Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose

Topic: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair? (Read 1581 times) previous topic - next topic

Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

September 20, 2016, 03:40:38 pm

We replaced the Living Room awning about a month ago and realized that the anchor screws through the base of the arms were loose. Probably due to wind flapping that thing around. I would like to reseat all 4 screws and would appreciate your input regarding the best method to reseat these loose screws.

So far I have considered:
Filling with fiberglass/resin
Filling with epoxy and wood
Using a plastic anchor and securing it with epoxy

Thanks in advance. Your thoughts are appreciated.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #1 – September 20, 2016, 04:32:56 pm

Quote from: Carol & Scott – September 20, 2016, 03:40:38 pm

We replaced the Living Room awning about a month ago and realized that the anchor screws through the base of the arms were loose. Probably due to wind flapping that thing around. I would like to reseat all 4 screws and would appreciate your input regarding the best method to reseat these loose screws.

Since Xtreme is a ZipDee dealer and has removed/reinstalled their awnings for paint projects (and understand how they are attached to the sidewall of a FT as well as any differences in each model year/body style), I would call James/Greg/Rance and ask them for a recommendation.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #2 – September 20, 2016, 05:26:45 pm

Great suggestion Michelle, however, I have never done business or really talked with any of them and do not feel comfortable asking them for repair advice. Silly huh?

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #3 – September 20, 2016, 05:28:15 pm

They are always happy to help out at least that is what I have found.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #4 – September 20, 2016, 06:17:28 pm

Filling holes with steel wool soaked in epoxy works really well for things coming loose

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #5 – September 20, 2016, 06:21:34 pm

Not knowing where you are, but if there is an Airstream outlet around, they would know. They use Zip Dees, as well.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #6 – September 20, 2016, 06:38:21 pm

Quote from: Carol & Scott – September 20, 2016, 05:26:45 pm

Great suggestion Michelle, however, I have never done business or really talked with any of them and do not feel comfortable asking them for repair advice.

Well, I guess if you are "Club Plus" you could put a query into Biscuit through James Triana at FOT. Someone at MOT might also be able to answer your question as well if that's an option. My reasoning for calling Xtreme is specifically that they are a Zip Dee dealer as well as being familiar with the physical structure of the coach.

You could also try Jimmy (I think that's his name) at Zip Dee.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #7 – September 20, 2016, 06:54:05 pm

Carol & Scott,

Susan & I are just finishing a visit to Xtreme. I'd second Michelle's suggestion: call Rance.

After completing work on our roof that resulted from the May 2016 hailstorm, Rance took EXTRA time at the end of his day to do a thorough walkthrough with Susan — who had several questions about items that were not on our work-list for this visit.

I'll put kudos and thanks elsewhere on the Forum. Probably "Foretravel Discussions" is the proper place; I'll check. But your question is the type thing Susan was asking about. Rance was knowledgeable, pleasant, a total gentleman, and saved us from making a couple of mistakes we'd have made, if Susan hadn't asked.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #8 – September 20, 2016, 06:57:38 pm

My thought, as well. Could be something so simple as an oversized screw. Any "band-aid" repairs could cause you to kick yourself should those arms have to come off.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #9 – September 20, 2016, 07:29:05 pm

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.

I will contact Biscuit at FOT and see what he says. Yes we have the "Plus" level membership.

Have also found a number of posts on Marine web sites that describe various solutions. One also mentioned filling hole with 5200 then drilling pilot holes for the screws. Of Course the holes must be cleaned out with a drill bit or something like that then clean out with acetone then fill with epoxy/fiberglas mix. The consistency should be like lube oil. Some have mentioned using a hypodermic needle to get to the bottom of the hole or plugging it with a putty substance.

We shall see.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #10 – September 20, 2016, 07:59:29 pm

I just fixed my rear awning anchor bolts by using a product called MR GRIP by Woodmates. No. 2498 is the number on the blister card. It is for wood, plastic, and metal.
Steel strips 7/8" wide x 2" long and has a raised surface full of tiny points. Looks a lot like a cabbage grater on a miniaturized scale.
It is a stripped screw hole repair kit. I cut a piece into 1/8 wide strips, inserted two pieces 180 degrees apart and then screwed the anchor bolts back in. Pulled in tight.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #11 – September 20, 2016, 08:02:45 pm

Hmmm,. Never heard of that one before. Did you use silicone to keep water out?

