Foretravel vs Newell

Topic: Foretravel vs Newell (Read 4957 times) previous topic - next topic

Foretravel vs Newell

September 24, 2016, 01:47:43 am

I'm still investigating DP's and have found that in 100k - 200k price range I can buy an older model Newell in the same price range as a later model Foretravel. Which would be the better deal? I'm not famiar enough with either brands to make an intelligent choice. Are maintenance costs more extreme on one over the other? I think I would want a lifting tag axle and I'm not sure Newell offers it. Would anyone like to give an opinion or possibly some advice? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #1 – September 24, 2016, 02:24:30 am

Grandpa, Great question! I love the early-on Newell designs. I'll watch the responses with interest from those who own and drive them. Floor it. P

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #2 – September 24, 2016, 07:07:35 am

[moved from Classifieds since this is not a classified ad - Michelle]

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #3 – September 24, 2016, 07:09:31 am

Quote from: Grandpa – September 24, 2016, 01:47:43 am

I'm still investigating DP's and have found that in 100k - 200k price range I can buy an older model Newell in the same price range as a later model Foretravel.

If you haven't already joined, we highly recommend Newell Gurus for their forum to learn more about Newell. Get both sides of the aisle; here on Foreforums the membership will be biased towards FT and mostly have knowledge about FT, not as in-depth about Newell, and you won't get a complete picture

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #4 – September 24, 2016, 08:55:11 am

Living A 105 miles from Newell we have toured the factory and looked at them very closely. The main big difference is that the Newell is a metal coach and FT is fiberglass coach. Can't go wrong with either. Newell's are generally a heavier.

Roy

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #5 – September 24, 2016, 10:21:33 am

If you camp from power pole to power pole and/or do not mind running the gen always the aluminum skinned Newell is a choice.

Extremely complicated hydraulic systems on the Newell. My guru buddy greatly adds to his income when they come in.

He is one of the few people who can and have maintained older Newells. He is in san clemente, ca.

The foretravel is totally different construction with vacuum bonded steel framed fiberglass skinned walls.

Long ago at a FMCA rally in Minot, North Dakota a hailstorm hit hard enough to kill dogs outside of coaches and destroy 1,700 airstream trailers our of 4,400 attendees.

All the aluminum topped prevosts and newells were severely damaged.

The foretravel's lost a/c and refer and vent covers. A few broken windshields. No major body damage.

After 33 years on and off in the highline Rv biz and being in the west coast area and preferring not to have to camp from power pedestal to power pedestal or have to run the gen continuously I am typing this from our 40' unihome.

The Newell is too large and heavy and tender for our style of use and the dark paint sucks in heat too much.

Many times out old white coach fully closed up in storage maintains outside temp inside. No fan, a/c or windows open.

The Newell being painted metal will need the gen on shortly after dawn in any other than cool winter weather.

So will a dark painted foretravel just not as soon.

Most rv'ers exoect to run their gen or need hookups every day.

If that's ok and the heavier maintenance does not bother you both are good coaches.

Watching my old guru buddy service all brands really reinforces our old foretravel choice.

But not as pretty as a Newell normally.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #6 – September 24, 2016, 10:53:52 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – September 24, 2016, 10:21:33 am

If you camp from power pole to power pole and/or do not mind running the gen always the aluminum skinned Newell is a choice.

Extremely complicated hydraulic systems on the Newell. My guru buddy greatly adds to his income when they come in.

He is one of the few people who can and have maintained older Newells. He is in san clemente, ca.

The foretravel is totally different construction with vacuum bonded steel framed fiberglass skinned walls.

Long ago at a FMCA rally in Minot, North Dakota a hailstorm hit hard enough to kill dogs outside of coaches and destroy 1,700 airstream trailers our of 4,400 attendees.

Bob, have had 2 Foretravels, 99 320 and a 97 295. Now have a 95 Newell. Wanted a 45 ft coach and could not afford a IH.
Time for you to get a new guru. Hyd system and air/leveling system is the same in my Newell as it was on the Fortravels.
My Newell has 6 8d batteries [from the factory] and same electrical load as a Foretravel, so is actually better for dry camping.
My white Newell is actually much easier to cool and keep cool than either of my Foretravels. Maintenance is the same for either coach. A diesel eng is a diesel engine.
Newell are generally heavier because they often have much bigger tanks, [mine holds 320 gals fuel, 175 gal of water, and 180 gals
gray/ black water]. Interiors are often a laminate on 3/4 wood panels, which is very heavy.
The Newell does have aluminum skin that is spray foamed and backed by wood on a steel frame
Newell is different than Foretravel is some ways but both are heads above any other motorhome [except maybe some prevost conversions].
Jim

[repaired quote formatting - Michelle]

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #7 – September 24, 2016, 11:27:30 am

Thanks for the info. Your white Newell helps the heat issue greatly. Rare.

