo) 7.3 navistar diesel and if you took your foot out of it early enough, the engine alone would slow you way down. 

 I'm still sorting out how to best drive the U280 though.    I could prolly follow you ( driving style ) all day and be content.

      Thanks for sharing.
Robert and Susan
 1995 36' 280 WTBI 8.3 3060r
 1200 watts on the roof, 720 Ah of lithium's
 Build # 4637. Motorcade # 17599
        FMCA  # 451505
        18  Wrangler JLUR

Re: Towing Performance - 1998 U295 C8.3 - 36ft

Reply #17 –
Thanks for all the responses ... I really appreciate all the knowledge sharing.

Jimmy
Jimmy

Margie and Jimmy
2003 U270 36' (one slide)
1998 U295 36' (Sold 2019)