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #12 – September 20, 2016, 08:09:12 pm

What I would do if it were me (take that for what it is worth

), would be to drill the hole out to fit a ¼" Rivenut, coat the outside of the rivenut with a sparing amount of 3M 5200 (making sure that none got in the threaded portion of the rivenut), and then carefully expand the rivenut (not overdoing it and cracking the fiberglass... just takes a bit of feel to know when it is right) and then use ¼-20 stainless oval head screws with a dab of silicone or other sealant that can easily be broken loose. I did something similar installing a new passenger side Ramco mirror, except that I used 5/16-18 screws to fasten. Holds very securely and is easy to remove and reinstall as needed.
Otherwise, filling in the old screw hole with some kind of epoxy putty (such as PC-11) and re-drilling is also a decent option.
Don

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #13 – September 20, 2016, 10:04:32 pm

It would surprise me if Foretravel did not have a backing ?steel plate? ?wood insert? etc to back up the awning mounting.

Doesn't make sense to trust the thing FG skin with that load.

I have never had an issue with one, so have no first hand knowledge of the construction.

Has anyone really "explored/probed" the hole or asked James Triana or someone at Xtreme "how is it built"?

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #14 – September 20, 2016, 10:20:16 pm

Scott, the 3M 5200 will not provide a solid anchor point. Use a good quality stud finder or a rare earth magnet to see if the arm mounts are where the steel framing is located. If both screws go into steel you could try a screw that is one size bigger. A rivnut will be hard if the edge of the steel tubing is in the way. It would be an OK choice if the mount just screws into fiberglass. But the rivnut flange will hold the base off the FG surface. If it is just into a blind FG location my guess is that Rance would open the hole a bit and push in bunch of fiberglass strands embedded in resin into the hole and let it cure. You can trim it flush once it start to set up and is firm before it is fully cured. Sealant needs to go into the predrilled hole and under the base when you screw it on.

Added...
Thinking about this some more ... I would still cram lots of fiberglass strands (from mat, chop or woven material) and resin into the enlarged hole until it is full and pressed into the underlying foam about as far as the screws will go in. Trim off any sticking out when the resin has begun to firm up to but not a hard consistency using a razor blade. Put sealant on the back of the mounting plate and using sharp screws and a hand screw driver, screw the plate on. The screws will deform the still soft resin for a strong screw bearing surface rather than fracturing the somewhat brittle cured resin (even with a pilot hole).

This is something one can do themselves without special tools or equipment and the mounting bracket will cover the repair.

Or you may choose to do it another way. Many good ideas.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #15 – September 20, 2016, 10:44:53 pm

I will contact FOT tomorrow and find out how the thing is built and pull a screw and do some probing.

I'll report back the findings.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #16 – September 20, 2016, 11:20:38 pm

Both arm mounts went south on my living room awning. I could not find steel or anything like it probing the hole. What I did find was approx. the first 1/2 inch from the surface seemed to be where all the holding integrity was, and the large screw had more or less removed any holding ability in that area; someone had previously put some caulking in it and hoped it would hold.

Nothing but foam past the first 1/2 inch. I used an epoxy and hardwood "toothpicks" to fill the hole. Three applications until the hole and as much as possible around the hole in its entire length was saturated. Pushed it upward in the foam as well.

Drilled new holes, coated the screw with 5200 and on the underside of the mounting plate. Took a number of days to ensure epoxy had set. Secured the awning with rope and tent pegs while the zip dee had no arms. Used foam pipe insulation to stop the hanging arms from whacking the paint if a wind came up.

Conclusion; screws and mount can withstand me pulling hard. The design puts a leveraged pull on the mounts unless the awning is pulled all the way out and tied. Zip Dee may have prevented the mounts "working" loose with the use of two tie downs instead of only one in the middle, which permits one end of the awning to be blown up and in while the holding one is left in a twisting potential. I thought those mounts would have been screwed into the metal or reinforced corners of the slide but no such luck.