The hydraulic stuff reference was from watching him and another pro trying to find which solenoid was bad in controlling a rear slide out room in a later Newell that had 13 solenoid in the bay under the drivers window and no diagram from Newell of which one controlled which function. They had Rueben on the phone while I was standing there and he has no idea either. Unit was sold for $140k and the seller wanted the slides to work correctly so they sent it to my gurus adjacient biz for them to fix as he thought my buddy was too expensive.

Meaning it required a lot of service. Both shops have the same hourly rate..

Not a spray foam fan. Cornerstone went to a vapor barrier type fiberglass mat insulation in the tv video.

Unless their was a way to do it without formaldehyde?

Foretravel used low emission carpet, paneling and block foam in the walls.

Only test I know

I ithink the later Newells went to aluminum framing if not mistaken and non laminated walls with hung skins.

Similar to cornerstone coaches.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #8 – September 24, 2016, 12:04:42 pm

Newells are nice. They are just massive and heavy. I'd definietly consider one if I was doing that style of RV life. But the lower height and lighter FT (and shorter) allows for better federal and state park access.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #9 – September 24, 2016, 12:12:01 pm

Yes, Newell's can be very complicated. Every coach is made exactly to the owners specs, so it is difficult to have a standard wiring diagram. Nice thing is Newell's 24/7 phone support. Once called them at 0700 on a sunday morning with a electrical problem.
Left a message with the switchboard and a electrical tech called me back 10 minutes later, and walked me through the problem.
Jim

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #10 – September 24, 2016, 12:37:46 pm

Join NewellGurus.com. That will be the best place to get accurate information on Newell. Numerous owners with older Newell's can provide the information you need to make an informed buying decision. With a Newell you will get better customer service. A better engineered and manufactured coach with the Newell. Somebody has already mentioned the 24 hour emergency hot line.
I have owned an 04 U320 and a 2012 IH 45. I will never buy another Foretravel. Very poor customer service and lack of attention to detail on service.
Buy the Newell and you will not have buyer's remorse.

Reese

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #11 – September 24, 2016, 08:30:20 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – September 24, 2016, 11:27:30 am

Thanks for the info. Your white Newell helps the heat issue greatly. Rare.

Last white Foretravel was, what, a 2003 U270? I've seen lots of photos of white Newells of the same era, virtually anything of that same 2003 era and newer. So not that rare, and about the same as a Foretravel in the same years.

Quote from: Caflashbob – September 24, 2016, 11:27:30 am

The hydraulic stuff reference was from watching him and another pro trying to find which solenoid was bad in controlling a rear slide out room in a later Newell that had 13 solenoid in the bay under the drivers window and no diagram from Newell of which one controlled which function. Unit was sold for $140k

Later model Newell, $140k? The descriptors "later model" and "sold for $140k" don't match up. Sounds like maybe a late 1990's coach or barely a 2000's one.

Newells are good coaches, just as Foretravels are. This site has good FT info and good people, newellgurus.com has good Newell info and good people.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #12 – September 24, 2016, 09:04:42 pm

Wow! This is a great thread following a great question. My enthusiasm for this topic equals Old Knucklehead in the beginning of this thread.

We spent 4 years searching for the right coach for us, and for most of that time, we were considering older model Newells. We love Newells. If we move on from our current coach - a 40' 1997 U320 - a Newell is a strong possibility. You are definitely on the right track.

A few good differences pointed out above - weight differences; height differences; Newells are all custom so each coach is completely different when working on them. One thing I learned from Stuart at MOT is when you own a 40 year old plane and something breaks, you are going to buy a part for a brand new plane with brand new plane part prices. I thought this was an invaluable lesson. Newells have many more unique and specialized parts with more things that could potentially go wrong, and just because you are in a coach that is early 2000's, you are paying the same price for those parts, just like you had a new 2016 custom model. Maybe it is just me, but I thought this was a very interesting tidbit to mull over. Foretravel parts are relatively easier to come by, and they are a little easier to work on than a Newell. My opinion solely.