Looking forward to what FOT has to say.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #17 – September 21, 2016, 12:14:53 am

I had asked Rance and Greg about the awning support arm base being anchored in the steel framing and was surprised to hear that it was not necessarily so... The framing is 1.5" 18 gauge square tubing and I don't remember the screw spacing on the base plate of the awning arm support base, but I think it might be dicey to get all the screws solidly in the framing. However, if one or more of the screws were into the steel framing, that is no guarantee of a solid hold. The outer fiberglass of the wall consists of about 1/16" of Gelcoat and fiberglass laminated to rigid foam insulation. It doesn't seem like a lot to bear the stress of an awning arm mount (or of the door assist handle for that matter), but it seems to do the job. Our is still holding firm, even after being severely wind tested more than once. My take on it is, as long as there is no delamination of the fiberglass from the rigid foam substrate, the fiberglass skin is remarkably strong. The "Foretravel Sandwich" is very rigid and durable, as long as it is protect from water intrusion. I agree with Brett, that its seems as if Foretravel would have glassed in some marine plywood in that area or even steel plate, but I haven't found evidence of that in the walls of our coach, and my conversations with Rance and Greg from Xtreme lead me to believe that there isn't any. The fact that these things stand the test of time shows that Foretrave'ls methods have been adequate at the least (there are always exceptions) and in most cases, superior. I did tests with Rivenuts in plugs I drilled in the endcap for round LED turn signal lights, and found it to be very strong. As I was able to see both sides of the plug, I was able to judge how much expansion was appropriate. The endcaps have thicker laid up fiberglass of course, but I think that they will work well on the wall skin as well. Of course, aluminum would be the appropriate rivenut material for this application. I feel sure Rance's approach would be to grind out material around the holes, apply woven roving or glass fibers and resin, fresh gelcoat as well, and start with a fresh hole. At that point, it is as it was new and that is just how Xtreme does things. That is beyond my present skills and thus another approach would be my choice, but one that I feel would serve the purpose and likely be stronger than the original if properly done. Attached is a picture of the "Foretravel sandwich" That I cut to install the Splendide vent. The top of the picture is the outside wall skin.
Don

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #18 – September 21, 2016, 05:42:59 pm

Interesting that Don wouldn't recommend removing all six tires, the fuel tank and the windows while you had the tools out. Just that his projects seem to get so detailed and complicated. Sorry, I'm being silly

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #19 – September 21, 2016, 06:28:01 pm

Scott, attached is the Mr Grip blister pics of the front & back and a single piece along the pkg.
These worked so well on one screw that I did the other one after finishing the first bolt.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #20 – September 21, 2016, 06:31:40 pm

Thanx. Hadn't seen those before.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #21 – September 21, 2016, 06:39:55 pm

I would have mentioned that Larry, except that I figured it was a given...

Quote from: lgshoup – September 21, 2016, 05:42:59 pm

Interesting that Don wouldn't recommend removing all six tires, the fuel tank and the windows while you had the tools out. Just that his projects seem to get so detailed and complicated. Sorry, I'm being silly

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #22 – September 21, 2016, 06:53:04 pm

How about that VHB tape and oversized stainless pop rivets. The tape alone holds on solar panels.

You forgot that Don might also suggest a John H style pit.
Just kidding, Don. You just set the bar pretty high for all of us, which is good.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #23 – September 21, 2016, 09:26:49 pm

Called FOT this AM, explained the problem to Jeremy Rocha and was told that he would check with a couple of guys on the floor and get back to me. Have not heard back yet. I did not call James T. The last two times I tried to contact him I got no return call. Yes we are Premium members.

A Newell is parked next to us and he had the same problem. His solution wa to use aluminum rivets. Of Course his skin is also aluminum. Newell wanted to attach aluminum squares to the side of his slide and attach the mounting brackets to that. He didn't like that idea either.

I did pick up a fiberglass repair kit from West Marine today.

Re: Zip Dee living room awning anchor screws loose - How to repair?

Reply #24 – September 21, 2016, 10:48:38 pm

Quote from: Don & Tys (AKA acousticart) – September 21, 2016, 12:14:53 am

... I agree with Brett, that its seems as if Foretravel would have glassed in some marine plywood in that area or even steel plate, but I haven't found evidence of that in the walls of our coach, and my conversations with Rance and Greg from Xtreme lead me to believe that there isn't any...

At Country Coach they placed very thin (like 24 gauge) galvanized steel sheets in the wall lamination between the foam core and fiberglass skin where window awnings screw in. I was told it holds the screws quite well. For the large patio awnings (the motorized kind that cantilever out from the top and don't have any arms that reach down) there was a much more stout system of aluminum supports that were built into the roof and wall - but that's a whole different system compared to the Zip Dee patio awnings.

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