As far as owners are concerned, we have met many Newell owners, and each and every one of them are the most lovely, open, generous hearted and warm people you could meet. Just like fellow Foretravelers.

The Newell Guru website, as well as the old New Classic website, are very good resources from which to learn and meet owners. You have already made the first step in learning about Foretravels and the Foretravel community by posting here on this forum.

Good job!! You are on the right track, and what a fun learning process this is.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #13 – September 24, 2016, 09:24:16 pm

sorry if my info was not correct.

All the older high line coaches had block foam walls, fiberglass glass skinned, vacuum bonded non dark painted structure walls.

In a highly competitive dog eat dog every brand ended up the same.

No spray in foam, no hung walls,

Buddy went on and on when I called him now.

No RVIA sticker. Ever. No propane and electrical verification. No doh sticker.. old tire company. Must keep union guys.

Buddy was vogues quality control manager.

Valves and relays exposed in bays. No doors.

Ifs drives poorly.

140 psi on drivers sidewall for tires. 130 on tires.

2001. $140k.

This is 25% of what he said, he was their rep,

Shimmed cabinets to sidewalls.

Romex to 12v primary wire. Some 110 v to small rockers switches. He blew up quite a few test probes because of it.

He rates foretravel four times the coach.

Recessed window in slide delaminates in rain.

Dishwashers were plumbed into the cold side. Took 4 hours electrically to heat the water to nsf standards, was designed for 130-160 input.

VBS roof adhesion. No weld or rivets. No roof structure under roof airs. Number two gauge wire to dash for power. Long bolt through all the round terminal ground wire ends then a 8 gauge wire to a frame area from the bolt

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #14 – September 24, 2016, 10:17:55 pm

Quote from: Caflashbob – September 24, 2016, 09:24:16 pm

sorry if my info was not correct.

All the older high line coaches had block foam walls, fiberglass glass skinned, vacuum bonded non dark painted structure walls.

In a highly competitive dog eat dog every brand ended up the same.

No spray in foam, no hung walls,

Buddy went on and on when I called him now.

No RVIA sticker. Ever. No propane and electrical verification. No doh sticker.. old tire company. Must keep union guys.

Buddy was vogues quality control manager.

Valves and relays exposed in bays. No doors.

Ifs drives poorly.

140 psi on drivers sidewall for tires. 130 on tires.

2001. $140k.

This is 25% of what he said, he was their rep,

Shimmed cabinets to sidewalls.

Romex to 12v primary wire. Some 110 v to small rockers switches. He blew up quite a few test probes because of it.

He rates foretravel four times the coach.

Recessed window in slide delaminates in rain.

Dishwashers were plumbed into the cold side. Took 4 hours electrically to heat the water to nsf standards, was designed for 130-160 input.

VBS roof adhesion. No weld or rivets. No roof structure under roof airs. Number two gauge wire to dash for power. Long bolt through all the round terminal ground wire ends then a 8 gauge wire to a frame area from the bolt

Bob, sure you are trying to say something, but I have no idea of what you are trying to say.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #15 – September 24, 2016, 11:25:15 pm

My buddy was the local Newell rep and repairs them to this day. The comments I posted were a small percentage of the design and serviceability issues he mentioned.

When I texted him to find out the year of the one I menrioned had rear slide room issues he called me instead.

We were the bluebird sales guys together in 1989.

When I mentioned the discussion about the differences being discussed he volunteered the info I posted.

When I asked if the slide was ever fixed correctly by the adjoining service place he said no.

If you held the button down to bring the room in it would bottom out in then unlock.

If you released the button at exactly the right moment it stayed locked.

A conversation with bill might be informative if you really want to know about the coaches.

He agreed about the pretty. They look nice.

He mentioned a Larry Dunkle who owns a large biz moving heavy manufacturing and machining centers had his Newell stop on the la freeways four times causing major traffic jams.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #16 – September 25, 2016, 12:17:14 am

Thanks to all for your informative posts. I'm very interested in hearing multiple opinions and experiences from all who are willing to share. I am concerned about unexpected expensive repairs. I know issues will continually arise, but I'm interested in any common expensive problems that I need to be aware of that only experience reveals.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #17 – September 25, 2016, 12:20:51 am

Quote from: Caflashbob – September 24, 2016, 11:25:15 pm

My buddy was the local Newell rep and repairs them to this day. The comments I posted were a small percentage of the design and serviceability issues he mentioned.

When I texted him to find out the year of the one I menrioned had rear slide room issues he called me instead.

We were the bluebird sales guys together in 1989.

When I mentioned the discussion about the differences being discussed he volunteered the info I posted.

When I asked if the slide was ever fixed correctly by the adjoining service place he said no.

If you held the button down to bring the room in it would bottom out in then unlock.

If you released the button at exactly the right moment it stayed locked.

A conversation with bill might be informative if you really want to know about the coaches.

He agreed about the pretty. They look nice.

He mentioned a Larry Dunkle who owns a large biz moving heavy manufacturing and machining centers had his Newell stop on the la freeways four times causing major traffic jams.

Bob, this is degrading into a Ford vs Chevy thing. Both brands have good points and bad points. Try to be more open minded. Foretravels are great for some people, Newell's are great for others. I was very happy with my Foretravels, and am now happy with my Newell. As PT Barnum said "You pays your monies, and you takes your chances"
Jim

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #18 – September 25, 2016, 12:54:58 am

We hear that factory wiring diagrams are non-existent to new & old Newell owners, and this causes quite a few problems.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #19 – September 25, 2016, 01:08:43 am

Yes, sometimes a problem. Newell saying 'No two coaches alike'. Problem is every Newell is custom made and Newell has never made a wiring diagram for one single coach because of it. Seems many Newell owners are technically inclined. The ones that are not, pay the factory to do it for them. Newell Guru forums are a good resource for do it yourself owners.
Read someplace that 75% of of Nascar drivers have Newells, so good mechanics are not a problem for them.
Jim

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #20 – September 25, 2016, 01:48:35 am

Mike Rodgers at MOT a while back said he was getting comfortable working on Newels, but he did confirm (as I recall anyway) that they did not have wiring diagrams, which would complicate troubleshooting and repair.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #21 – September 25, 2016, 02:01:19 am

Grandpa.....I have only now opened this thread as I thought nothing relevant for me to add or contribute because I have never had a Newell. I do have two friends with 1985 and 1989 Newells and they are outstanding coaches. But if you were to look at that vintage, let me know and I can give you very relevant info. The 1989 owner had a FT with a slide, went to the Newell after sold the FT when thought was thru with RVing. Now misses the FT.

This is the relevant info I can give you with me never owning one.....

a. The Newell is generally very very heavy and a sturdy machine. It is more expensive to repair than the FT, in general, and important to some given budget restraints. It does appear to me that for any given year back in the 1998 - 2003 range you see more depreciation than in the FT (I may be wrong, just seems that way....cheaper to buy the Newell versus the original price. True???)

b. Most importantly....if a first coach.....as I was visiting with a prospective buyer at a local dealer....the head business manager told me, do not let them buy a Newell as a first motorhome. It is too complicated. (I believe that turned out to be good advice, several technical talks have subsequently agreed, said the same)

Those Newells though seem massive, chrome big ole DD, huge wheels....a go anywhere kinda feel, look. I like a bit less the more sterile appearance of most all the interiors I have seen but this is just personal feeling.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #22 – September 25, 2016, 02:27:24 am

My younger brother just recently purchased a 2001 Newell from MOT. It is his first motorhome. It is very complicated. Thank goodness that my older brother, who owns a Monaco Signature, is helping him with the learning curve. The Monaco has the same DD series 60 engine and HWH hydraulic systems.
Larry

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #23 – September 25, 2016, 07:45:39 am

Can someone add some detail to how Foretravel builds their walls and ceiling. I see on their website they use a steel frame but I am not clear on the actual construction.

Re: Foretravel vs Newell

Reply #24 – September 25, 2016, 08:37:04 am

My buddy mentions that the NASCAR guys get their Newells on lease. They call them their two year motorhome as the swap them out.

All learned to carry bottle jacks to jack up the coach in places so the rooms can go in.

You really need to talk to bill park Rv and marine.

I have no axe the grind here just happen to be his old friend and we enjoy picking apart rv's.

Bluebird guys refer their friends to him. The local prevost resale place uses him for pdi's and walk throughs.

He has a constant stream of high line coaches in his shop for twenty years.

Remember about the no RVIA sticker. No DOH sticker.

Careful on the small rocker switches as some are straight 110v. Not to a relay. He said to warn you about that.

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